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Knightsrebuild - time to do something.

otori

Juniors
Messages
1,456
I'm sure some answers were off limit, though. Perhaps Mids has agreed to be more candid in return for being able to review and help curate the dialog?

Fair dinkum trying to find fault where there is none.

This. Its not an interview with Leigh Sales. It's a stakeholder meeting to go over the clubs direction and strategy. If Nuffy tells us his interpretation and it misrepresents them then it's time and money to correct that and there's a risk that it could upset the fanbase. Hes giving us reasonable access and unless Nuffy says so, I don't feel they're out of line at all.
 

Nuffy

Bench
Messages
4,075
Below is a summary of the discussion we had with Matt Gidley.

Regarding changes, there was one small change which didn't alter the point that was made, it actually reinforced it.

Keen to hear your thoughts.

************************************************************************************************************************

I had previously sent a series of questions to Matt Gidley, as a follow up and to see if we could get more detail on a number of topics that are near and dear to our hearts and he was kind enough to give us the opportunity to meet and discuss the issues. Whilst we are all concerned about the performance of the club and its future, credit must be given to Matt for always fronting up to face the criticism and questioning and we appreciate the access we have been given.


Centre of Excellence – We asked about progress on this issue understanding that it would be a key enabler for future success. It seems that progress is advanced more that perhaps the clubs previous commentary suggested. They have money allocated from the state government and three sites are under consideration.


They are the stadium, which the club feels is the optimal location for obvious reasons, at West’s which also has its appeals as it’s the training base for the club and finally the University is in play which in itself is an attractive option due to the access to sports science and facilities. The club acknowledged the need to move on the option sooner rather than later as the grant from the state government will not be around forever which in itself may take the stadium location out of the decision making process as it’s likely the longest lead time development.


My personal opinion is that the University might be the most attractive proposal in the long run due to the access to sport science and medicine departments and the ability to link it into a community asset. I also reckon that Wests, as a potential owner, will weigh in with an offer but it could potentially be a bargaining chip as part of the sale process. Due to those variables, I suspect we won’t see a decision until the sale is formalised.


High Performance manager – We asked about progress in this area after the loss of Phil Coles, whom the club thought they had tempted back. Phil seems to be playing a consulting role in the background and helping the club reinvigorate this part of the club. They understand the importance and are trying to add additional resources. At the time Matt suggested that they were close to securing the services of an experienced sports medicine guy to head that department up. Subsequent to that it seems that we’ve recruited Tony Ayoub from the Dragons. I’m not sure whether he was the person nominated by Matt. It’s safe to assume we will see some changes in that department and fingers crossed an improvement in our injury situation.


Contract situations – Hottest of hot topics and Matt was upfront about the situation that they find themselves in and it’s essential in line with much of the detail reported in the media. They were confident that McManus and Snowden would be medically retired (and they were) which would help the cap situation. A number of players have been told that they aren’t in the plans for 2017 and beyond so they are working to move them out or encourage them to find new homes. All of this is intended to allow the club to bring new players into the system that better compliment the remaining players and putting some experience around the kids.


It seems there are a number of players targeted and the club believes they will be in mix as the season progress. The club believes that a number of clubs have cap pressures which may assist us in securing some support.


The club knows they need to bolster the roster and they feel that Brown and Mooney have a solid plan in place to improve the club. We did however make the point that the further the season progresses, the more fans are concerned that the lack of signing progress means the same roster for 2017.


Matt wouldn’t be drawn on when we can expect to see some progress on this front and we suggested that the club needed to make some progress quickly to give the fans something to focus on as we move into 2017.


Team performance – We discussed this and Matt acknowledged the pain that supporters are going through in 2016 and the necessary but unfortunate process of roster change during the season. The club has faith in the junior development pathways whilst Mac and I suggested that beyond the golden crop (of which Matt was one), our ability to recruit, develop and retain star juniors has been questionable over the last decade or more. I asked that assuming we did develop a crop of juniors, were we putting support around the junior teams and getting the best possible coaches and support staff.


Matt said they were and indicated that it was an area of investment moving forward. We did ask about how Todd Lowrie became a U20’s coach when signed as a player and whether Garth Brennan was in the mix in the future and to be far Matt didn’t offer a lot of commentary on either point.


He believes that all the young players will be better for the exposure in 2016 and better with a full preseason under their belts, something most didn’t have. I did acknowledge that not all the juniors would evolve into long term NRL players but he did feel there were a number in the current team who would go on to have long careers and some who wouldn’t go the distance.


We spoke about potential new recruits and Matt suggested that they were looking for players with the right attitude to cement the culture and yes it seems we are genuinely interested in Greg Bird although he is still under contract. Much of what has been written in the media about what Greg Bird would bring to the team seems to echo the clubs position on him and his attributes.


