17th TEAM

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think you’d agree there is no bigger apathetic or hostile facing club than gws?
I mean it’s set up in the very heart of RL population. So the must be really struggling to attract sponsors right? Oh hang on
Kia
Toyo tires
Virgin
Harvey Norman
St George bank
Efex
McDonald’s
Tab
And more

there goes your theory!

They view rugby union and fumbleball as upper class and rugby league as a working man's game. Few people watch rugby in this country and Super Rugby is boxed behind a pay wall, but the 4 clubs get pretty good sponsors. More people watch NRL than AFL yet companies line up to throw money at the fumblers. If these companies are willing to waste their money on second rate sports like fumbleball and union due to classism then putting a team in Perth and Adelaide isn't going to do anything.

NRL owns regional Australia with teams in Canberra, NQ, GC, Illawarra and Newcastle. That should mean something.

 

[flippikat]

NRL owns regional Australia with teams in Canberra, NQ, GC, Illawarra and Newcastle. That should mean something.

Yeah, but that stems from the fact that NRL heartland (NSW/Qld) has bigger regional towns than AFL heartland, towns that can sustain clubs in the top tier.
The AFL never really had the option to put top-tier teams outside Adelaide, Perth/Freemantle & Melbourne, because it just ain't viable. The only option would've been Geelong, but they inherited a team there from the VFL competition they grew from.

Turns out, that's been a blessing for the AFL in a way, because they could focus on a "derby in every capital" expansion strategy - in fact it was probably the only option they had.

Of course NRL owns it's regional heartland, they've spent the 80s and 90s focusing on expanding into it at top tier!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yeah, but that stems from the fact that NRL heartland (NSW/Qld) has bigger regional towns than AFL heartland, towns that can sustain clubs in the top tier.
The AFL never really had the option to put top-tier teams outside Adelaide, Perth/Freemantle & Melbourne, because it just ain't viable. The only option would've been Geelong, but they inherited a team there from the VFL competition they grew from.

Turns out, that's been a blessing for the AFL in a way, because they could focus on a "derby in every capital" expansion strategy - in fact it was probably the only option they had.

Of course NRL owns it's regional heartland, they've spent the 80s and 90s focusing on expanding into it at top tier!

The biggest advantage of having regions QLD and NSW sewn up is over 50% of Aussies live in Queensland and NSW. Companies who are smart will take advantage of this.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm not sure what you think I mean by "targetting", I'm not suggesting they relocate or pour millions in to random towns. It shouldn't be a priority over the Gold Coast but absolutely as the closest team they should be targetting a presence in Northern NSW.

I'm in the Riverina regularly for work, judging by the teamwear I see Raiders are very well supported there, is that a bad thing?

If it happens naturally it's whatever, but investing precious time and resources trying to get a share of market that you are never going to take a major slice of, unless you more or less relocate there, is a waste of time and energy.

That time and those resources would be better spent back home, where you're more likely to convert people into fans, and they are more likely to spend more money on the club.

 

[The Great Dane]

To be fair the Raiders do get a lot of support from Queanbeyan. Across the border and where the club was born.

Somewhat similar actually to the Gold Coast situation with the Seagulls coming from across the border. Is there much of a culture difference?

But I guess the State of Origin divide is a big one that Canberra/Queanbeyan doesn't have.

Canberra and Queanbeyan are sister cities to the point that it's hard to tell where one starts and the other one begins. People on both sides of the border don't like admitting this, but they're basically one big city now. So yeah, the situation in Canberra-Queanbeyan is vastly different to what's being talked about on the GC.

What would be more applicable would be other attempts by Canberra based clubs to spread into broader Southern NSW, which are always an unmitigated disaster that end up turning more people in Canberra off than the new fans that they get outside of Canberra, and in general the people that they do get from outside of Canberra aren't as valuable to the club as fans based in Canberra because they aren't in a good position to be active fans.

 

[The Great Dane]

shows how conned those companies are by the AFL lol is there a more unpopular sports club in the whole country than GWS?
now I am not knocking the AFL's ambition to expand and have a second Sydney club but that club are HATED by not only many people in Western Sydney but the AFL community as a whole. It's full of players from Victoria, SA, WA who would never set foot in Blacktown or Cabramatta unless you paid them. They hide away in the inner west of Breakfast Point and then run back home to mummy and daddy during the AFL offseason. Then there is the token representation of Canberra.
It's really nice that sponsors are lining up to be involved in this plastic franchise that hardly anyone cares about except the suits at AFL HQ.

When a sponsor signs with GWS, the Suns, etc, etc, they're not just advertising to those clubs fans, they're advertising to every club in the AFL's fan-base and anybody that sees any media from the AFL including the team they sponsor.

