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18th club, whose next?

MugaB

Coach
Messages
13,680
THIS WEEK IN THE MAROON OBSERVER

Assuming the Perth Bears are as done a deal as PNG was, or as desperate journalists on Twitter are to convince you that no really this time they actually have the scoop unlike the other guys that said they did, the upside, if there is to be one, will be the precedent of a transfer of a rugby league brand out of Sydney into another place. Even though this has been demonstrated in the AFL (and numerous other sports), that doesn’t seem to be sufficient to convince many people that their club should take the plunge, relocate and prosper.

While the NRL clubs’ financial situation is in a relatively good place at the minute (big asterisk for previously discussed reasons), that won’t last forever. Dark economic times will return, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, although it’s probably a couple of TV deals into the future. When that happens, if there is a relocation precedent, then that might be more encouraging for weaker clubs to look at a future where they move to Adelaide, Christchurch or elsewhere. The presumed success of the Perth Bears will help with that line of argument, even if “well that was different because the Bears hadn’t been in the NRL for more than 20 years” will prevail among a certain subset of lead paint chip eating fans. Of course, the contrary case will apply if the whole thing is a disaster.

Even given how astonishingly quickly the switch flipped from PNG to WA, there is still a semblance of process to follow. The Controlling Body is currently accepting expressions of interest. Those EoI will be evaluated after the close by the expansion committe. Then the committee will ask Peter V’Landys want he wants and that’s what they’ll go with.

There are supposedly 11 bids, even though I think I can only name seven (Easts Tigers, two South Island bids, Bears, WA, PNG, Fiji) that notionally exist, so not sure who the other four are. If $30 million is the buy-in, then WA Bears could do it (if we put aside obvious alignment concerns between North Sydney and Perth), PNG and probably the Easts/Brisbane Tigers.

Even if we put aside obvious logistical concerns, PNG only works with substantial government backing but if they miss this window, then they need Marape and Albanese to get re-elected in 2027 and 2025 respectively to have any hope of NRL19.

Then again, Pauline Hanson, who I didn't realise was still alive let alone in the Senate, is against it, so I guess I’m now the most rabid PNG expansion enthusiast you can imagine. Have we considered granting them two licences? Three? They can have a couple of Sydney teams to sweeten the deal.

I’d be surprised if there’s anyone else out there with the kind of resources on hand for rugby league purposes needed and it’s not clear how else the NRL gets to 20 other than those three options. While owning a NRL club is a profitable enterprise, it’s not that profitable and NZ2 isn’t raising $30 million without private equity ghouls or similar who will want better returns.

If you’re the Tigers, then you’re banking on the NRL being committed enough to the goal of 20 by 32 that you can let the WA Bears get the 18th licence, wait for the democratic process to kill PNG and then be in the strongest position for NRL19, 20 at worst even if PNG somehow makes it to the pitch.

It’s not like the NRL is going to fund this themselves with some sort of high level strategy.
 
Last edited:

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,020
THIS WEEK IN THE MAROON OBSERVER

Assuming the Perth Bears are as done a deal as PNG was, or as desperate journalists on Twitter are to convince you that no really this time they actually have the scoop unlike the other guys that said they did, the upside, if there is to be one, will be the precedent of a transfer of a rugby league brand out of Sydney into another place. Even though this has been demonstrated in the AFL (and numerous other sports), that doesn’t seem to be sufficient to convince many people that their club should take the plunge, relocate and prosper.

While the NRL clubs’ financial situation is in a relatively good place at the minute (big asterisk for previously discussed reasons), that won’t last forever. Dark economic times will return, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, although it’s probably a couple of TV deals into the future. When that happens, if there is a relocation precedent, then that might be more encouraging for weaker clubs to look at a future where they move to Adelaide, Christchurch or elsewhere. The presumed success of the Perth Bears will help with that line of argument, even if “well that was different because the Bears hadn’t been in the NRL for more than 20 years” will prevail among a certain subset of lead paint chip eating fans. Of course, the contrary case will apply if the whole thing is a disaster.

Even given how astonishingly quickly the switch flipped from PNG to WA, there is still a semblance of process to follow. The Controlling Body is currently accepting expressions of interest. Those EoI will be evaluated after the close by the expansion committe. Then the committee will ask Peter V’Landys want he wants and that’s what they’ll go with.

There are supposedly 11 bids, even though I think I can only name seven (Easts Tigers, two South Island bids, Bears, WA, PNG, Fiji) that notionally exist, so not sure who the other four are. If $30 million is the buy-in, then WA Bears could do it (if we put aside obvious alignment concerns between North Sydney and Perth), PNG and probably the Easts/Brisbane Tigers.

Even if we put aside obvious logistical concerns, PNG only works with substantial government backing but if they miss this window, then they need Marape and Albanese to get re-elected in 2027 and 2025 respectively to have any hope of NRL19.

Then again, Pauline Hanson, who I didn't realise was still alive let alone in the Senate, is against it, so I guess I’m now the most rabid PNG expansion enthusiast you can imagine. Have we considered granting them two licences? Three? They can have a couple of Sydney teams to sweeten the deal.

