Central Coast Bears, 2013.

[marlene w 1]

The days of having nine teams in one city are over. Now something has to be done about it.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

But as a few of us are trying to argue here- the wealthiest part of the North Shore (Lower & middle) is turning towards Manly....

It doesn't matter anyway, it's the Central Coast that the Bears intend to represent. The north shore is a nice niche and provides many business and corporate opportunities but at the end of the day the ever growing Central Coast is the future for the franchise

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The days of having nine teams in one city are over. Now something has to be done about it.

So we cull most of iconic and established franchises? Because that will just do the code a world of good won't it? Or we could be smart, follow AFL'a lead and preserve the Sydney teams with all their traditions. They're a key element to the fundamental success of the game not the opposite. Eg. Look at Souths, Wests or St George/Illawarra when they are going good.

 

[clarency]

"When they are going good" is a foolish mentality. This is professional sport. There will always be a loser. A professional franchise should not rely on the prize money to pay the bills.

You Straw-manning regardless. It wouldn't be the iconic clubs that get axed if Sydney teams were to be relegated.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

"When they are going good" is a foolish mentality. This is professional sport. There will always be a loser. A professional franchise should not rely on the prize money to pay the bills.

You Straw-manning regardless. It wouldn't be the iconic clubs that get axed if Sydney teams were to be relegated.

At what cost though? Haven't these clubs for the most part been through enough shredders already post SL war? Sydney is still growing, it still harbours the traditions and foundations in which the game was built up from. Do we axe a Sydney club for an Adelaide franchise? Do we risk losing more fans and more money through court actions? Or do we play it smart and make sure these clubs are strong heading into the future, wrapped in traditions and kept growing nationally while still having that tribalism in Sydney metro. AFL teams like Collingwood. Carlton and Essedon do this well so what is to stop Souths, Wests or Parramatta from doing the same thing? Nothing, just fickle fans who would rather see pointless rapid redistribution instead of proper natural growth.

Edit: mind you in saying all that I do hope that eventually Perth, Adelaide, Central Queensland, Darwin all get franchises just not at the expense of existing clubs.

 

[clarency]

It all comes down to the philosophy of how RL should run. I think too much focus on NRL is part of the problem.

One of the things that really got me excited from the ARLC the most is when they announced they were going to look at restructuring the second tier of Australian RL. While the NRL is looking less likely to expand it's # of teams surely you can argue for the Bears (or just about ANY expansion team) to enter the NSW cup (or respective state cup) as a provisional step.

If you're asking me personally I think several Sydney clubs need to be relegated to NSW cup (note I'm saying relegate, not axing. I don't wish any club to "die") as it appears from recent history that they have plateaued and it is unlikely they will add much more value to the competition dollar wise than other teams. This in turn is holding the NRL back.

In my ideal world there would be increased exposure of all levels of rugby league, International, NRL, State cup etc. American Football is a good example. While the NFL is the pinacle of the sport, the State Cup and College Football League's still max out 80,000 stadiums. Even high school leagues can get 7-8,000 showing up to games.

But that's anoter story.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

It all comes down to the philosophy of how RL should run. I think too much focus on NRL is part of the problem.

One of the things that really got me excited from the ARLC the most is when they announced they were going to look at restructuring the second tier of Australian RL. While the NRL is looking less likely to expand it's # of teams surely you can argue for the Bears (or just about ANY expansion team) to enter the NSW cup (or respective state cup) as a provisional step.

If you're asking me personally I think several Sydney clubs need to be relegated to NSW cup (note I'm saying relegate, not axing. I don't wish any club to "die") as it appears from recent history that they have plateaued and it is unlikely they will add much more value to the competition dollar wise than other teams. This in turn is holding the NRL back.

In my ideal world there would be increased exposure of all levels of rugby league, International, NRL, State cup etc. American Football is a good example. While the NFL is the pinacle of the sport, the State Cup and College Football League's still max out 80,000 stadiums. Even high school leagues can get 7-8,000 showing up to games.

But that's anoter story.