That means if you sponsor e.g. GWS you get direct exposure in every major market in the country, if you sponsor an NRL club you pay a similar amount and you only get direct exposure in half the major markets in the country.

 

[The Great Dane]

The biggest advantage of having regions QLD and NSW sewn up is over 50% of Aussies live in Queensland and NSW. Companies who are smart will take advantage of this.

I hate this idea that just by having a team in a market that it some how makes it yours. That's simply not how the economy or supply and demand works.

 

[Perth Red]

They view rugby union and fumbleball as upper class and rugby league as a working man's game. Few people watch rugby in this country and Super Rugby is boxed behind a pay wall, but the 4 clubs get pretty good sponsors. More people watch NRL than AFL yet companies line up to throw money at the fumblers. If these companies are willing to waste their money on second rate sports like fumbleball and union due to classism then putting a team in Perth and Adelaide isn't going to do anything.

NRL owns regional Australia with teams in Canberra, NQ, GC, Illawarra and Newcastle. That should mean something.

make your mind up, first it was they won’t get sponsors with no one watching them, when I showed a club that has managed to do that you say it’s because RL is working class game lol.

 

[Perth Red]

Yeah, but that stems from the fact that NRL heartland (NSW/Qld) has bigger regional towns than AFL heartland, towns that can sustain clubs in the top tier.
The AFL never really had the option to put top-tier teams outside Adelaide, Perth/Freemantle & Melbourne, because it just ain't viable. The only option would've been Geelong, but they inherited a team there from the VFL competition they grew from.

Turns out, that's been a blessing for the AFL in a way, because they could focus on a "derby in every capital" expansion strategy - in fact it was probably the only option they had.

Of course NRL owns it's regional heartland, they've spent the 80s and 90s focusing on expanding into it at top tier!

also that it’s half the price to r7n a nrl club than it costs to run a afl club so you can be in smaller markets, if your only aiming for crowds of 15k and $25mill revenue then small cities are fine. When you waNt 35k crowds and $50mill revenue you need to be in a major city.
Population of WA SW wouldn’t be far off NQ but no way you could sustain an afl club in Bunbury.

 

[Perth Red]

The biggest advantage of having regions QLD and NSW sewn up is over 50% of Aussies live in Queensland and NSW. Companies who are smart will take advantage of this.

and afl own the other 50%. The victor will be the one who can eat into the others half significantly. Afl has a 25 year head start and no sign the nrl has any great idea how to catch up.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

and afl own the other 50%. The victor will be the one who can eat into the others half significantly. Afl has a 25 year head start and no sign the nrl has any great idea how to catch up.

Vic, SA, WA, NT, Tas have less than 50% of Australia's population. South Australia's population is smaller than greater Perth. The only major Australian city RL is missing out on is Perth. If it can get a foothold there then it will be set for life. Adelaide would be nice to add to the bow, but it is so far behind Perth and so small in comparison it won't be on the radar for the next 30-50 years. Increase the stronghold in Brisbane, retain the game's position in Sydney, build on Perth and NZ. That should be the ARLC's focus.

In an ideal world Super Rugby would fall over and the ARLC would capitalise by splitting the NRL into 2 conferences of 12, one run by the NSWRL with expansion teams from Canberra, Melbourne and Perth, the other shared between QRL, NZRL and PNGRFL. It could add a few Brisbane teams, a few from NZ and 1 or 2 from PNG. Salary cap would have to be reduced and stronger caps placed on spending by football departments to keep all clubs sustainable, but the extra content from having more teams in NZ, PNG and Brisbane would make the broadcast rights more valuable. It's the only way I can see all areas getting the teams they deserve and for the game to kill off RU permanently in Aus and make serious inroads into NZ. It would be a golden opportunity to poach even more junior RU players from NZ. Foxtel would be even more necessary for RL fans because if you're a NSWelshman living in QLD it would be the only place to see your teams play, and vice versa if you're a QLDer in NSW. FTA can run Queensland games in Queensland, NSW games in NSW, NZ games in NZ. Perth and Melbourne would be screened into their home cities.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

make your mind up, first it was they won’t get sponsors with no one watching them, when I showed a club that has managed to do that you say it’s because RL is working class game lol.

Fumbleball gets money chucked at it because the elites think it is watched and played by people from all demographics. The AFL is very good at convincing the big suits that fumbleball is the game that made Australia and invented women's sport.

If it's all about dots on maps, how do you explain rugby union getting so many high profile companies to back their clubs in this country? They're not any more national than RL and they're far less popular. Only reason can be the advertisers think RU and AFL fans have more disposable income to spend because it's assumed they're from wealthier backgrounds. It's not uncommon knowledge that RL's heritage is tied to the working class. I'm saying if it's all about popularity and exposure to as many markets as possible, then RL would be getting more than the AFL.

