Central Coast Bears, 2013.

[t-ba]

With local MP and No 1 supporter Tony Abbott as PM, yes I can.

Yeah right. The Libs and Labor treat the Northern Suburbs with utter contempt. We need a strong independent to get anything out of either party.

 

[Beowulf]

If the parents don't follow League, the kids are inclined not to either. Regardless of which team those kids on the north shore follow, the number that actually follow the game in in decline and junior numbers are below soccer, union and even Afl, FTA and Fox viewing of leauge in the region has also declined significantly since the BEars removal.

If the parents watch AFL or Union because they have no interest in a comp sans Bears, the kids will largely follow suit. Bears fans are 25+ now and still breeding, so this issue will last another 20 years. After then, I agree it would be pointless adding a bears team to the comp.

 

[Perth Red]

my anecdotal experience is more to do with who their mates follow and what is played at school than parents viewing habits. Obviously if you have grown up in a a league family and dragged to the ground since 3years old you are more likely to follow the game but equally most of my friends are soccer loving families but their kids are growing up and following afl as that is what their mates follow and what is played and talked about at school.

Exposure to the game and the NRL in schools is more important, peer presuure rules as a kid.

 

[t-ba]

Junior numbers have been awful for as long as I've been alive in the Norths catchment. The Junior League spent most of the late 1980's and all of the 1990's imploding on itself, at a time when Norths itself was hitting previously unimaginable heights. Union and Soccer have been bigger in terms of participation for a very long time.

Norths successfully built up a great fanbase during a time when their Junior stocks fell completely apart. You can't blame Super League, the Merge or Norths getting booted for the fact that by 1995 the only team fielding anything from under 12's and below in the Lower North Shore was Brothers! But it still didn't stop Norths from cultivating a decent fanbase.

Norths themselves recognised this. They told Willoughby and Brothers to go find another comp to play in...They still wanted the fans but weren't too fussed about the juniors.

The Upper North Shore is a different matter. You can pretty much blame Norths absence for the collapse of that part of the catchment. I'm still in shock a decade later that a club like Hornsby hit the wall.

IF Norths don't get in (And you can't say I'm not a big fan of the bid, but I think all hope is now gone in it's current configuration), Manly can realistically move on to the Lower and Middle North Shores. I don't think the clubs culture is at all compatible with the Upper North Shore. Different planet up there...This part of Sydney has its own unique culture that isn't going to change any time soon, but as Norths Showed, it's entirely within reason that the game can get quite a few punters through the gates who aren't particularly attached to RL like most of us on here.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Exposure to the game and the NRL in schools is more important, peer presuure rules as a kid.

Agree.

If you are a kid going to a school ANYWHERE in Sydney, you are going to be exposed to the NRL...

 

[Beowulf]

Agree.

If you are a kid going to a school ANYWHERE in Sydney, you are going to be exposed to the NRL...

Not in the primary school my kids go to. Only 2 play RL out of the entire infants K-2, and I think only 3 from 3-6 play junior RL. Out of a school population of around 400 (so approx 200 boys).

I'll give you my experiences this year alone at a public primary school (not sure abt High School - no kids that old yet).

I tried to get the principal to help push our local junior club - no interest. Only the largest soccer club in the district gets assistance, and from week 1 every year mothers with clipboards patrol the schoolyard signing up all parents to the soccer club - I was told 'if your boy wants to make friends, he'd better play soccer etc'. I told them to piss off (nicely)....but already my son (who is a poss future rep player I've been told) is asking if he can play soccer next year iso RL - he wants to play what all his school mates are playing.

I doubt I can get more than 1 more year of RL out of him without the Bears - if the Bears aren't included I won't even bother.

My son gets looked at in a mixture if shock and bewilderment when parents ask what he plays - its about 70% soccer, 20% Union, 8% AFL, 2% League. Granted there is more actual talk about NRL in years 5 & 6 - probably split equally 4 ways between EPL, AFL, Union and RL.

They had a sports jersey day a few months ago - prob 70% wore EPL or Wallabies jerseys, with maybe 15% Swans jerseys and 15% RL jerseys. Of those RL jerseys there were maybe half a dozen Souths & Sea Eagles jerseys, with a couple of Tigers, Dragons and CC Bears jerseys.

The Swans have visited the school twice in the past 3 years, as well as a soccer ex-International who plays for the soccer club. No RL player has attended the school since the Bears were punted.

 

[Perth Red]

But this could be fixed by teh ARLC and development programs and Jnr RL like the Coles program. It doens;t need a NRL team in every primary school catchment area.

