18th club, whose next?

[siv]

I love this travel argument

Lets say team 18 is Brisbane 3

A travel is more than 3h by car/bus

Now the following clubs will travel 100% in any model ie 12 trips
- Canberra
- Melbourne
- Nth Qld
- Warriors

While the following Qld teams will always be in the same conference - 9 travels
- Broncos
- Dolphins
- Titans
- Brisbane 3

Then there is Newcastle
- Regional conference model 8 travels

The rest in Regional conference model
- 5/6 travels due to Magic round/ regional game

This wont change in whatever model you use

 

[Perth Red]

I love this travel argument

Lets say team 18 is Brisbane 3

A travel is more than 3h by car/bus

Now the following clubs will travel 100% in any model ie 12 trips
- Canberra
- Melbourne
- Nth Qld
- Warriors

While the following Qld teams will always be in the same conference - 9 travels
- Broncos
- Dolphins
- Titans
- Brisbane 3

Then there is Newcastle
- Regional conference model 8 travels

The rest in Regional conference model
- 5/6 travels due to Magic round/ regional game

This wont change in whatever model you use

Again it’s not what those clubs have to travel, they have to travel a lot regardless. it’s in comparison to the ones who are hardly doing any travel and therefore get an advantage. At e,ast if you split the conference then Sydney clubs have to do some travelling to even it out A bit.

 

[siv]

Again it’s not what those clubs have to travel, they have to travel a lot regardless. it’s in comparison to the ones who are hardly doing any travel and therefore get an advantage. At e,ast if you split the conference then Sydney clubs have to do some travelling to even it out A bit.

Try and disect anyway you want - you will see similar results

Even if its Sydney 50 50 between conferences. Qld 4 would be in the same conference

Remote clubs, Canberra, Storm, Warriors, Cowboys - 12 travels

Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, Brisbane 3 - 9 travels

Splitting the other 10 clubs 50-50 means they do 4 travels in their pool and 2 cross pool travels

So still 6 travels

Newcastle is the club slightly better off

But the trade off is only one Cowboys v Broncos game per year

 

[marshall stalin]

I love this travel argument

Lets say team 18 is Brisbane 3

A travel is more than 3h by car/bus

Now the following clubs will travel 100% in any model ie 12 trips
- Canberra
- Melbourne
- Nth Qld
- Warriors

While the following Qld teams will always be in the same conference - 9 travels
- Broncos
- Dolphins
- Titans
- Brisbane 3

Then there is Newcastle
- Regional conference model 8 travels

The rest in Regional conference model
- 5/6 travels due to Magic round/ regional game

This wont change in whatever model you use

Way Way Too much is being made of travelling though - It's part of their job no matter which team they would play for it will involve travel.

When you look at the travel teams in overseas sporting comps do it is very very very very very minimal in the NRL compared to these teams.

As i said on another post quite a few of the Atlanta Braves players and Manager/Coaches hadn't been home since January and their season finished when they won game 6 of the World Series in early November. They been travelling all over the US living out of suitcases racking up millions of flying miles and across multiple times zones etc etc.

Only a few of the players live in Atlanta

Didn't seem to impair their performances - in fact they got better the longer the season went - it was a long season - Pre-season is 8 to 10 games 162 game Regular Season / Division Series play off's 4 games/ National League Championship series 6 games/ World Series Championship Series 6 games

2021 Atlanta Braves Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

Atlanta Braves latest stats and more including batting stats, pitching stats, team fielding totals and more on Baseball-Reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[marshall stalin]

Again it’s not what those clubs have to travel, they have to travel a lot regardless. it’s in comparison to the ones who are hardly doing any travel and therefore get an advantage. At e,ast if you split the conference then Sydney clubs have to do some travelling to even it out A bit.

It's their job though - if they want to play they have to travel to away games simple as that- the travel is so minimal it should hardly rate a mention.