With the American sports, maybe we need to ally schools with their local NSW Cup and Queensland Cup clubs and intertwine them, so we get that same passion which therefore transfers to crowds. Obviously junior clubs are already affiliated with these senior clubs but also attaching schools would be a boost. I'd also like to see TAFE's start a rugby league comp like college ball. Universities are too rugby in their systems, but TAFE'S much like public schools have a large following of rugby league fans thanks in partly due to trades. Just ideas which in hindsight aren't really relevant to this thread..

 

[Perth Red]

The sports governing body in both NRL and AFL have recognised that there needs to be rationalisation and that there are too many teams in their main cities to be viable. AFL have shifted some and offered serious money ($100mill) to try and encourage others to move out. ARL recognised in the 80's that something needed to be done and has slowly achieved some by mergers but there will come a day when the hard decisions will be needed.

I don't advocate for a 4 team sydney representing the 4 compass points but there are clearly some teams that due to their limited population areas and corporate pulling power are really going to struggle to keep up. Those teams can either expand their geographical bases in Sydney and beyond or keep praying the benevolent ARLC will throw them bones to keep them alive.

As you said Bears need to stop talking about Sydney and concentrate all their focus on being a regional team that represents an area outside the current over serviced Sydney market. I still feel though that being sandwiched between a growing Newcastle club and starving Sydney clubs is going to put the ARLC off seeing Gosford as a priority area for expansion.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I sometimes wish the ARL had stuck to their 12 team comp and SL had stuck to their 10 comp, and would have like to have seen which teams would be still around today.

All I seem to read and hear from expansion teams and proposed expansion teams is just how shit the NRL is because of Sydney teams.

As far as I was aware, YOU joined OUR comp.

 

[Perth Red]

As far as I was aware, YOU joined OUR comp.

and here in lies the problem, it is not the NSWRL comp any more, it is the top tier RL comp in the country (and beyond). Until we shift that paradigm the N in NRL will remain tokenism.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

As far as I was aware Nth Qld, Sth Qld, Western Reds, Auckland all signed on to an AUSTRALIAN RL, and within weeks of kicking off, took their 30 pieces of silver to join a rebel comp.

I'm just tired of hearing people WITHOUT a team telling people WITH a team we're wrong.

I am all for expanding. I've said it many times I want a Perth, 2nd Brisbane, Central Coast and Central Qld team.

However, it doesn't boil down to 'narrow mindedness' and 'fear' or 'selfishness'.

The last time Perth and a 2nd Brisbane team joined the comp, they were broke and dead within 2-3 years.

If they get it right this time, and as everyone keeps saying, there is a groundswell of support, junior base, sponsor dollars, etc then by all means come on in. I'd also like to see expansion teams put up a $20-30m guarantee to join the comp.

But one of the chief calls for Perth was for TV. Apparently, TV doesn't currently see a value in a Perth team.

Or the ARLC is keeping their cards close to their chest and are preparing behind the scenes. And if they are, it's because they are a business and not about to enter in to scuttlebutt on internet forums with nuffy nobodies.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The sports governing body in both NRL and AFL have recognised that there needs to be rationalisation and that there are too many teams in their main cities to be viable. AFL have shifted some and offered serious money ($100mill) to try and encourage others to move out. ARL recognised in the 80's that something needed to be done and has slowly achieved some by mergers but there will come a day when the hard decisions will be needed.

I don't advocate for a 4 team sydney representing the 4 compass points but there are clearly some teams that due to their limited population areas and corporate pulling power are really going to struggle to keep up. Those teams can either expand their geographical bases in Sydney and beyond or keep praying the benevolent ARLC will throw them bones to keep them alive.

As you said Bears need to stop talking about Sydney and concentrate all their focus on being a regional team that represents an area outside the current over serviced Sydney market. I still feel though that being sandwiched between a growing Newcastle club and starving Sydney clubs is going to put the ARLC off seeing Gosford as a priority area for expansion.

Sydney has been rationalized already. St George and Illawarra merged, Western Suburbs and Balmain merged and Norths relocated out only to be shifted. That's 5 teams into 2. How much rationalization do you want to achieve? Cronulla are safe, Souths, Canterbury and Easts won't be moving anytime soon. Parramatta, Penrith are needed in the west. Manly needed on the North. And still there is parts of Sydney (north) needing shoring up due to a black hole left.

