Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol. You start out with a lit. I stopped reading after your first falsehood "The Bears having no fans!" Amazing! Are you over 18!?

I didn't say none - I said f#@k all - you know, not many. Their highest ever season in terms of average crowds was 15297 in 1991 and 15116 in 1994 which was pretty much their golden generation of Seers, Florimo, Larson, Taylor, Billy Moore etc. Every other year that decade hovered around the 10-11k mark. Before that it was even worse, they struggled to get their average above 10k before 1990, some years falling as low as 5 - 6k. So, yeah they have historically had very few fans and even in the best of times for them they topped out at 15k. There would be significantly less of them now.

So good riddance to the bears - Melbourne in just 20 years have built up to an average of 17 - 18k and growing, plus they have TV ratings that dwarf anything Norths could ever dream of. The game is bigger and better without Norths, they were a small club that belong in NSW Cup. Now, if we can just flush out more like them so that the big clubs of Sydney can stop being held back.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol. The name I'm using are just that "nanes".Not sure what any is being called! And the Bears had Influential multi billionaire businessman John Singleton backing them. But the frustration and procrastination from the NRL was too.much!
Am I dealing with a child!? Some of your comments are very immature!?

Which ones exactly? Are they the ones that point cold hard facts out to you that you don't like?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Because it's not necessary! That's why!

So why is it necessary for the bears?

 

[Stallion]

Which ones exactly? Are they the ones that point cold hard facts out to you that you don't like?

You're strange ! When I use a name like Brisbane Dolphins, it's purely an example! You are taking it as gospel! Not all there champ.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You're strange ! When I use a name like Brisbane Dolphins, it's purely an example! You are taking it as gospel! Not all there champ.

Well how about you don't use it - the name is Redcliffe Dolphins. Have some respect for the traditional clubs that you always claim to care about.

 

[Stallion]

So why is it necessary for the bears?

It's not necessary to rid the Bears either! Why do you think the Central Coast Bears is being discussed. My God we are going around in circles! You're not all there are you! ?Or you actally are a juvenile on an adult website!?

 

[Stallion]

Well how about you don't use it - the name is Redcliffe Dolphins. Have some respect for the traditional clubs that you always claim to care about.

Lol . That confirms it. Either you are a juvenile well out of your depth or you are dumb?!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol . That confirms it. Either you are a juvenile well out of your depth or you are dumb?!

Pretty rich from you Stallion to be calling people juvenile & dumb - lol

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It's not necessary to rid the Bears either! Why do you the Central Coast Bears is being discussed. My God we are going around in circles! You're not all there are you! ?Or you actally a juvenile on an adult website!?

Don't think you understand how history, longevity (Bears motif &colours) & relevance works. The Bears fans will come out of hibernation for a Bears team. Believe it or not!

So if the bears fans can engage with the Bears and they don't actually have to be playing in North Sydney at North Sydney Oval, then why wouldn't that apply to relocating other Sydney team? TV is the driver of the game afterall.

Because it's not necessary! That's why!

So why is it necessary for the bears?

Pay attention Stallion - why is it necessary for the Bears to move to the Central Coast? If, according to you it is not necessary for any other Sydney team to relocate?

 

[Stallion]

Pay attention Stallion - why is it necessary for the Bears to move to the Central Coast? If, according to you it is not necessary for any other Sydney team to relocate?

That’s illogical what you have come up with. A totally innapropriate analogy! The Bears situation is completely different to other Sydney clubs. We already have other Sydney clubs suffering from the superleague fiasco(mergers etc) . The Bears were ousted as a result of that agreement. They are out of the comp! It makes sense to have a win win scenario with the Bears reinvigorated just up the railway line. Their fans from north Sydney will use convenient rail travel or the highway to get to games. Not to mention local juniors both in North Sydney and the Central Coast will increase as they have a team to aspire to. If you can't work that out please move on. You are wasting proactive chat space.And I'm starting to think you are dislexic! ? Given your comments and some of your previous actions on this site I have a hunch I'm on the money!

