Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[Stallion]

Actually that's exactly why it's not a feasible move for the time being...

The Central Coast is within driving distance of 10 other clubs, the NRL is a recognised and well supported product on the CC, and it's a relatively small market that would be incapable of supporting it's own club unless the clubs managed to get a relatively high take up locally (so relatively large average crowds, 20k plus at least).

All of that means that the NRL doesn't need to crack the CC market cause they're already doing good business there, it's well within driving distance of more than half of the comp if any fans really want to attend regularly, and it's a small market that can't even support an A-league team without leaning on the Sydney market and the NRL cannot afford to have another club operating in Sydney.

We differ on that one. The proximity is a bonus!

 

[Stallion]

Alright so if we agree that for the foreseeable future that the NRL can only support 26 clubs max then who misses out and why cause there're more then 26 regions that want or could support a spot?

If only it was that simple...

Locking the code into 26 regions is way too simplistic. The competition is more than that. It's tapestry and attraction moulded by the Sydney clubs. We don't agree on where the clubs are located. So that's our gripe. Numbers are fine. History, relevance and credibility are different.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Are you aware that the Central Coast is just north for northern Sydney! ? That's why it's a feasible move. Or just bring back the Bears for North Sydney if you like . But I think two areas is better than one!

It's a different city 73km away mate - how is that going to engage the next generation of fans in Northern Sydney more than the other 8.5 clubs located in the actual city of Sydney itself?

 

[The Great Dane]

Locking the code into 26 regions is way too simplistic. The competition is more than that. It's tapestry and attraction moulded by the Sydney clubs. We don't agree on where the clubs are located. So that's our gripe. Numbers are fine. History, relevance and credibility are different.

Just answer the question!

If there's only roughly 26 spots max in the comp who misses out?

Does the NRL just give up on the potential growth in NZ?
Does the NRL under supply some of the big markets in Australia?
Do regional markets take a back seat?
Something tells me that you are against reducing the over saturation in Sydney, but are you against other current NRL clubs being cut?
What about other potential markets in the Pacific Islands and even further abroad, does the NRL ignore potential growth in those places?

I'm happy to reiterate but I'm pretty sure you know my answers to those questions, but what are your answers.

We're not "locking" the code into anything, we're being realistic about the rate of growth that the comp could support for the foreseeable future, who knows what happens beyond that.

 

[The Great Dane]

We differ on that one. The proximity is a bonus!

Yes we differ, but I can rationally explain why it's not a bonus in this case and you can't, you just assert that it is...

 

[titoelcolombiano]

At least you are appreciating that these clubs can raise income! That's an improvement! The Central Coast Bears would be more likely the instant success due to in place infrastructure, locality advantages, easy access travel (Rail way line) , nearby leagues club, modern stadium with seating for membership purposes in place, juniors in place, two areas to base it's support and the existing hibernating Bears fans that would come on board. And more I suggest!

I've always acknowledged the potential of Perth, Brisbane 2 and NZ 2 to add revenue to the NRL. To suggest that the Bears playing out of a regional centre will do the same is a stretch. There is not the level of corporate support and they offer the TV companies nothing that they don't already get. Not to mention that there is no guarantee that the Bears will be accepted by the people of the Central Coast as their team. If you are relying on the few bears fans around to travel up to Gosford every second week then the bid is dead in the water.

 

[Stallion]

It's a different city 73km away mate - how is that going to engage the next generation of fans in Northern Sydney more than the other 8.5 clubs located in the actual city of Sydney itself?

Don't think you understand how history, longevity (Bears motif &colours) & relevance works. The Bears fans will come out of hibernation for a Bears team. Believe it or not!

 

[Stallion]

Just answer the question!

If there's only roughly 26 spots max in the comp who misses out?

Does the NRL just give up on the potential growth in NZ?
Does the NRL under supply some of the big markets in Australia?
Do regional markets take a back seat?
Something tells me that you are against reducing the over saturation in Sydney, but are you against other current NRL clubs being cut?
What about other potential markets in the Pacific Islands and even further abroad, does the NRL ignore potential growth in those places?

I'm happy to reiterate but I'm pretty sure you know my answers to those questions, but what are your answers.

We're not "locking" the code into anything, we're being realistic about the rate of growth that the comp could support for the foreseeable future, who knows what happens beyond that.

Once again we stumble and disagree on this "oversaturation" in the Sydney market. The largest market in Australia and the core of this great competition. 6million plus if you count the Illawarra and Central Coast. That's worth keeping! The game can still grow with credibility with the Sydney clubs. Otherwise it becomes more fragile and suspect to ill direction and becoming a mess.

 

[Stallion]

Yes we differ, but I can rationally explain why it's not a bonus in this case and you can't, you just assert that it is...

Think it's the other way around I suggest!