Your motivates are to cut down the branches to allow new ones to grow. It's not the route to go, you need support of existing clubs to make sure when you club is brought in it flourishes. Wanting cannibalizing accomplishes nothing except angry and disenchanted fans.

 

[Jimmy Wiggle]

But one of the chief calls for Perth was for TV. Apparently, TV doesn't currently see a value in a Perth team.


Its not that TV don't see any value, its that the 2 channels who show the game won't gain anything by having a team over here.

People who want to watch NRL have Fox already and there are different owners of the other channel

 

[Perth Red]

Sydney has been rationalized already. St George and Illawarra merged, Western Suburbs and Balmain merged and Norths relocated out only to be shifted. That's 5 teams into 2. How much rationalization do you want to achieve? Cronulla are safe, Souths, Canterbury and Easts won't be moving anytime soon. Parramatta, Penrith are needed in the west. Manly needed on the North. And still there is parts of Sydney (north) needing shoring up due to a black hole left.

Your motivates are to cut down the branches to allow new ones to grow. It's not the route to go, you need support of existing clubs to make sure when you club is brought in it flourishes. Wanting cannibalizing accomplishes nothing except angry and disenchanted fans.

Any good gardner knows the key to strong new growth is hard pruning every now and again!

If it didn't effect our ability to expand and grow the game I wouldn't care if there were 5 or 15 clubs in Sydney. But reality is, and ARLC has pretty much confirmed, the financial problems the clubs face are impacting on our ability to to bring in new teams from new areas that will grow RL both nationally and internationally. The current answer to clubs struggling seems to be lets just give more money to them, sorry but that does not address the underlying problems of the game.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Any good gardner knows the key to strong new growth is hard pruning every now and again!

If it didn't effect our ability to expand and grow the game I wouldn't care if there were 5 or 15 clubs in Sydney. But reality is, and ARLC has pretty much confirmed, the financial problems the clubs face are impacting on our ability to to bring in new teams from new areas that will grow RL both nationally and internationally. The current answer to clubs struggling seems to be lets just give more money to them, sorry but that does not address the underlying problems of the game.

Yet in reality Melbourne Storm with all their success and super stars are actually struggling more than any Sydney team. They even need special allowances and needed to run on a News LTD loss for over a decade. You conveniently address the issues that maybe 3 Sydney teams are facing but ignore the massive sore thumb that is the Storms losses in profits. If they still can't turn over one, then theoretically what chances does a Perth or Adelaide franchise have? And those cities won't have the Smith's, Cronk's or Slater's selling the game. In hindsight their losses would impact more on expansion then say a St George or Manly income shortage. The Sydney teams have a history of turning bad finances around eg. Cronulla recently or Manly circa 05.

 

[flippikat]

As far as I was aware Nth Qld, Sth Qld, Western Reds, Auckland all signed on to an AUSTRALIAN RL, and within weeks of kicking off, took their 30 pieces of silver to join a rebel comp.

I can't vouch for the Cowboys, but I'd say the Reds probably needed the money because of the transport costs they had to cover.

The Warriors, meanwhile were put in an unenviable position when the NZRL became aligned with Superleague - it was a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' decision to make.

 

[Perth Red]

Yet in reality Melbourne Storm with all their success and super stars are actually struggling more than any Sydney team. They even need special allowances and needed to run on a News LTD loss for over a decade. You conveniently address the issues that maybe 3 Sydney teams are facing but ignore the massive sore thumb that is the Storms losses in profits. If they still can't turn over one, then theoretically what chances does a Perth or Adelaide franchise have? And those cities won't have the Smith's, Cronk's or Slater's selling the game. In hindsight their losses would impact more on expansion then say a St George or Manly income shortage. The Sydney teams have a history of turning bad finances around eg. Cronulla recently or Manly circa 05.

Thing is storm have had, what, 12 years or so to establish themselves in a city with no league heritage and little league interest or exposure prior to them entering. Despite that they are not the worst supported club in the nrl, they are not the least income earning club in the nrl and the tv viewing figures out of Victoria on the back of their introduction is massive for the showcase events. If the figures are to be believed the storm operate on one of the biggest budgets in the comp, around $18-20mill. The nrl top up is to ensure they remain strong and can promote the game in that region.

