2012 NSW soo side..

[Joker's Wild]

So they have won 1 game out of how many by playing a 2nd rower on Inglis. Yep, very successful strike rate indeed

Lewis and Aubo make good stats by playing as second rowers inside specialist centres mate and doing so against club sides, both vastly different kettles of fish when it comes to playing in the centres at SOO level against the likes og GI. Neither of them have the speed nor the level of footwork that Lawrence, Jennings or Hayne have. Sacrificing all that for someone who may be able to stop GI, and that is a big maybe, is detrimental to the NSW strike power outwide

 

[jbl31649]

I simple like the idea of Hayne and Uate making a bit of a combination. Both have size and speed. Hayne could also moving on the last for any long distance kicking. He was putting up some great high kicks last year for Para.

I really do think that we can not pick a team based on what QLD is doing. We pick our best players. Hayne is one of those, so has to be wearing sky blue, but I don't think we need him at fullback.

Stewart and Dugan have to be the guys considered for fullback. As for moving Hayne to 5/8, if we had a capable and creative half that would be fine, but we don't really.

As for the left side its between Gordon, Jennings and Lawerance for the wing/centre roles. I like Gordon in the side because he also provides a good goal kicking boot. We have lost games over the last couple of years, some that could have been won on conversions. Every point matters in Origin.

Having a Gordon/Jennings left side could help because they play there at club level and know each other better.

I also think T-Rex should only be consider if we are 2 up in the series. He still has to build his fitness as a forward, so by the time game 3 comes around he would have had a season and a half out of second row.

Its still the props that are the real issue. I think Tariq Simms could really provide a utility role, playing second row or prop during matches.

8. TLL
10.Gallen
11. Scott
12. Watmough
13. Lewis
14. Bird
15. G.Stewart
16. Mannah
17. Galloway/T.Simms

18. T-Rex

 

[Pazza]

I simple like the idea of Hayne and Uate making a bit of a combination. Both have size and speed. Hayne could also moving on the last for any long distance kicking. He was putting up some great high kicks last year for Para.

I really do think that we can not pick a team based on what QLD is doing. We pick our best players. Hayne is one of those, so has to be wearing sky blue, but I don't think we need him at fullback.

Stewart and Dugan have to be the guys considered for fullback. As for moving Hayne to 5/8, if we had a capable and creative half that would be fine, but we don't really.

As for the left side its between Gordon, Jennings and Lawerance for the wing/centre roles. I like Gordon in the side because he also provides a good goal kicking boot. We have lost games over the last couple of years, some that could have been won on conversions. Every point matters in Origin.

Having a Gordon/Jennings left side could help because they play there at club level and know each other better.

I also think T-Rex should only be consider if we are 2 up in the series. He still has to build his fitness as a forward, so by the time game 3 comes around he would have had a season and a half out of second row.

Its still the props that are the real issue. I think Tariq Simms could really provide a utility role, playing second row or prop during matches.

8. TLL
10.Gallen
11. Scott
12. Watmough
13. Lewis
14. Bird
15. G.Stewart
16. Mannah
17. Galloway/T.Simms

18. T-Rex

Love that pack but put Tony Williams into the #17, he has been in FG since 08, played in big games, played rep footy and has the size and physicality to match it with these QLD monsters. I really would rather Williams play 15 mins off the bench than Merrin or Galloway.

 

[Raider_69]

Ive said it once, and ill say it 100 more times... NSW is kidding themselves if they dont seriously consider starting Fensom at lock. He's the state's best lock forward outside of P.Gallen, who will rightfully play prop

 

[jbl31649]

Love that pack but put Tony Williams into the #17, he has been in FG since 08, played in big games, played rep footy and has the size and physicality to match it with these QLD monsters. I really would rather Williams play 15 mins off the bench than Merrin or Galloway.

I think with time, he'll be capable of playing more than 15mins. Last year he personally admitted that being in the forwards made him get more involved.

He just needs to get more aggressive earlier in a match. He was good last year running support play of G.Stewart and he has the ability of a good offload himself.

 

[RWB]

So they have won 1 game out of how many by playing a 2nd rower on Inglis. Yep, very successful strike rate indeed

Your argument was New Zealand playing second rowers in the centres had failed for them, I disagreed and used the example of them winning two big competitions with Mannering in the centres (A second rower much like Lewis & Aubusson who spent a lot of his early carrier in the centres).

Maybe you could actually back up your point rather than trying to attack the credibility of my proof.

Lewis and Aubo make good stats by playing as second rowers inside specialist centres mate and doing so against club sides, both vastly different kettles of fish when it comes to playing in the centres at SOO level against the likes og GI. Neither of them have the speed nor the level of footwork that Lawrence, Jennings or Hayne have. Sacrificing all that for someone who may be able to stop GI, and that is a big maybe, is detrimental to the NSW strike power outwide

Lewis has been playing at lock for years now, he does not "play inside specialist centres". Nor does he need anyone to make him look good, he's arguably the best ball playing backrower in the game and his line running speaks for itself.