Look up major domestic sporting comps across the world and see how much travel is involved- players in those comps would be laughing if this was the travel they had to do - distance and number wise as well as shaking their heads if any NRL player complained about it.

Yes some complain already - they have a choice quit or swallow a bag of cement and harden up - they are well paid and well looked after and have naught to complain about it.

Bring on the 2 conferences i say

 

[Colk]

I don’t get the idea of conferences. Its like the 6 again rule - it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

On the 18th side, whatever direction they decide to go with, they just need to better with the introduction of the next side then they have had with pretty much any side they have introduced in the last 30 years, barring the Storm who were very fortunate. The Dolphins, for example, has been an absolute disaster and the NRL needs to start giving new teams assistance to help them to get established rather than seeing them purely as a cash cow for greater TV money.

If they decide to go for NZ 2, for example, I would give them and the Warriors salary cap dispensations to poach rugby union talent in order to drum up interest and boast their competitiveness

 

[Perth Red]

Ea

It's their job though - if they want to play they have to travel to away games simple as that- the travel is so minimal it should hardly rate a mention.

Look up major domestic sporting comps across the world and see how much travel is involved- players in those comps would be laughing if this was the travel they had to do - distance and number wise as well as shaking their heads if any NRL player complained about it.

Yes some complain already - they have a choice quit or swallow a bag of cement and harden up - they are well paid and well looked after and have naught to complain about it.

Bring on the 2 conferences i say

easy to say but as a player if you have the choice between a club that travels a lot and one that very rarely travels which you choosing? Conferences have to hav e nsw clubs split evenly between them so travel is at least partly equitable.

 

[MugaB]

Ea

easy to say but as a player if you have the choice between a club that travels a lot and one that very rarely travels which you choosing? Conferences have to hav e nsw clubs split evenly between them so travel is at least partly equitable.

Yeah PR, it just isn't getting thru, i see the fault in conferences straightaway, everytime the "Sydney conf" gets brought up, all it does is promote Sydney clubs moreso to any 1st grade player as the better option in the market and interstate clubs will suffer via paying overs, to get marquee players to sign, as evident with Canberra, GC, Nth Qld and Newcastle having a history with getting stars to play and stay for them, if the comp was divided evenly by spliting sydney in two then adding the rest to each, then it wouldn't be much different to what it is now, but with a Sydney only conference, and the rest conference it will be far worse.

Its very close minded to say "but they travel anyway" that's not the point, the point is a whole other conference won't be traveling, the advantage is huge, especially since we are trying to promote more interstate/overseas expansion clubs, the best way to boost rivalries is to use conferences yes, but it has to boost every club in the NRL equally

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I think you’re perhaps being optimistic on the last point. I just don’t see the desire to go to either (in particular Adelaide). I think 18 is the magical number unless they see another Brisbane side in the offing in say 10 to 15 years.

I definitely am being optimistic - lol. However, it's possible that after Redcliffe and NZ2, the game may open its eyes to the value of expanding the game and Perth and Adelaide will be the two large markets that remain untapped for the game.

 

[marshall stalin]

Yeah PR, it just isn't getting thru, i see the fault in conferences straightaway, everytime the "Sydney conf" gets brought up, all it does is promote Sydney clubs moreso to any 1st grade player as the better option in the market and interstate clubs will suffer via paying overs, to get marquee players to sign, as evident with Canberra, GC, Nth Qld and Newcastle having a history with getting stars to play and stay for them, if the comp was divided evenly by spliting sydney in two then adding the rest to each, then it wouldn't be much different to what it is now, but with a Sydney only conference, and the rest conference it will be far worse.

Its very close minded to say "but they travel anyway" that's not the point, the point is a whole other conference won't be traveling, the advantage is huge, especially since we are trying to promote more interstate/overseas expansion clubs, the best way to boost rivalries is to use conferences yes, but it has to boost every club in the NRL equally

The point is the 4 QLD and 2 NZ teams will be in the same conference so why can't the Sydney teams be in the same conference if your all about equity.