In regards to Perth, league is much much stronger here than in Melbourne, even now after all the years the nrl has been in Melbourne. We consistently beat Vic at age levels, we produce more nrl players, we have more Jnrs playing the game, we draw bigger crowds, the warl is better backed than the Vrl etc etc. Those things will only grow with an nrl team to give the game a bigger presence in Perth.

Adelaide is a different kettle of fish and much more like melbourne was when they introduced the storm, hence why there is no way Adelaide will be back in the nrl for a long time to come.

 

[RedVee]

If Tinklers woes continue, I wonder how long before he attempts to snaffle the merger money by suggesting a linkage with the CC Bears (without Nth Sydney I'd assume).

Just something that popped into my head.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Florimo has written an article on The Punch about the Bears...

Some interesting comments...

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/This-football-bid-bears-serious-consideration/

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Florimo has written an article on The Punch about the Bears...

Some interesting comments...

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/This-football-bid-bears-serious-consideration/

Was about to post this but I've been out all day

This football bid bears serious consideration
by Greg Florimo

This is my toughest battle yet. I played a lot of rugby league but the battle for an opportunity to bid for an NRL licence has been the toughest game of my career.

The history is well known. The Bears were forced into an unhappy merger with the Manly Sea Eagles after the Super League war, the partnership broke down and one of the League?s foundation clubs was left stateless.

But it is the future that really matters ? and the opportunity for the new Commission to make a simple decision that will lock rugby league into one of its emerging heartlands while paying respect to our great game?s traditions.

For the past three years I have been working with a group of loyal supporters to establish the Central Coast Bears in the Rugby League heartland of Gosford, NSW.

It would be an under-statement to describe this as an effort of extreme perseverance and passion, the core ingredients in any pursuit. This has propelled our bid into a position of strong consideration with the Australian Rugby League Commission?s strategy for growth of the game.

It is our job now to show the ARLC that expansion of the game is fundamental to the growth of the game. We think our case is compelling.

If expansion is to take place, it has to be for the right reasons. Progressing Rugby League can be achieved in many ways, however if the game itself is to be sustainable then the attention to and the development of grassroots is vital.

For us to even consider taking the game to the far reaches of our continent and beyond, we need to be sure that there is a continual flow of top class players into the system.

The level of athleticism and courage shown by our players today make the game the spectacle that it is, and those qualities are hard-earned and not just everybody can play like Greg Inglis. The Central Coast Bears could catapult any one of over 7,000 registered players to the heights of a Greg Inglis.

We recognise there are concerns from some existing clubs that an extra team on the Central Coast will drain resources. But the reality is that leaving the Central Coast without a club will drive youngsters to other codes like soccer and AFL.

It is up to us to show the Commission that we will not impact on current revenues within the game, that we will in fact generate new income through sponsors and advertisers, and also through re-engaging the heritage of the Bears brand.

It is up to us to ensure that we do not weaken the competition by stretching player or coaching ranks, in fact we will broaden the base of talented players simply by providing an added opportunity to play at the top level.

It is up to us to prove to the existing clubs that we won?t impact on their financial capability, in fact we will only add to their bottom line when they host the Bears at their home ground. It is up to us.

But I am confident that the Central Coast Bears bid can clear all these hurdles.

You may have heard much of this dialogue before. While there has not as yet been any invitation from the NRL/ARLC to submit our plans for the Central Coast Bears, we are hopeful that it is just around the corner.

That?s why we are asking for all League fans to petition the new Commission to make clear their expansion plans before the end of the 2012 season. We think all those preparing for expansion deserve to know what the path to expansion looks like.

For 12 years we have fought the good fight. We have built the club to this point so that it is merely the stroke of a pen needed to bring it to life. Our membership continues to grow with over 7,800 members ? with more than 26,000 supporters on Facebook.

We have a tailor made facility for playing Rugby League, Bluetongue Stadium which has to be one of the best Stadiums in the game for viewing, and don?t forget the massive event that would be Central Coast Bears v Manly at North Sydney Oval.

In so many ways, a team on the Central Coast wearing Bears colours could only add strength to Rugby League. It remains my toughest challenge, but I will not be giving up as long the red and black stuff pumps through my veins.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/This-football-bid-bears-serious-consideration/