 

[The Great Dane]

You didn't read too well did you!? I have mentioned Melbourne (West Melbourne Magpies )Brisbane (Brisbane Dolphins ) clearly as additional to current clubs?Think you will note that these major population centres will ultimately have two clubs in the NRL ? And other major cities such as Perth and Adelaide would eventually have two clubs also? So I suggest that's fairly decent coverage and reach for the NRL.

No I read it just fine, but theoretically both Brisbane and Melbourne could support more then two clubs if the NRL wanted to go that route. Personally I agree that both should be restrained to two clubs for the foreseeable future as in my opinion it's better to have a bit of scarcity then to push a market to get every cent out of it and risk crashing it.

Your assertion that the St George ILLAWARRA Dragons is not representing the StGeorge area and Illawarra area is false! It's clear they have strong ties to both areas and out of all the mergers, this combined effort is working well.

Yeah no...

St. George have completely muscled the Steelers out of the joint venture, they've slowly decreased the amount of games in Wollongong and increased the number in Sydney over the years, apart from 'Illawarra' being in the name they've slowly decrease all reference to the Illawarra (and the Illawarra's RL heritage) out of their branding and they've largely squeezed it out of their marketing and advertising as well, and the only reason they have keep their HQ in Wollongong is cause it was cheaper to build it there than in Sydney and there's no need for them to relocate at the moment, their second grade team isn't even Illawarra based or branded anymore for gods sake...

Ultimately the philosophy being : "Go where the people are! "(modern markets as a preference -tv wise)
And are your eyes painted on ? If not, your comprehension skills are very poor!
Also think two clubs will suffice for New Zealand . (with respects to Wellington or wherever will be good ) After all, it is the National Rugby League of Australia.

To get any reasonable coverage and broadcasting deal in NZ you need at least a few teams, and definitely need at least one on the South Island as well, otherwise you aren't even engaging with a good chunk of the nation and it simply isn't worth much more than a few NZ$100K to broadcasters, advertisers, etc.

The spread of the clubs is decent and valid. Moreso respecful and catering to major population areas. No doubt other areas can be satisfied with "guest games etc" but , in the main, the spread for this competition is pretty good as a futuristic guide. Not sure you agree or can comprehend this but there it is!

It'd be even more decent and valid if it wasn't so Sydney heavy, you'd also face quality problems with so many clubs that should be avoided if at all possible, it's also not very adventurous as there's no big expansion projects but that is neither here nor there.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

That’s illogical what you have come up with. A totally innapropriate analogy! The Bears situation is completely different to other Sydney clubs. We already have other Sydney clubs suffering from the superleague fiasco(mergers etc) . The Bears were ousted as a result of that agreement.

No they weren't, they are out because they went broke following a merge with Manly

They are out of the comp!

Thank God! The comp was actually able to rid itself of an underperforming club and grow.

It makes sense to have a win win scenario with the Bears reinvigorated just up the railway line.

Does it make sense? Central Coast Bears add nothing to the NRL that the NRL doesn't already have and there is no guarantee that the good people of the Central Coast will adopt the Bears as their own. Plus it doesn't address your constant whinging about ignoring North Sydney - let's just move them to Gosford - lol

Their fans from north Sydney will use convenient rail travel or the highway to get to games.

Will they? They barely cracked a 10k average when they only had to travel to North Sydney Oval. They had very few supporters then which would only have declined over the last 20 years. If you are basing the club's success on a regional centre that doesn't have the corporate support for an NRL team and travelling fans from North Sydney then it is dead before it starts.

I'm starting to think you are dislexic! ? Given your comments and some of your previous actions on this site I have a hunch I'm on the money!

You can throw all of the insults that you like mate. There is only one of us that posts statistics and facts whilst the other posts fantasy, anecdotes and insults as a last resort to avoid the debate. BTW do you know what dislexia is? There is only one of us that seem to have trouble putting the letters in their words in the correct order.

I notice that you failed to address my post about the bears' appauling crowds a few posts back. It seems to be your style. Can't win an arugment, fill a post with waffle and insults but with no substance or facts and if that fails, just ignore the point altogether so you don't have to admit that you are wrong.