You cannot tell me the NZ market isn't worth more than SA/WA. Our game is also played in and broadcast into other countries. Signing up with an NRL club is a good way for global companies to get their product shown to a wider audience. You cannot do that by sponsoring a fumbleball club.

 

[jim_57]

If it happens naturally it's whatever, but investing precious time and resources trying to get a share of market that you are never going to take a major slice of, unless you more or less relocate there, is a waste of time and energy.

That time and those resources would be better spent back home, where you're more likely to convert people into fans, and they are more likely to spend more money on the club.

Firstly I think you're overstating the interstate divide when it comes to supporting clubs. I grew up in in Central Queenland and have lived in several towns across the state. Plenty of the most enthusiastic "QUEENSLANDERRR!" supporters you'd find on Origin day had no issue supporting Sydney teams every other day of the year. Titans are hardly the most QLD-Centric club in reality or perception either.

Secondly the Raiders are taking games to Wagga, do you disagree with those? As I said from observation they appear very well supported from teamwear you see on the streets or at the pub, those people have obviously spent money on the club.

I'm struggling to see how it's such a bad idea for the Titans to spent a modest amount of time and effort building connections in an area that has them as the closest team. They won't win over too many adults but it should be aimed mainly at kids.

Obviously the bulk of their efforts should be based in the Gold Coast but some school clinics, free tickets, community appearances etc between Tweed and Coffs Harbour aren't going to send them broke and should reap benifits in the long run.

 

[taipan]

and afl own the other 50%. The victor will be the one who can eat into the others half significantly. Afl has a 25 year head start and no sign the nrl has any great idea how to catch up.

And after the 25 year head start, their(AFL) Tv ratings in the Nth States are still crap.With all the promotions,PR ,giveaways, draft picks, huge sums expended.
They tried to get NZ interested where we have a team, and that lasted 5 minutes.Hell Pacific Island nations are now getting more interested in the NRL.
They poached Folau and expected all the PI kids ,would want to cuddle a Sherrin. That theory went out the window.
The ARL had $20m plus in the bank in 95, the AFL $6m.Ask yourself what happened in 95 and where the $20m plus went.
They(AFL) haven't got their comp up and running nor settled on a Tv deal currently and the future.They even acknowledged the NRL is on the front foot.

 

[greenBV4]

Firstly I think you're overstating the interstate divide when it comes to supporting clubs. I grew up in in Central Queenland and have lived in several towns across the state. Plenty of the most enthusiastic "QUEENSLANDERRR!" supporters you'd find on Origin day had no issue supporting Sydney teams every other day of the year. Titans are hardly the most QLD-Centric club in reality or perception either.

Secondly the Raiders are taking games to Wagga, do you disagree with those? As I said from observation they appear very well supported from teamwear you see on the streets or at the pub, those people have obviously spent money on the club.

I'm struggling to see how it's such a bad idea for the Titans to spent a modest amount of time and effort building connections in an area that has them as the closest team. They won't win over too many adults but it should be aimed mainly at kids.

Obviously the bulk of their efforts should be based in the Gold Coast but some school clinics, free tickets, community appearances etc between Tweed and Coffs Harbour aren't going to send them broke and should reap benifits in the long run.

I grew up on the north coast and was living there when the titans entered the comp, they had a fair few people adopt them in the first couple of years, and alot as a second team, and I remember seeing heaps of school clinics, and even daily tv adverts just after prime time, I dont know if they are still doing this though, but would guess that they aren't.

All the local comps were (maybe still are?) Apart of the titans system as well

The state divide in club land isnt really that big a deal for a good chunk of people living up there, if anything theres just as big a distaste for Sydney in a city vs country sort of way (a common saying was that NSW stands for Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong, and the gov doesnt give a shit about anyone anywhere else), You'd also be surprised how many people unfortunately support the Maroons up there over the Blues, despite never living in QLD "we're closer to Brisbane than Sydney anyway" was a common reasoning.

Pretty much what I'm getting at is there is definately potential for the Titans to increase there foothold on the NC, and state borders aren't that big a deal, especially since the GC is a border town anyway

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I live in SW Sydney.

I'm a Titans member. No BS.

 

[jim_57]

I grew up on the north coast and was living there when the titans entered the comp, they had a fair few people adopt them in the first couple of years, and alot as a second team, and I remember seeing heaps of school clinics, and even daily tv adverts just after prime time, I dont know if they are still doing this though, but would guess that they aren't.

All the local comps were (maybe still are?) Apart of the titans system as well

The state divide in club land isnt really that big a deal for a good chunk of people living up there, if anything theres just as big a distaste for Sydney in a city vs country sort of way (a common saying was that NSW stands for Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong, and the gov doesnt give a shit about anyone anywhere else), You'd also be surprised how many people unfortunately support the Maroons up there over the Blues, despite never living in QLD "we're closer to Brisbane than Sydney anyway" was a common reasoning.