Can't imagine the NRL putting 2 QLD teams in one conference and 2 in the other - ditto for the 2 NZ teams

As far as travelling goes the Sydney teams will be travelling - it can take in excess of 1 1/2 hours to drive from the Northern Beaches/ Eastern Suburbs to Penrith for an example.- 3 hour plus round trip.

Raiders travel by bus to Sydney - 3 1/2 hours each way - 7 hours trip duration in any case

Maybe Canberra/ Gold Coast/North Queensland and Newcastle are not desired locations to live in why they may not be able to sign players though

The travel will be spaced out though - teams play teams in their conference - 8 games - play teams in the other conference - 9 games and teams in their conference a second time - 8 games

Chartered flights can be arranged as they have been used before.

 

[marshall stalin]

Again it’s not what those clubs have to travel, they have to travel a lot regardless. it’s in comparison to the ones who are hardly doing any travel and therefore get an advantage. At e,ast if you split the conference then Sydney clubs have to do some travelling to even it out A bit.

How would splitting the Sydney teams between the 2 conferences reduce the travel for Storm/ Raiders/NZ teams/Knights/ 4 QLD team though

For the Storm/Knights/Raiders the travel would be 4 trips to QLD/ 2 to NZ/ 2 to the other teams ground and 4 or 5 trips to Sydney - 12 or 13 trips - same number as now

As i said the travel would be spread out

i.e Melbourne for an example- be the same for the Raiders and Knights

First 8 games against teams in their conference - 2 trips to QLD/ 1 to NZ and 1 to either Canberra or Newcastle- 4 away games

9 games against the other conference teams - either 4 or 5 trips to Sydney- 4 or 5 away games

Second 8 games against teams in their conference - 2 trips to QLD/ 1 to NZ and 1 to either Canberra or Newcastle- 4 away games

Qld teams - remembering that Broncs/Dolphins play at Suncorp and Titans are an hour away

First 8 games against teams in their conference- 1 or 2 games in QLD/ 1 Trip to NZ and 1 to either Canberra/Melbourne/Newcastle - 4 away games

9 games against the other conference teams - either 4 or 5 trips to Sydney- 4 or 5 away games

Second 8 games against teams in their conference - 1 or 2 games in QLD/ 1 Trip to NZ and 1 to either Canberra/Melbourne/Newcastle - 4 away games

NZ Teams- remembering that Broncs/Dolphins play at Suncorp and Titans are an hour away

First 8 games against teams in their conference - 2 trips to QLD/ 1 in NZ and 1 to either Canberra or Newcastle or Melbourne- 4 away games

9 games against the other conference teams - either 4 or 5 trips to Sydney- 4 or 5 away games

Second 8 games against teams in their conference - 2 trips to QLD/ 1 in NZ and 1 to either Canberra or Newcastle or Melbourne- 4 away games

Hardly excessive travel one has to say and in fact the travel is much easier when spread out as per above including the grouping of teams in this conference

Storm/Knights/Raiders have a flight 1 flight to Townsville and 2 to NZ - the rest are easily accessable in a short time period - i.e Brisbane to play Bronco's and Dolphins and GC to play the Titans and fights to either Melbourne/Newcastle/Canberra

4 or 5 short flights to Sydney as well

 

[marshall stalin]

Ea

easy to say but as a player if you have the choice between a club that travels a lot and one that very rarely travels which you choosing? Conferences have to hav e nsw clubs split evenly between them so travel is at least partly equitable.

This is for an 18 team comp - when you look at the travel though it's minimal and should hardly rate a mention -see my other posts - Storm/Knights/Raiders for an example would have 1 trip to Townsville and 2 to NZ - 2 to Brisbane and 1 to GC and 1 each to the other 2 teams grounds and 4 or 5 trips to Sydney.