Not really sure how Aubusson playing inside Shaun Kenny-Dowall allows him to make so many linebreaks either. Could you please explain? It could explain his try assists but I don't see the relevance in his ability to break the line? It's also worth mentioning that he averages just as many linebreaks playing on the left as he does on the right so quality of centre arguably has little affect on him.

I do agree strongly that club level and SOO level are a totally different kettle of fish and that it should be taken into consideration when picking players, especially when put up against Inglis. But none of Hayne, Jennings or Lawrence have proven anything against Inglis at SOO level. In picking our right centre performances at origin level have very little relevance as unfortunately no one (bar Gasnier in one game) has had any success up against Inglis.

 

[RWB]

Ive said it once, and ill say it 100 more times... NSW is kidding themselves if they dont seriously consider starting Fensom at lock. He's the state's best lock forward outside of P.Gallen, who will rightfully play prop

Agreed 100%, it's a shame he didn't make the emerging squad because based on that he's probably no hope of getting picked this series. He'd be my first pick at lock.

 

[Joker's Wild]

RWB, go and reread my post. I said playing 2nd rowers to try and counter Inglis and Hodges had failed for both NZ and NSW. Seeing as they have won once out of how many games when Aust had Inglis in the centres, I fail to see where my statement was wrong.

Playing 2nd row and being able to make line breaks out wide with support outside you, as opposed to having to make them running wider and marking up 1-1 against faster opposition are vastly different. Not to mention the decision making requirements in defence are much different too.

Id rather a player who is used to attacking and defending out wide, not some back rower who has chalked up some line breaks running at halfbacks at club level. Its been tried before and failed.

 

[Pazza]

Ive said it once, and ill say it 100 more times... NSW is kidding themselves if they dont seriously consider starting Fensom at lock. He's the state's best lock forward outside of P.Gallen, who will rightfully play prop

lol

Fensom has a long way to go before he plays for the blues! Back row is our strongest position and i can't see Fensom not only displacing the incumbents but also getting past T rex and Sims.

 

[Spanner in the works]

Ive said it once, and ill say it 100 more times... NSW is kidding themselves if they dont seriously consider starting Fensom at lock. He's the state's best lock forward outside of P.Gallen, who will rightfully play prop

Agreed 100%, it's a shame he didn't make the emerging squad because based on that he's probably no hope of getting picked this series. He'd be my first pick at lock.

He's my first pick. If he were a Queenslander, he would be their starting lock. Absolutely ridiculous that NSW doesn't seem to consider him.

 

[umina panther]

Lewis > Fensom
stop f**king Luke around and give him his rightful spot!

 

[RWB]

RWB, go and reread my post. I said playing 2nd rowers to try and counter Inglis and Hodges had failed for both NZ and NSW. Seeing as they have won once out of how many games when Aust had Inglis in the centres, I fail to see where my statement was wrong.

You said ‘the likes of Inglis and Hodges’, I just assumed you meant Inglis, Hodges and similar great attacking players such as Folau or Tonga… my bad.

In which case to my recollection that’s the only time Mannering was ever put up against Inglis, so to answer your continual question one out of one, 100%. Not that I think winning percentages is a great way to measure the success of any individual’s performance, it’s almost irrelevant afaic.

NSW have tried it once and failed, with Beau Scott. Scott though did not spend anywhere near the amount of games as Lewis & Aubusson in the centres and has nowhere near the potency of either, not to mention technically a totally different defender. Lewis & Aubusson both have great classic techniques and tackle low (exactly how you need to tackle Inglis), Scott’s first contact is often very high around the ball… there’s not many players to are going to match the upper body strength of Greg Inglis. This is not a criticism of Scott who I thought was great this year but he’s a different player and playing centre against Inglis was outside his limitations.

Playing 2nd row and being able to make line breaks out wide with support outside you, as opposed to having to make them running wider and marking up 1-1 against faster opposition are vastly different. Not to mention the decision making requirements in defence are much different too.

Id rather a player who is used to attacking and defending out wide, not some back rower who has chalked up some line breaks running at halfbacks at club level. Its been tried before and failed.

I still don’t see what playing 3 in or 2 in has to do with the ability to run great overs and unders, neither Lewis nor Aubusson are the type to be running over halfbacks. Running between a centre and halfback isn’t any harder than a second rower and a halfback…

 

[RWB]

Lewis > Fensom
stop f**king Luke around and give him his rightful spot!