Pretty much what I'm getting at is there is definately potential for the Titans to increase there foothold on the NC, and state borders aren't that big a deal, especially since the GC is a border town anyway

Thanks for the insight.

It'd be a shame if they have stopped community/school programs. Based on what you've said there's no reason they couldn't be easily the best supported team on the North Coast in 10-20 years.

Titans have been a basket case which has crippled their growth so far, I'd imagine if they could string a few sucessful seasons together we'd see them fulfill some of the potential shown when they were added to the comp.

 

[flippikat]

You cannot tell me the NZ market isn't worth more than SA/WA. Our game is also played in and broadcast into other countries. Signing up with an NRL club is a good way for global companies to get their product shown to a wider audience. You cannot do that by sponsoring a fumbleball club.

Bringing this back to expansion - The Warriors bring a lot financially to the NRL, true.. but IMO a 2nd NZ team won't bring as much to the table as a Perth, or even an Adelaide team - and I say that as a Kiwi who'd love to see 2 or 3 NRL clubs based here in NZ.

Perth has 2 million people, Adelaide more than a million & getting towards 1.5 - those are BIG concentrated markets, AFL-centric or not. You could say "Yes, but a rivalry between two Kiwi NRL clubs will be huge".. but Perth and Adelaide have rusted-on rivalries across a number of sports against other state capitals - Adelaide V Melbourne would be huge in tiddlywinks.

I'm fine with waiting our turn until Australia has a truly national NRL footprint first.

 

[The Great Dane]

Firstly I think you're overstating the interstate divide when it comes to supporting clubs. I grew up in in Central Queenland and have lived in several towns across the state. Plenty of the most enthusiastic "QUEENSLANDERRR!" supporters you'd find on Origin day had no issue supporting Sydney teams every other day of the year. Titans are hardly the most QLD-Centric club in reality or perception either.

Secondly the Raiders are taking games to Wagga, do you disagree with those? As I said from observation they appear very well supported from teamwear you see on the streets or at the pub, those people have obviously spent money on the club.

The only reason that they are playing games in Wagga is because it was quid pro quo for funding from the NSW government to build the club's centre of excellence.

And yes it is a massive waste of time and energy that won't achieve anything for either the Raiders (aside from the money) or RL in the long term.
It won't build a steady fan-base for the Raiders in Wagga, and it won't do much of anything for RL locally in Wagga in the long term.

If you want to make a significant long term impact for the sport in country NSW (or anywhere else) you need a local solution to a local problem, and that means getting people supporting local teams.

I'm struggling to see how it's such a bad idea for the Titans to spent a modest amount of time and effort building connections in an area that has them as the closest team. They won't win over too many adults but it should be aimed mainly at kids.

Obviously the bulk of their efforts should be based in the Gold Coast but some school clinics, free tickets, community appearances etc between Tweed and Coffs Harbour aren't going to send them broke and should reap benifits in the long run.

It's a bad idea because A. the resources it would take would be better used on the GC, and B. for the effort and investment that it takes the return is not worth it.

They'll waste days and thousands of dollars, that could have been spent on the GC, doing appearances all over Northern NSW trying to woo people the vast majority of whom will rarely if ever attend a game and are extremely unlikely to regularly spend money on the club in any form.

For the same effort they could carpet bomb the GC with marketing and community engagement, where every person that they get on board is significantly more likely to become a member/season ticket holder, or at least attend games, and is more likely to buy merchandise and just spend money on the club just in general.

 

[The Great Dane]

I grew up on the north coast and was living there when the titans entered the comp, they had a fair few people adopt them in the first couple of years, and alot as a second team, and I remember seeing heaps of school clinics, and even daily tv adverts just after prime time, I dont know if they are still doing this though, but would guess that they aren't.

All the local comps were (maybe still are?) Apart of the titans system as well

The state divide in club land isnt really that big a deal for a good chunk of people living up there, if anything theres just as big a distaste for Sydney in a city vs country sort of way (a common saying was that NSW stands for Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong, and the gov doesnt give a shit about anyone anywhere else), You'd also be surprised how many people unfortunately support the Maroons up there over the Blues, despite never living in QLD "we're closer to Brisbane than Sydney anyway" was a common reasoning.

Pretty much what I'm getting at is there is definately potential for the Titans to increase there foothold on the NC, and state borders aren't that big a deal, especially since the GC is a border town anyway

Ummhmm, and how many were traveling up for games regularly, probably about 1 in a 1000 right, if that?!

So, in real terms, all that having a foothold on the NC actually got the Titans as a club was a few more people watching them on TV and the opportunity flog off the odd piece of merch.

What they want/need is more customers, and there is significantly more potential to grow their customer base on the GC then in Northern NSW.