We are also looking at a number of players and yes there seems to be some promise in them, rather than bits and pieces players and journeymen. We made the point to Matt that it all sounds promising but the fans need to see some positive movement because the job of rebuilding is only half done, moving players on is but the first piece. We felt it’s time to put a few signings to bed to prove that we are executing the plan.


Interestingly, we spoke a little about Darren Mooney and Matt believes he could be one of the most important signings in the clubs history such is his ability to remediate a cap and build a team. At this point we know Brown and Mooney can cut players, we just need to see them start building the roster up, until we do, it’s subjective how we get out of this hole.


We get the impression that Matt is hurting as much as the average fan and that makes sense as he’s pretty vested in the club, we can’t fault that piece.


We touched on Rick Stone briefly and how he had the support of the CEO and board, until he didn’t and how did the club know that Nathan Brown was taking the club in the right direction as he’d been afford more latitude than just about any coach in NRL history and certainly any Knights coach.


Matt made the point that even before Nathan Brown got the job, he told them that they could appoint a coach who’d tweak things and we’d run 8-12th most years, but if we wanted enduring success; we’d need to start from scratch. So we are starting from scratch. Again we made the point that the timing seems vague and the results are far from certain, it’s critical we see some progress beyond letting blokes go.


Future ownership – We touched on this briefly and frankly not a lot of hard detail was shared, which we get but there does seems to be a pretty decent pool of interested parties across a spectrum of types such as individuals, parties and community groups. The deepest cheque book doesn’t seem to be the major criteria but our speculation was on debt retiring and sufficient working capital / reserves to endure the cyclical nature of an NRL team’s success.


Matt did however confirm that any surplus from the sale gets returned to the NRL, it’s hard to imagine any new owner ponying up millions but it’s a bit galling that the NRL potentially gets a windfall from our sale whilst running us on a shoestring. Perhaps the members should have got first right to buy back the club, rather than the NRL. Matt didn’t offer any comments on these points.


TPA’s -Now some good news, it seems that the club has done well in re-engaging with the community and particularly the business community and it seems that a number of prominent businessmen have rallied around the club offering support and assembling TPA opportunities for the club. Everything is of course above board but Matt believes we finally have some TPA’s available to bolster the cap situation. The secret is finding the right investment to utilise them and whilst it was not confirmed, it seems we are yet to use them and hopefully they come into play sooner rather than later.


Generally the club acknowledges the pain the supporters are going through and they feel we will be better for the disastrous season we are about the close out. They know they need some quality to bolster the team and they seem to be working on that situation. We made the point however that until the supporters see some positive developments on the recruitment front, the plan as mentioned numerous times, lacks substance and no one is quite sure.


Thanks again to Matt Gidley for taking the time to meet with us and discuss our concerns and issues of interest in detail.
 

Haffa

Guest
Messages
15,984
Thanks, Nuffy, good read. I'm cautiously optimistic but I agree we need to see some steps made soon.

Matt did however confirm that any surplus from the sale gets returned to the NRL, it’s hard to imagine any new owner ponying up millions but it’s a bit galling that the NRL potentially gets a windfall from our sale whilst running us on a shoestring. Perhaps the members should have got first right to buy back the club, rather than the NRL. Matt didn’t offer any comments on these points.

This bit pisses me off though. I'm getting sick of the way the NRL is run.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
25,988
Good of him to give you the time he gave you. As you say often throughout the piece, the proof will be in the pudding. Anyone can tear a roster apart... hopefully in the next few months we'll see some movement on rebuilding it. If March 2017 rolls around and we're still stuck with the same 17 we had round 26 2016, then alarm bells will be ringing quite loudly.

Thanks for the time and effort, Nuffy & co. Appreciated.
 
Messages
3,674
I reckon the cap pressure announcement wrt other clubs references GC to some extent with their signing of Hayne.
Might mean they need to let go the likes of Bird.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,353
I reckon the cap pressure announcement wrt other clubs references GC to some extent with their signing of Hayne.
Might mean they need to let go the likes of Bird.

They are shopping a few around, as are a few other teams.

We need to be patient, the amount desperate clubs will tip in to move contracted players grows as the next season gets closer.... and we are the club with the most (by far) left to spend. Yes we know TPAs play a part, but managers still prefer guaranteed club dollars, and they smell blood in the water with us right now.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
I've said that before Mac re managers being stupid to advise their client to take large TPA sums as they are not guaranteed and you've seemed dismissive of it. You changing your mind somewhat now?
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,353
I've said that before Mac re managers being stupid to advise their client to take large TPA sums as they are not guaranteed and you've seemed dismissive of it. You changing your mind somewhat now?