For a player who has been consistently one of the best in his position for a couple of years now it's amazing that Lewis has never been given a genuine shot at it. At the moment however I think Fensom answers more questions than Lewis. We need someone who can play in tight and make a shit load of tackles... like Myles, Johnson and now Parker have done so well over the past few years for QLD. There's enough attacking ability with Watmough, Sims & Bird, even Scott to an extent.

In terms of balance I just think Fensom is the right selection.

 

[Ladmate]

I don't understand picking players to defend QLD players. I believe you should always pick your best players and build chemistry. Look at what QLD did. They didn't stack up on players with little attacking talent to stop us. And now they are unstoppable.

 

[RWB]

I don't understand picking players to defend QLD players. I believe you should always pick your best players and build chemistry. Look at what QLD did. They didn't stack up on players with little attacking talent to stop us. And now they are unstoppable.

Sure they did, straight away Meninga picked Dallas Johnson at lock for the full series to tighten up the middle third. Could you name a player more defensively one sided player than him?

It's never been about selecting one or the other, defence or attack it's about picking the right balance.

 

[Joker's Wild]

You said ‘the likes of Inglis and Hodges’, I just assumed you meant Inglis, Hodges and similar great attacking players such as Folau or Tonga… my bad.

In which case to my recollection that’s the only time Mannering was ever put up against Inglis, so to answer your continual question one out of one, 100%. Not that I think winning percentages is a great way to measure the success of any individual’s performance, it’s almost irrelevant afaic.

Mannering actually played the 2011 Anzac test, 2009 Anzac test and 2008 WC final against Inglis plus 2007 Anzac test against Hodges. 1/4 is 25%. Couple that with Lewis Browns record of 0% (against lesser qual opposition) and it is a pretty sad argument for playing backrowers as centres in rep quality matches.

NSW have tried it once and failed, with Beau Scott. Scott though did not spend anywhere near the amount of games as Lewis & Aubusson in the centres and has nowhere near the potency of either, not to mention technically a totally different defender. Lewis & Aubusson both have great classic techniques and tackle low (exactly how you need to tackle Inglis), Scott’s first contact is often very high around the ball… there’s not many players to are going to match the upper body strength of Greg Inglis. This is not a criticism of Scott who I thought was great this year but he’s a different player and playing centre against Inglis was outside his limitations.



I still don’t see what playing 3 in or 2 in has to do with the ability to run great overs and unders, neither Lewis nor Aubusson are the type to be running over halfbacks. Running between a centre and halfback isn’t any harder than a second rower and a halfback…

Having you opposing centre being able to mark you or having them in 2 minds outside of you makes a tonne of difference, especially when the men inside are often halves and generally weaker defenders. Also, having line breaks does not a centre make, especially if we are going to have Uate on the right edge where getting him quality ball is the most important factor. I want a centre who can set up his man on the right.

 

[watatank]

re: picking "defensive" players

The reasoning is simple enough, not that you have to agree with it.

QLD have got it all over NSW in terms of playmakers, strike power and go forward. The only place where NSW is competitive and make up for some areas would be the backrow.

Put it this way...Who do you think is going to get better opportunities to score tries...Inglis running off Thurston or Lawrence running off Pearce?

 

[RWB]

Mannering actually played the 2011 Anzac test, 2009 Anzac test and 2008 WC final against Inglis plus 2007 Anzac test against Hodges. 1/4 is 25%. Couple that with Lewis Browns record of 0% (against lesser qual opposition) and it is a pretty sad argument for playing backrowers as centres in rep quality matches.

:lol: Don't know how I forgot this year. However in 2007 he was marked up against Jamie Lyon not Hodges... taking the totally non relevant statistic to 33%. 33% is probably in line with New Zealand's overall winning percentage against Australia if not up.

As for Lewis Brown I already mentioned he's not really relevant to this argument of backrowers who have played a significant part of their careers in the centres and have great defensive records.

Again winning percentages mean little though imo, no one teams results are soley based on one player... it's a ridiculous argument.

Having you opposing centre being able to mark you or having them in 2 minds outside of you makes a tonne of difference, especially when the men inside are often halves and generally weaker defenders. Also, having line breaks does not a centre make, especially if we are going to have Uate on the right edge where getting him quality ball is the most important factor. I want a centre who can set up his man on the right.

I still don't see how linebreaks would be harder in the centres than in the second row... not that it's relevant anyway Aubusson has a great strike rate at centre too. Running in between a second rower and a halfback in logic is the same as running between a halfback and a centre... you do understand the concept of running overs and unders don't you?

Neither Jennings nor Lawrence are noted for setting up their outside men, in fact I'd argue that Lewis would be better at ball playing and setting up tries for his outside man than either of them.

 

[Mr Angry]

Carney...

 

[RWB]

Carney...

or Campese have to be there if we're any chance.

Unfortunately like Fensom he wasn't named in the emerging squad which gives you feeling he wont be featuring this year.