 

[Stallion]

No they weren't, they are out because they went broke following a merge with Manly



Thank God! The comp was actually able to rid itself of an underperforming club and grow.



Does it make sense? Central Coast Bears add nothing to the NRL that the NRL doesn't already have and there is no guarantee that the good people of the Central Coast will adopt the Bears as their own. Plus it doesn't address your constant whinging about ignoring North Sydney - let's just move them to Gosford - lol



Will they? They barely cracked a 10k average when they only had to travel to North Sydney Oval. They had very few supporters then which would only have declined over the last 20 years. If you are basing the club's success on a regional centre that doesn't have the corporate support for an NRL team and travelling fans from North Sydney then it is dead before it starts.



You can throw all of the insults that you like mate. There is only one of us that posts statistics and facts whilst the other posts fantasy, anecdotes and insults as a last resort to avoid the debate. BTW do you know what dislexia is? There is only one of us that seem to have trouble putting the letters in their words in the correct order.

I notice that you failed to address my post about the bears' appauling crowds a few posts back. It seems to be your style. Can't win an arugment, fill a post with waffle and insults but with no substance or facts and if that fails, just ignore the point altogether so you don't have to admit that you are wrong.

You've earnt the insults and more. Your ignorance abounds no limits. There are more supporters of the BEARS and other Sydney clubs than you think. And it's established generational support! And yes I know what dislexic is. And you definitely look at thinks differently! That was an observation. Your tangents are remarkably incoherent and lack credible logic. So you fit the bill. After all you have asserted a number of things on this site that have had no basis or credibility. ( and I can mention them again if you like...) Your disrespect for clubs that you obviously know little about and their dormant/latent supporter bases reflect your "out of touch" appraisal of reality on rugby league in Sydney. Yet we continue on with your incessant dribble! What a time waster!

 

[Stallion]

No I read it just fine, but theoretically both Brisbane and Melbourne could support more then two clubs if the NRL wanted to go that route. Personally I agree that both should be restrained to two clubs for the foreseeable future as in my opinion it's better to have a bit of scarcity then to push a market to get every cent out of it and risk crashing it.


Yeah no...

St. George have completely muscled the Steelers out of the joint venture, they've slowly decreased the amount of games in Wollongong and increased the number in Sydney over the years, apart from 'Illawarra' being in the name they've slowly decrease all reference to the Illawarra (and the Illawarra's RL heritage) out of their branding and they've largely squeezed it out of their marketing and advertising as well, and the only reason they have keep their HQ in Wollongong is cause it was cheaper to build it there than in Sydney and there's no need for them to relocate at the moment, their second grade team isn't even Illawarra based or branded anymore for gods sake...



To get any reasonable coverage and broadcasting deal in NZ you need at least a few teams, and definitely need at least one on the South Island as well, otherwise you aren't even engaging with a good chunk of the nation and it simply isn't worth much more than a few NZ$100K to broadcasters, advertisers, etc.



It'd be even more decent and valid if it wasn't so Sydney heavy, you'd also face quality problems with so many clubs that should be avoided if at all possible, it's also not very adventurous as there's no big expansion projects but that is neither here nor there.

Adventure in your mind would lead to precarious situations in bad times. Sticking with tried , true and well.known clubs familiar to the market place along with additional expansion clubs is the prudent way to go. The adventure is the game and its tapestry which has evloved and blossomed as a result of the highly envied and notorious Sydney rugby league clubs! They are gold and equally additional clubs joining the growing pot are also gold .

 

[The Great Dane]

Adventure in your mind would lead to precarious situations in bad times. Sticking with tried , true and well.known clubs familiar to the market place along with additional expansion clubs is the prudent way to go. The adventure is the game and its tapestry which has evloved and blossomed as a result of the highly envied and notorious Sydney rugby league clubs! They are gold and equally additional clubs joining the growing pot are also gold .