 

[Stallion]

I've always acknowledged the potential of Perth, Brisbane 2 and NZ 2 to add revenue to the NRL. To suggest that the Bears playing out of a regional centre will do the same is a stretch. There is not the level of corporate support and they offer the TV companies nothing that they don't already get. Not to mention that there is no guarantee that the Bears will be accepted by the people of the Central Coast as their team. If you are relying on the few bears fans around to travel up to Gosford every second week then the bid is dead in the water.

This is where you fail . The North Sydney CBD alone would garnish immense support. Believe it or not the Bears are missed and their is resentment out there.

 

[The Great Dane]

Once again we stumble and disagree on this "oversaturation" in the Sydney market. The largest market in Australia and the core of this great competition. 6million plus if you count the Illawarra and Central Coast. That's worth keeping! The game can still grow with credibility with the Sydney clubs. Otherwise it becomes more fragile and suspect to ill direction and becoming a mess.

It's not that hard just answer the question!

Who misses out, and preferably why do they miss out?

BTW the Illawarra and CC aren't part of Sydney and including them as part of Sydney isn't only disingenuous it's just plan wrong...

Think it's the other way around I suggest!

Then I'd suggest that you don't know what assertion means, cause none of this is asserted:

The Central Coast is within driving distance of 10 other clubs, the NRL is a recognised and well supported product on the CC, and it's a relatively small market that would be incapable of supporting it's own club unless the clubs managed to get a relatively high take up locally (so relatively large average crowds, 20k plus at least).

All of that means that the NRL doesn't need to crack the CC market cause they're already doing good business there, it's well within driving distance of more than half of the comp if any fans really want to attend regularly, and it's a small market that can't even support an A-league team without leaning on the Sydney market and the NRL cannot afford to have another club operating in Sydney.

It's all factually accurate (and frankly rather uncontroversially so), on the other hand saying that RL can never be successful without the Sydney clubs, and that the sport will fail without the NS Bears even if we have to bring them back outside of NS, etc, are all unprovable assertions.

 

[Stallion]

It's not that hard just answer the question!

Who misses out, and preferably why do they miss out?

BTW the Illawarra and CC aren't part of Sydney and including them as part of Sydney isn't only disingenuous it's just plan wrong...


Then I'd suggest that you don't know what assertion means, cause none of this is asserted: It's all factually accurate (and frankly rather uncontroversially so), on the other hand saying that RL can never be successful without the Sydney clubs, and that the sport will fail without the NS Bears even if we have to bring them back outside of NS, etc, are all unprovable assertions.

Lol. Then pray tell whom do the Dragons represent! ? And as we are discussing the Central Coast Bears that's appropriate as well. And this "missing out question" : I'd suggest all the Sydney based clubs plus the Central Coast Bears are absolutely required. They are the cornerstone of the competition. The Royal cards in the deck you referred to earlier. So other clubs that should be added to existing clubs would be as alluded to previously: (pardon the names but think you get the idea? )Brisbane Dolphins, West Coast Pirates, Wellington Orcas, West Melbourne Magpies, Adelaide Dingoes. With the Central Coast Bears that makes 22. In time another team in Perth, Adelaide would make good sense. There's 24 teams in a very attractive national competition with substance, relevance, history and rivalries!

 

[The Great Dane]

Lol. Then pray tell whom do the Dragons represent! ? And as we are discussing the Central Coast Bears that's appropriate as well.

The Dragons represent Kogarah, Hurstville, etc, basically South Sydney, they pretend to represent Wollongong and parts of the South Coast, but that has always simply been a means to and end to keep the club alive and in Sydney. They cannibalised the Steelers, nothing more nothing less.

The fact that the Dragons play in both Sydney and Wollongong doesn't mean that Wollongong is in Sydney anymore than GWS playing in Canberra means that Canberra is a suburb of Western Sydney.

And this "missing out question" : I'd suggest all the Sydney based clubs plus the Central Coast Bears are absolutely required. They are the cornerstone of the competition. The Royal cards in the deck you referred to earlier. So other clubs that should be added to existing clubs would be as alluded to previously: (pardon the names but think you get the idea? )Brisbane Dolphins, West Coast Pirates, Wellington Orcas, West Melbourne Magpies, Adelaide Dingoes. With the Central Coast Bears that makes 22. In time another team in Perth, Adelaide would make good sense. There's 24 teams in a very attractive national competition with substance, relevance, history and rivalries!

See that wasn't so hard.

Ok so Christchurch, Hamilton, Dunedin, PNG, Brisbane, Central Queensland, Carins, Melbourne, Geelong, etc, and other more exotic locales that hypothetically could support an NRL club all miss out...

You may as well give up on Wellington and Auckland as well cause without at least 3-4 teams the NRL's never going to achieve much more then a crappy broadcasting deal in NZ, so may as well cut them loose to do their own thing and focus those resources in other areas where the NRL is more serious.

 

[Stallion]

The Dragons represent Kogarah, Hurstville, etc, basically South Sydney, they pretend to represent Wollongong and parts of the South Coast, but that has always simply been a means to and end to keep the club alive and in Sydney. They cannibalised the Steelers, nothing more nothing less.