If either of those teams now played the Cows Twice/ NZ Warriors twice and the 3 current QLD teams Twice in the current 16 teams comp - they would have one trip to Townsville/ 1 trip to Brisbane and 1 Trip to GC and 1 trip to NZ- 4 trips

In the 18 team 2 conference comp - 1 trip to Townsville/ 2 trips to Brisbane/ 1 trip to GC and 2 Trips to NZ.- 6 trips

An extra trip to Brisbane and NZ is not excessive at all and neither is the other travel as per above in this conference of 2 NZ/ 4 QLD team/ Raiders/Storm/Knights

By grouping these teams in the same conference it actual helps with the travel

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I don’t get the idea of conferences. Its like the 6 again rule - it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

On the 18th side, whatever direction they decide to go with, they just need to better with the introduction of the next side then they have had with pretty much any side they have introduced in the last 30 years, barring the Storm who were very fortunate. The Dolphins, for example, has been an absolute disaster and the NRL needs to start giving new teams assistance to help them to get established rather than seeing them purely as a cash cow for greater TV money.

If they decide to go for NZ 2, for example, I would give them and the Warriors salary cap dispensations to poach rugby union talent in order to drum up interest and boast their competitiveness

That would have the added bonus of making them hated by Australian RL fans, which will add spice to their games and turn them into a bigger draw when they play in Australia.

 

[MugaB]

This is for an 18 team comp - when you look at the travel though it's minimal and should hardly rate a mention -see my other posts - Storm/Knights/Raiders for an example would have 1 trip to Townsville and 2 to NZ - 2 to Brisbane and 1 to GC and 1 each to the other 2 teams grounds and 4 or 5 trips to Sydney.

If either of those teams now played the Cows Twice/ NZ Warriors twice and the 3 current QLD teams Twice in the current 16 teams comp - they would have one trip to Townsville/ 1 trip to Brisbane and 1 Trip to GC and 1 trip to NZ- 4 trips

In the 18 team 2 conference comp - 1 trip to Townsville/ 2 trips to Brisbane/ 1 trip to GC and 2 Trips to NZ.- 6 trips

An extra trip to Brisbane and NZ is not excessive at all and neither is the other travel as per above in this conference of 2 NZ/ 4 QLD team/ Raiders/Storm/Knights

By grouping these teams in the same conference it actual helps with the travel

Absolute garbage...
Again your missing the point, you want to put ALL teams that don't reside in Sydney in one comp.... that means they will be traveling away from home every fortnight, and the "sydney comp will never need to leave its city" regardless how you have stated al the options and rigourous typing to flesh out the possible interstate timetable you designed... it means sydney clubs will prosper automatically, due to not travelling out of their city for more than 5 away games at most, where every non sydney team will travel minimum 12-13 times a year... its not about traveling is hard, its the bias that sydney clubs don't have to... and if im right in saying you're an eastern suburbs rorter supporter, its makes perfect sence that you would prefer a "Sydney only based conference"

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I love this travel argument

Lets say team 18 is Brisbane 3

A travel is more than 3h by car/bus

Now the following clubs will travel 100% in any model ie 12 trips
- Canberra
- Melbourne
- Nth Qld
- Warriors

While the following Qld teams will always be in the same conference - 9 travels
- Broncos
- Dolphins
- Titans
- Brisbane 3

Then there is Newcastle
- Regional conference model 8 travels

The rest in Regional conference model
- 5/6 travels due to Magic round/ regional game

This wont change in whatever model you use

You've just proved my point!

The only way to make things fairer is by removing a few clubs from Sydney.

Sydney x 5
Brisbane x 3
NZ x 2
Central Coast x 1
Wollongong x 1
Newcastle x 1
Canberra x 1
Townsville x 1
Gold Coast x 1
Perth x 1
Melbourne x 1

18 teams. A good mix of local derbies in RL's two biggest markets, a derby for NZ, regional NSW adequately represented and expansion into an AFL city. Leaves room open for expansion into Adelaide and NZ 3.