Ahh, but if you don't take some risks and try to expand and grow in new markets you eventually hit an artificial wall you've created for yourself and stagnate...

Eventually if the NRL ever conquers Australia and NZ they'll have to look to other markets to grow into, whether that/those markets are in the PI's, Asia, South Africa, or the Americas, who knows, but it is an inevitability given time that they'll have to try to dip their toes into some of those markets, unless the competition fails and folds of course.

Personally if it was me and the NRL got to that point I'd target Hawaii cause it's relitively rich, it's reletivley close, there's next to no competition in Hawaii in the pro sports market, it's got lots of cultural links to the PI's that are under exploited, and to me at least it seems like a totally achievable goal if the NRL was willing to really work for it. But we are on a whole other subject now.

 

[Stallion]

Ahh, but if you don't take some risks and try to expand and grow in new markets you eventually hit an artificial wall you've created for yourself and stagnate...

Eventually if the NRL ever conquers Australia and NZ they'll have to look to other markets to grow into, whether that/those markets are in the PI's, Asia, South Africa, or the Americas, who knows, but it is an inevitability given time that they'll have to try to dip their toes into some of those markets, unless the competition fails and folds of course.

Personally if it was me and the NRL got to that point I'd target Hawaii cause it's relitively rich, it's reletivley close, there's next to no competition in Hawaii in the pro sports market, it's got lots of cultural links to the PI's that are under exploited, and to me at least it seems like a totally achievable goal if the NRL was willing to really work for it. But we are on a whole other subject now.

Ultimately they are taking risks. Just not losing the assets for the risk gain.

 

[The Great Dane]

Ultimately they are taking risks. Just not losing the assets for the risk gain.

All truely great things take great risk, it’s inevitable.

So if the NRL ever wants to be truly great it will have to take some truly great risks.

 

[Stallion]

All truely great things take great risk, it’s inevitable.

So if the NRL ever wants to be truly great it will have to take some truly great risks.

Once again, the philosophy is fine! Taking risks whilst still averting disaster is wise. The expansion should occur but not at the cost of the games heritage and advantage over other codes *(the Sydney clubs )

 

[flippikat]

Once again, the philosophy is fine! Taking risks whilst still averting disaster is wise. The expansion should occur but not at the cost of the games heritage and advantage over other codes *(the Sydney clubs )

That's part of the problem though. If every current Sydney club is sacred, and deserves to be in the top flight - no mergers, no relocations, no demotion to 2nd tier - then that's insulting to Newcastle, Brisbane, Townsville & Auckland - who have transitioned their traditional competitions (including some great old clubs with storied histories of their own) to 2nd tier status so they each can have ONE seat at the big table.

Like you, I used to believe that we could just keep expanding whilst keeping the Sydney footprint "as is".. but I'm now pretty sure that we're at least a club or two too "Sydney-heavy" to properly capitalise on the expansion opportunities we have. For instance: Brisbane 2, Perth, NZ 2, Adelaide (Or Brisbane 3) would be great to add in the next 10 years, and if it can be done with an 18 team footprint (minus 2 Sydney spots), it opens a lot of revenue with minimal loss of competition quality.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You've earnt the insults and more.

Because I call you on your BS?

Your ignorance abounds nof limits. There are more supporters of the BEARS and other Sydney clubs than you think. And it's established generational support!

Yeah mate, heaps of fans. The stats really back you on that one.

Average attendance:
1999: 8566
1998: 11093
1997: 11713
1996: 10963
1995: 11514
1994: 15116
1993: 12264
1992: 10500
1991: 15297
1990: 9858
1989: 6547
1988: 9227
1987: 9054

Pretty appauling reading isn't it? Thank God they aren't around taking up a place in the comp anymore. BTW those years that I posted are their best run with crowds - lol

Your tangents are remarkably incoherent and lack credible logic. So you fit the bill. After all you have assered a number of things on this site that have had no.basis or credibility. ( and I can mention them again if you like...)

Please do mention them...

My tangents? Is this coming from the guy that can't answer a straight question? Oh and by the way, stats and facts have all the credibility in the world.