We now have jnr and senior schools playing RL in Perth, 3 years ago not one. Good programs, especially in RL mad NSW were you have the advantage of media saturation for the game is what is needed not more NRL teams. Bears coming back in won;t make a difference unless they are going to go into every school regularly and I don;t know many NRL clubs that do that, his mates will still be playing soccer and so will he. ARLC/NSWRL hold the future for jnrs.

 

[BuffaloRules]

My son gets looked at in a mixture if shock and bewilderment when parents ask what he plays - its about 70% soccer, 20% Union, 8% AFL, 2% League. Granted there is more actual talk about NRL in years 5 & 6 - probably split equally 4 ways between EPL, AFL, Union and RL.

Thats my point...

Its what the kids talk about in the playground ...and as you said by the time they get to 10 or 11 its NRL.. Id love to know how many kids that age watching the EPL :sarcasm:

Rugby League has never been the most preferred sport that kids want to play, but a lot them play other sports and follow the NRL...

I doubt I can get more than 1 more year of RL out of him without the Bears - if the Bears aren't included I won't even bother.

Why wouldnt he want to play a sport that you say he is good at? Doesnt he have any friends in his weekend team?

 

[Joker's Wild]

Outstanding results for the RLW fan poll, which was nationwide....
Should the NRL expand? yes - 92%
Where? CC 46%, perth 29%, CQ 13%, brisbane Bombers 5%, Wellington 3%, PNG 2%, western corridor 2%.
Favourite ground? Bluetongue 26%, Suncorp 21%, rest below 10%.

Combined with the News Ltd poll, at least the fans opinion is clear...CC and Perth. And Bluetongue deservedly ranked best ground to watch footy at - along with Suncorp.

Lets see now if the ARLC listen/care about their customers......I know polls don't mean much but I'd rather be dominating them than not!

The players have a different opinion it seems...

Of 100 players polled 88 said they backed expansion. Those who voted yes were allowed to nominate one or two candidates. A Perth franchise received 66 votes, with Brisbane Bombers 33, Central Coast NSW 22 and 11 votes for others including Central Queensland, PNG, and second New Zealand based franchise.

Linkidink

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The players have a different opinion it seems...



Linkidink

Even so, if you were to take that poll into consideration and mix it in with all other polls. The Central Coast would still be #1 preferred based on sheer numbers, Perth 2nd and CQ 3rd. Brisbane Bombers have no momentum now (unlike when that poll was conducted).

Plus as important as the players are, much like the club's administrators do you think that the ARLC will listen to them in regards to the strategic future planning of the game? I mean they didn't even listen to the players regarding more concerning and current matters like rep scheduling etc.

 

[age.s]

Thats my point...

Its what the kids talk about in the playground ...and as you said by the time they get to 10 or 11 its NRL.. Id love to know how many kids that age watching the EPL :sarcasm:

Rugby League has never been the most preferred sport that kids want to play, but a lot them play other sports and follow the NRL...

Rugby League maintains a huge hold over Sydney because teams blanket the city and have for several generations. I played soccer throughout childhood (followed the EPL growing up too), but I always followed League because I had a "local" team. My friends had their "local" (or glory bound) teams, the media talked about our "local" teams and the interest spiraled from there.

The game lost a lot of that on the North Shore with the Bears removal.

 

[Perth Red]

Sydney needs to move beyond its suburban mentality. It's a big world out there and the idea that to follow the game you must have an NRL team at the end of the road is quickly disappearing. The existing teams need to cotton on to this as much as anyone and start spreading their appeal and geographical reach so that they encompass much bigger areas. The days of the NSWRL comp are over and we need to make sure that NSW is covered by the existing plethora of teams and that they find ways of connecting with the communities beyond their traditional reach.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Sydney needs to move beyond its suburban mentality. It's a big world out there and the idea that to follow the game you must have an NRL team at the end of the road is quickly disappearing. The existing teams need to cotton on to this as much as anyone and start spreading their appeal and geographical reach so that they encompass much bigger areas. The days of the NSWRL comp are over and we need to make sure that NSW is covered by the existing plethora of teams and that they find ways of connecting with the communities beyond their traditional reach.

Why should Rugby League be the only sport here in Australia to suddenly abandon what foundations it was created on? Sydney needs to stick to it's suburban mentality so the smaller clubs and their affiliated juniors can maintain and thrive in that tribalism in which the code was built on. At the same time, the NRL should also embrace the new frontiers. It should be a delicate process catering for both needs, not one over the other. That's also not to say that the Sydney clubs shouldn't expand their boundaries into interstate and further into country NSW regions to grasp as much support they individually can but at the end of the day, none of them should forget or abandon how/where and what they were built on/from.