The fact that the Dragons play in both Sydney and Wollongong doesn't mean that Wollongong is in Sydney anymore than GWS playing in Canberra means that Canberra is a suburb of Western Sydney.
See that wasn't so hard.

Ok so Christchurch, Hamilton, Dunedin, PNG, Brisbane, Central Queensland, Carins, Melbourne, Geelong, etc, and other more exotic locales that hypothetically could support an NRL club all miss out...

You may as well give up on Wellington and Auckland as well cause without at least 3-4 teams the NRL's never going to achieve much more then a crappy broadcasting deal in NZ, so may as well cut them loose to do their own thing and focus those resources in other areas where the NRL is more serious.

You didn't read too well did you!? I have mentioned Melbourne (West Melbourne Magpies )Brisbane (Brisbane Dolphins ) clearly as additional to current clubs?Think you will note that these major population centres will ultimately have two clubs in the NRL ? And other major cities such as Perth and Adelaide would eventually have two clubs also? So I suggest that's fairly decent coverage and reach for the NRL.
Your assertion that the St George ILLAWARRA Dragons is not representing the StGeorge area and Illawarra area is false! It's clear they have strong ties to both areas and out of all the mergers, this combined effort is working well.
Ultimately the philosophy being : "Go where the people are! "(modern markets as a preference -tv wise)
And are your eyes painted on ? If not, your comprehension skills are very poor!
Also think two clubs will suffice for New Zealand . (with respects to Wellington or wherever will be good ) After all, it is the National Rugby League of Australia. The spread of the clubs is decent and valid. Moreso respecful and catering to major population areas. No doubt other areas can be satisfied with "guest games etc" but , in the main, the spread for this competition is pretty good as a futuristic guide. Not sure you agree or can comprehend this but there it is!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Don't think you understand how history, longevity (Bears motif &colours) & relevance works. The Bears fans will come out of hibernation for a Bears team. Believe it or not!

So if the bears fans can engage with the Bears and they don't actually have to be playing in North Sydney at North Sydney Oval, then why wouldn't that apply to relocating other Sydney team? TV is the driver of the game afterall.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Once again we stumble and disagree on this "oversaturation" in the Sydney market. The largest market in Australia and the core of this great competition. 6million plus if you count the Illawarra and Central Coast. That's worth keeping! The game can still grow with credibility with the Sydney clubs. Otherwise it becomes more fragile and suspect to ill direction and becoming a mess.

Yes, it is worth keeping - but it doesn't mean that all clubs in that city need to play in the NRL.

This is where you fail . The North Sydney CBD alone would garnish immense support. Believe it or not the Bears are missed and their is resentment out there.

Which companies got behind the bears when they had an active bid a few years back?

BTW - the Dolphins aren't and never will be the Brisbane Dolphins. They are proudly from Redcliffe and aren't turning their back on that name any time soon. Maybe you can show respect for that traditional club since you are always banging on about showing respect for traditinoal clubs.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Don't think you understand how history, longevity (Bears motif &colours) & relevance works. The Bears fans will come out of hibernation for a Bears team. Believe it or not!

The bears had f#$k all fans in the 90's and would have even less now. They've been gone 20 years and Melbourne has gone on to not only replace the support that Norths brought but overtake it. If you relegate Manly and replace them with Perth the same thing would happen within 20 years. The game moves on and is better off for it.

You seem to think that the growth of other sports in Sydney automatically means the decline of RL. That is not the case. Do you see AFL in crisis mode because of the impressive growth of the Storm? No, both codes can grow at the same time.

 

[Stallion]

So if the bears fans can engage with the Bears and they don't actually have to be playing in North Sydney at North Sydney Oval, then why wouldn't that apply to relocating other Sydney team? TV is the driver of the game afterall.

Because it's not necessary! That's why!

 

[Stallion]

Yes, it is worth keeping - but it doesn't mean that all clubs in that city need to play in the NRL.



Which companies got behind the bears when they had an active bid a few years back?

BTW - the Dolphins aren't and never will be the Brisbane Dolphins. They are proudly from Redcliffe and aren't turning their back on that name any time soon. Maybe you can show respect for that traditional club since you are always banging on about showing respect for traditinoal clubs.

Lol. The name I'm using are just that "nanes".Not sure what any is being called! And the Bears had Influential multi billionaire businessman John Singleton backing them. But the frustration and procrastination from the NRL was too.much!
Am I dealing with a child!? Some of your comments are very immature!?

 

[Stallion]

The bears had f#$k all fans in the 90's and would have even less now. They've been gone 20 years and Melbourne has gone on to not only replace the support that Norths brought but overtake it. If you relegate Manly and replace them with Perth the same thing would happen within 20 years. The game moves on and is better off for it.

You seem to think that the growth of other sports in Sydney automatically means the decline of RL. That is not the case. Do you see AFL in crisis mode because of the impressive growth of the Storm? No, both codes can grow at the same time.

Lol. You start out with a lit. I stopped reading after your first falsehood "The Bears having no fans!" Amazing! Are you over 18!?