 

[marshall stalin]

I don’t get the idea of conferences. Its like the 6 again rule - it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

On the 18th side, whatever direction they decide to go with, they just need to better with the introduction of the next side then they have had with pretty much any side they have introduced in the last 30 years, barring the Storm who were very fortunate. The Dolphins, for example, has been an absolute disaster and the NRL needs to start giving new teams assistance to help them to get established rather than seeing them purely as a cash cow for greater TV money.

If they decide to go for NZ 2, for example, I would give them and the Warriors salary cap dispensations to poach rugby union talent in order to drum up interest and boast their competitiveness

So if they keep adding teams it could get to the stage were teams are playing each other once. The current format is stale and and the disjointed inequitable draw and format will only get worse the more teams they add.

Conferences and or Divisions ensure all teams play the same teams the same number of times- also breathes life into the comp which is increasingly becoming more and more flat and way too predicable as more teams are in final contentions.

You have to have something different that will grow the game and maintain the interest as currently you virtually know which teams will make the 8 at the half way or less point of the season

If 18 Teams a 2 conference of 9 teams each is the way to go with a top 10 finals series - top 4 from each conference qualify for the cross over finals series and the last 2 places by way of wild card play offs between 5 v 6 from the difference conferences.- see 1998 final series format when there was a top 10.

Or top 5 finals series in each conference and the 2 conference winners play off superbowl style.

20 team comp - 4 divisions of 5 teams - 12 team cross over finals series - division winner have the first week off

Week 1 A) 2 vs 3 in cross over finals series - winners advance to week 2 and losers eliminated
Week 2 B) 1 vs 1's in cross over games - winners to week 4 and losers to week 3
Week 2 C) 4 winners of A -2 games - winners to week 3 and losers eliminated
Week 3 D) Losers of B vs Winners of C - 2 games - winners to week 4 and losers eliminated
Week 4 E) Winners of B v Winners of D - 2 Games - Winners to Week 4 and losers eliminated
Week 5 F) Winners of E - GF

 

[MugaB]

So if they keep adding teams it could get to the stage were teams are playing each other once. The current format is stale and and the disjointed inequitable draw and format will only get worse the more teams they add.

Conferences and or Divisions ensure all teams play the same teams the same number of times- also breathes life into the comp which is increasingly becoming more and more flat and way too predicable as more teams are in final contentions.

You have to have something different that will grow the game and maintain the interest as currently you virtually know which teams will make the 8 at the half way or less point of the season

If 18 Teams a 2 conference of 9 teams each is the way to go with a top 10 finals series - top 4 from each conference qualify for the cross over finals series and the last 2 places by way of wild card play offs between 5 v 6 from the difference conferences.- see 1998 final series format when there was a top 10.

Or top 5 finals series in each conference and the 2 conference winners play off superbowl style.

20 team comp - 4 divisions of 5 teams - 12 team cross over finals series - division winner have the first week off

Week 1 A) 2 vs 3 in cross over finals series - winners advance to week 2 and losers eliminated
Week 2 B) 1 vs 1's in cross over games - winners to week 4 and losers to week 3
Week 2 C) 4 winners of A -2 games - winners to week 3 and losers eliminated
Week 3 D) Losers of B vs Winners of C - 2 games - winners to week 4 and losers eliminated
Week 4 E) Winners of B v Winners of D - 2 Games - Winners to Week 4 and losers eliminated
Week 5 F) Winners of E - GF

At the moment we have a wooden spoon winner, bring in a 2 conference system, then we'll have two, add more diluted conferences we'll have 4 losers every season... its fine for NFL with its 32 teams,
But if we get to 20, then 2 should be the maximum, especially since Australia and NZ are low on population comparison to the States

 

[Pippen94]

So if they keep adding teams it could get to the stage were teams are playing each other once. The current format is stale and and the disjointed inequitable draw and format will only get worse the more teams they add.

Conferences and or Divisions ensure all teams play the same teams the same number of times- also breathes life into the comp which is increasingly becoming more and more flat and way too predicable as more teams are in final contentions.