Not at all. They want the largest total dollar value - but all things being equal they will take club dollars over TPAs.

And, rightly or wrongly, there is a perception that we will pay second tier talent top tier dollars.
 

Still Nutty

Juniors
Messages
867
Thanks Mac and Nuffy...really appreciate the representation you provide and the insights and feedback you bring back to the members and supporters.

Just some points out of the feedback:

  • I think I said earlier in the year that the signing of Daren Mooney is probably one of the best coups the club could achieve for the long term viability of the Knights and I still expect that, along with Brown, he is the most important signing we have secured this year
  • Heard Brown on 2KO yesterday whilst driving north (had to stop the car half way up the Bulahdelah bypass to make sure I caught all of it) - he was candid as always and reflected a lot of what has been described here re the strategy/plan of junior development along with the influx of selected experienced players. The focus he described though was ensuring the cultural experience of players who knew what it takes as a club and individually to be competitive at premiership winning level within the NRL...he actually got asked about whether Jamal Idris would be a good buy and he stated clearly that he is not the sort of player he is looking for (he suggested Jamal would need the structure of a club like the Storm to suit him) and pointed to a younger version of a Jeremy Smith type player as his likely target, which seems to reflect the focus that we see Bird in that light.
  • The BS about refilling the NRL coffers from any residual funds above and beyond the existing debt astounds me...what incentive is their from any buyer to pay significant overs if they know the investment isn't going into developing and maintaining the asset they are purchasing???!! I would hope that astute buyers may well meet the expected outlay and provide the strategic link that additional funds would make up their intended longer term future investment to see the club develop going forward.
  • in fairness I wasn't expecting much on future signing specifics because 1) we are still in an active season with many of the teams where we may seek to source players are still participating and 2) one of the things I have appreciated about how our signings have gone of late (outside of Sione and his brothers) is that we don't do much on the signings front in the public spotlight - whilst it can be frustrating not to see movement until the action has taken place, it is one of the positives for me about how the club management has conducted its business
  • I had also stated earlier on this year that the board had been selected very much for it's business acumen and getting the financial foundation sound for us to move forward and the feedback on the number of interested parties for the impending sale and the TPA development behind the scenes seems to reflect that this has also been solid work that is starting to bear some fruit
While I also acknowledge that the rhetoric needs to translate into tangible progress before fans will start taking some comfort that the plan is coming together, I am heartened that I am supporting a club that is doing the best it can within the means available to give me the solid foundations of a club that will be consistently competitive within the medium term...and importantly it is moving from a 'hope' to some degree of confidence that we are getting it right
 

Knight76

Juniors
Messages
2,044
Thanks Mac and Nuffy...really appreciate the representation you provide and the insights and feedback you bring back to the members and supporters.

  • The BS about refilling the NRL coffers from any residual funds above and beyond the existing debt astounds me...what incentive is their from any buyer to pay significant overs if they know the investment isn't going into developing and maintaining the asset they are purchasing???!! I would hope that astute buyers may well meet the expected outlay and provide the strategic link that additional funds would make up their intended longer term future investment to see the club develop going forward.
It is disappointing the NRL is not putting the money back in to the club but realistically the club is privately owned at the moment by the NRL If a buyer of a club wants to take control, they would have to buy the club from the previous owner and that owner isn't going to say well you bought it from me for 10mill, so how about I put 8 mill back in to the club.

Slightly different when your owned by the league but the league isn't going to sell the club for $10 mil (for example) then give the new buyers back most of it.
 

Knight76

Juniors
Messages
2,044
Renewed interest from Marwan Koukash.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s/news-story/bddf362d2fe15b973807c7feb88cdc8c

I wonder what the NRL will think of him as a buyer. He has called for a vote of no confidence in the RFL in the UK due to his side being caught for salary cap breaches. He paid players through his own business ventures outside the cap.

He seems a bit volatile to me. He is talking about selling Salford, after only owning it for 3 years.

We need stability, not another Tinker type whirlwind. Not that I believe Koukash is going to go broke like Tinkler, he has a PHD and is self made. I do think he is a bit of a narcissist though, and we don't need a destabilising owner.
 
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macavity

Referee
Messages
20,353
It is disappointing the NRL is not putting the money back in to the club but realistically the club is privately owned at the moment by the NRL If a buyer of a club wants to take control, they would have to buy the club from the previous owner and that owner isn't going to say well you bought it from me for 10mill, so how about I put 8 mill back in to the club.

Slightly different when your owned by the league but the league isn't going to sell the club for $10 mil (for example) then give the new buyers back most of it.

I would argue the NRL hold the assets of the club club under a constructive trust to the members. I hope the remnants of the members club mount the same argument.
 

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