 

[Beowulf]

Certainly the Bears coming back would only incrementally assist junior player numbers on the lower north shore - would impact more beneficially the further north you go. What it would do is keep afloat the three existing teams in this neck of the woods. The major benefit in this region would be for the viewership on FTA/Fox, digital on-selling opportunities and away games within Sydney crowds - especially beneficial for Manly, Roosters,Dragons, whose grounds are within striking distance of the lower north shore.

the other benefit of course is as a foothold in the wealthy north shore demographic for sponsors (they've never had a problem with sponsorship). A disproportionate amount of high level execs around town are former Bears fans who are dead keen to jump on board. Once the ARLC see who, I would hope expansion may be back on the agenda.

 

[Perth Red]

Why should Rugby League be the only sport here in Australia to suddenly abandon what foundations it was created on? Sydney needs to stick to it's suburban mentality so the smaller clubs and their affiliated juniors can maintain and thrive in that tribalism in which the code was built on. At the same time, the NRL should also embrace the new frontiers. It should be a delicate process catering for both needs, not one over the other. That's also not to say that the Sydney clubs shouldn't expand their boundaries into interstate and further into country NSW regions to grasp as much support they individually can but at the end of the day, none of them should forget or abandon how/where and what they were built on/from.

If we followed that logic to the nth degree we would all be following rugby union! Times change, cities change, societies change. Professional sport has changed and will continue to do so. Suburban leagues had a relevance when clubs didn't need a $15mill+ budget and families were born, lived and died down the same streets.

No one is saying ditch our heritage totally but it is a self defeating philosophy to believe that the only way of engaging jnrs and fans is to have a team in every major suburb of a city. Brisbane seems to be doing just fine with jnr development despite only having one NRL team representing the whole city.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

If we followed that logic to the nth degree we would all be following rugby union! Times change, cities change, societies change. Professional sport has changed and will continue to do so. Suburban leagues had a relevance when clubs didn't need a $15mill+ budget and families were born, lived and died down the same streets.

No one is saying ditch our heritage totally but it is a self defeating philosophy to believe that the only way of engaging jnrs and fans is to have a team in every major suburb of a city. Brisbane seems to be doing just fine with jnr development despite only having one NRL team representing the whole city.

Exactly times change and these suburbs aren't just suburbs any more, theyre big enough to be considered miniature cities within a city. They still have a better representation of people/ per team then most other interstate options. As for Brisbane, when they were brought it they decimated the BRL. Sure there are juniors for the one team but at what cost?

 

[Goddo]

Please, everyone stop going on about polls.

They mean nothing.

 

[Beowulf]

No one is saying ditch our heritage totally but it is a self defeating philosophy to believe that the only way of engaging jnrs and fans is to have a team in every major suburb of a city. Brisbane seems to be doing just fine with jnr development despite only having one NRL team representing the whole city.

In Sydney its the only way - the NRL/ARLC is and always will be a child of the NSWRL, which for 90 years became hugely successful BECAUSE of suburban tribalism. In NSW the game has lost much of its soul and most fans that can remember lament the loss of Newtown, Bears, Western Suburbs etc...for that reason I think the ARLC is loathe to promote too heavily the NSW Cup in case Sydneysiders realise they have a de facto NSWRL comp with those rivalries and traditional jerseys etc playing on the grounds they love to attend - NS Oval, Henson, Leichhardt. Kids can go onto the field pre/half/fulltime, grab the corner posts, backslap the players, go into the dressing rooms after a big win (at NS oval, anyway).

QLD wanted a piece of the NSWRL and they went another way - create a virtual State of origin team to take on the NSW teams - works perfecty well in QLD, and accounts for why no other QLD side in SEQ will ever be strong, but wouldn't work in NSW.

 

[Perth Red]

As I said times change and this mentality will become increasingly irrelevant as Sydney changes and populations move around.

 

[BuffaloRules]

the other benefit of course is as a foothold in the wealthy north shore demographic for sponsors (they've never had a problem with sponsorship). A disproportionate amount of high level execs around town are former Bears fans who are dead keen to jump on board. Once the ARLC see who, I would hope expansion may be back on the agenda.

But as a few of us are trying to argue here- the wealthiest part of the North Shore (Lower & middle) is turning towards Manly....