You have to have something different that will grow the game and maintain the interest as currently you virtually know which teams will make the 8 at the half way or less point of the season

If 18 Teams a 2 conference of 9 teams each is the way to go with a top 10 finals series - top 4 from each conference qualify for the cross over finals series and the last 2 places by way of wild card play offs between 5 v 6 from the difference conferences.- see 1998 final series format when there was a top 10.

Or top 5 finals series in each conference and the 2 conference winners play off superbowl style.

20 team comp - 4 divisions of 5 teams - 12 team cross over finals series - division winner have the first week off

Week 1 A) 2 vs 3 in cross over finals series - winners advance to week 2 and losers eliminated
Week 2 B) 1 vs 1's in cross over games - winners to week 4 and losers to week 3
Week 2 C) 4 winners of A -2 games - winners to week 3 and losers eliminated
Week 3 D) Losers of B vs Winners of C - 2 games - winners to week 4 and losers eliminated
Week 4 E) Winners of B v Winners of D - 2 Games - Winners to Week 4 and losers eliminated
Week 5 F) Winners of E - GF

Why are fans obsessed with crossing conferences?! Whole point of conferences is to get big finals games & two different markets represented in grand final.
Why even do conferences if they are just forgotten about in the end?!

 

[marshall stalin]

Absolute garbage...
Again your missing the point, you want to put ALL teams that don't reside in Sydney in one comp.... that means they will be traveling away from home every fortnight, and the "sydney comp will never need to leave its city" regardless how you have stated al the options and rigourous typing to flesh out the possible interstate timetable you designed... it means sydney clubs will prosper automatically, due to not travelling out of their city for more than 5 away games at most, where every non sydney team will travel minimum 12-13 times a year... its not about traveling is hard, its the bias that sydney clubs don't have to... and if im right in saying you're an eastern suburbs rorter supporter, its makes perfect sence that you would prefer a "Sydney only based conference"

18 team comp 2 conferences - 26 games - 13 home and 13 away

Say your piffies played 5 away and 4 homes games against the other conference teams

2 in QLD
1 in NZ
1 in either Canberra/Melbourne/Newcastle- 2 games

4 QLD teams/NZ teams and Raiders/Knights/Storm all travel 13 times no matter which way you look at it

For Raiders/Knights/Storm for an example

In there conference the away games will be

4 in QLD
2 in NZ
2 against the other conference teams

Hardly excessive travel over a 26 game season especially when you take into account were these 8 games are played - 2 games in Brisbane / 1 GC which is minimal travel and 1 in Townsville which is 3 to 4 odd hours and 1 extra to NZ (Based on them playing NZ warriors twice in a normal 16 or 17 teams comp)

Canberra/Newcastle and Melbourne minimal travel time too in travelling to each others grounds.

Cows and NZ teams will always have the furthest to travel no matter what conference you put them in.

The Storm always play the Broncos and Warriors twice each season(1 vs Warriors an Annual Anzac Day Game) so obviously they will have to be in the same conference - Storm also played the Titans twice and the Cows once in Townsville in 2021-The Cows game will again be in Townsville in 2022

So safe to say you can lock in the 4 QLD teams/2 NZ teams and Storm(who are a kind off 5th QLD team in any case) into the same conference thus leaving 2 spots - Raiders and Knights more than fit the bill.

So in wrapping up the 2 conferences should be as follows as travel doesn't factor into it as i alluded to above

Sydney - 9 Sydney Teams
Non Sydney - 4 QLD teams/ 2 NZ teams/ Storm/Raiders/ Knights

 

[marshall stalin]

Why are fans obsessed with crossing conferences?! Whole point of conferences is to get big finals games & two different markets represented in grand final.
Why even do conferences if they are just forgotten about in the end?!

i did mention this in my post- the crossover finals series would be some sort of compromise as people will complain that 2 teams in the same conference couldn't play in the superbowl style game

"Or top 5 finals series in each conference and the 2 conference winners play off superbowl style"