I’d be surprised if there’s anyone else out there with the kind of resources on hand for rugby league purposes needed and it’s not clear how else the NRL gets to 20 other than those three options. While owning a NRL club is a profitable enterprise, it’s not that profitable and NZ2 isn’t raising $30 million without private equity ghouls or similar who will want better returns.

If you’re the Tigers, then you’re banking on the NRL being committed enough to the goal of 20 by 32 that you can let the WA Bears get the 18th licence, wait for the democratic process to kill PNG and then be in the strongest position for NRL19, 20 at worst even if PNG somehow makes it to the pitch.

It’s not like the NRL is going to fund this themselves with some sort of high level strategy.
This article was going so well till the qld bias showed up in the last two paragraphs

he couldn’t decide if democracy killing png or nz2 failure to raise 30 million would be the cause for the tigers to enter so he hedged his bets with both
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
13,680
This article was going so well till the qld bias showed up in the last two paragraphs

he couldn’t decide if democracy killing png or nz2 failure to raise 30 million would be the cause for the tigers to enter so he hedged his bets with both
The writer of the article is called the Maroon observer..
 
Messages
14,764
This article was going so well till the qld bias showed up in the last two paragraphs

he couldn’t decide if democracy killing png or nz2 failure to raise 30 million would be the cause for the tigers to enter so he hedged his bets with both
What makes you think NZ2 has $30m AUD sitting around to fund a team?

One of the bids from Christchurch was on Facebook asking for donations from fans to fund their bid.

I've never believed NZ2 has the money to put together a strong bid, FWIW. I am supportive of NZ2 and NZ3 because there's an opportunity to grow the game in a vital market, but it will require funding from the ARLC.

PNG most certainly does not have the capital or infrastructure to run a team in the NRL. It cannot field one in the Queensland Cup without funding from the Aus Gov.

The so called $600m funding deal over a decade still hasn't been finalised. There's no guarantee it will ever come to fruition. For decades we've had several administrations sign deals with foreign countries to build submarines. None have been built.

North Sydney are not a rich club. They don't have $30m sitting around. They couldn't afford the costs of running 50% of the Northern Eagles.

No one in Perth wants to be saddled with a Sydney club.

Peter Cumins might be able to stump together $30m. Key word being "might". He's against the Bears.

FTA is a dying industry. Foxtel is in a precarious position. The profit margins from Kayo/Binge/Flash are much smaller than the traditional Foxtel cable/satellite subscription model. In 20 years from now there might not be a Foxtel model because the youth are not willing to choose it over Kayo/Binge. Streaming is the future and it is killing Foxtel's overpriced model that has never been popular amongst Australians.

All of these facts are conveniently ignored by biased NSWRL fans who want to revive a dead Sydney club.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,020
What makes you think NZ2 has $30m AUD sitting around to fund a team?

One of the bids from Christchurch was on Facebook asking for donations from fans to fund their bid.

I've never believed NZ2 has the money to put together a strong bid, FWIW. I am supportive of NZ2 and NZ3 because there's an opportunity to grow the game in a vital market, but it will require funding from the ARLC.

PNG most certainly does not have the capital or infrastructure to run a team in the NRL. It cannot field one in the Queensland Cup without funding from the Aus Gov.

The so called $600m funding deal over a decade still hasn't been finalised. There's no guarantee it will ever come to fruition. For decades we've had several administrations sign deals with foreign countries to build submarines. None have been built.

North Sydney are not a rich club. They don't have $30m sitting around. They couldn't afford the costs of running 50% of the Northern Eagles.

No one in Perth wants to be saddled with a Sydney club.

Peter Cumins might be able to stump together $30m. Key word being "might". He's against the Bears.

FTA is a dying industry. Foxtel is in a precarious position. The profit margins from Kayo/Binge/Flash are much smaller than the traditional Foxtel cable/satellite subscription model. In 20 years from now there might not be a Foxtel model because the youth are not willing to choose it over Kayo/Binge. Streaming is the future and it is killing Foxtel's overpriced model that has never been popular amongst Australians.

All of these facts are conveniently ignored by biased NSWRL fans who want to revive a dead Sydney club.
You should write for the maroon observer
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
6,748
THIS WEEK IN THE MAROON OBSERVER

Assuming the Perth Bears are as done a deal as PNG was, or as desperate journalists on Twitter are to convince you that no really this time they actually have the scoop unlike the other guys that said they did, the upside, if there is to be one, will be the precedent of a transfer of a rugby league brand out of Sydney into another place. Even though this has been demonstrated in the AFL (and numerous other sports), that doesn’t seem to be sufficient to convince many people that their club should take the plunge, relocate and prosper.

While the NRL clubs’ financial situation is in a relatively good place at the minute (big asterisk for previously discussed reasons), that won’t last forever. Dark economic times will return, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, although it’s probably a couple of TV deals into the future. When that happens, if there is a relocation precedent, then that might be more encouraging for weaker clubs to look at a future where they move to Adelaide, Christchurch or elsewhere. The presumed success of the Perth Bears will help with that line of argument, even if “well that was different because the Bears hadn’t been in the NRL for more than 20 years” will prevail among a certain subset of lead paint chip eating fans. Of course, the contrary case will apply if the whole thing is a disaster.

Even given how astonishingly quickly the switch flipped from PNG to WA, there is still a semblance of process to follow. The Controlling Body is currently accepting expressions of interest. Those EoI will be evaluated after the close by the expansion committe. Then the committee will ask Peter V’Landys want he wants and that’s what they’ll go with.

There are supposedly 11 bids, even though I think I can only name seven (Easts Tigers, two South Island bids, Bears, WA, PNG, Fiji) that notionally exist, so not sure who the other four are. If $30 million is the buy-in, then WA Bears could do it (if we put aside obvious alignment concerns between North Sydney and Perth), PNG and probably the Easts/Brisbane Tigers.

Even if we put aside obvious logistical concerns, PNG only works with substantial government backing but if they miss this window, then they need Marape and Albanese to get re-elected in 2027 and 2025 respectively to have any hope of NRL19.

Then again, Pauline Hanson, who I didn't realise was still alive let alone in the Senate, is against it, so I guess I’m now the most rabid PNG expansion enthusiast you can imagine. Have we considered granting them two licences? Three? They can have a couple of Sydney teams to sweeten the deal.

I’d be surprised if there’s anyone else out there with the kind of resources on hand for rugby league purposes needed and it’s not clear how else the NRL gets to 20 other than those three options. While owning a NRL club is a profitable enterprise, it’s not that profitable and NZ2 isn’t raising $30 million without private equity ghouls or similar who will want better returns.

If you’re the Tigers, then you’re banking on the NRL being committed enough to the goal of 20 by 32 that you can let the WA Bears get the 18th licence, wait for the democratic process to kill PNG and then be in the strongest position for NRL19, 20 at worst even if PNG somehow makes it to the pitch.

It’s not like the NRL is going to fund this themselves with some sort of high level strategy.

Wonder how this guy thinks the NRL ever grew to 17 teams?! Like great Dane got a blog..
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
6,748
What makes you think NZ2 has $30m AUD sitting around to fund a team?

One of the bids from Christchurch was on Facebook asking for donations from fans to fund their bid.

I've never believed NZ2 has the money to put together a strong bid, FWIW. I am supportive of NZ2 and NZ3 because there's an opportunity to grow the game in a vital market, but it will require funding from the ARLC.

PNG most certainly does not have the capital or infrastructure to run a team in the NRL. It cannot field one in the Queensland Cup without funding from the Aus Gov.

The so called $600m funding deal over a decade still hasn't been finalised. There's no guarantee it will ever come to fruition. For decades we've had several administrations sign deals with foreign countries to build submarines. None have been built.

North Sydney are not a rich club. They don't have $30m sitting around. They couldn't afford the costs of running 50% of the Northern Eagles.

No one in Perth wants to be saddled with a Sydney club.

Peter Cumins might be able to stump together $30m. Key word being "might". He's against the Bears.

FTA is a dying industry. Foxtel is in a precarious position. The profit margins from Kayo/Binge/Flash are much smaller than the traditional Foxtel cable/satellite subscription model. In 20 years from now there might not be a Foxtel model because the youth are not willing to choose it over Kayo/Binge. Streaming is the future and it is killing Foxtel's overpriced model that has never been popular amongst Australians.

All of these facts are conveniently ignored by biased NSWRL fans who want to revive a dead Sydney club.

Apparently there's 3 other kiwi bids in addition to original two south island ones.
 

shewi6

Juniors
Messages
580
What makes you think NZ2 has $30m AUD sitting around to fund a team?

One of the bids from Christchurch was on Facebook asking for donations from fans to fund their bid.

I've never believed NZ2 has the money to put together a strong bid, FWIW. I am supportive of NZ2 and NZ3 because there's an opportunity to grow the game in a vital market, but it will require funding from the ARLC.

PNG most certainly does not have the capital or infrastructure to run a team in the NRL. It cannot field one in the Queensland Cup without funding from the Aus Gov.

The so called $600m funding deal over a decade still hasn't been finalised. There's no guarantee it will ever come to fruition. For decades we've had several administrations sign deals with foreign countries to build submarines. None have been built.

North Sydney are not a rich club. They don't have $30m sitting around. They couldn't afford the costs of running 50% of the Northern Eagles.

No one in Perth wants to be saddled with a Sydney club.

Peter Cumins might be able to stump together $30m. Key word being "might". He's against the Bears.

FTA is a dying industry. Foxtel is in a precarious position. The profit margins from Kayo/Binge/Flash are much smaller than the traditional Foxtel cable/satellite subscription model. In 20 years from now there might not be a Foxtel model because the youth are not willing to choose it over Kayo/Binge. Streaming is the future and it is killing Foxtel's overpriced model that has never been popular amongst Australians.

All of these facts are conveniently ignored by biased NSWRL fans who want to revive a dead Sydney club.
You must be fun at parties...
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,020
All that matters is how much money they have to fund a team.

Auckland Warriors struggled and went bust. That was despite being the only club in New Zealand's largest city and strongest RL market.
They went bust when the nrl grant was low

grants are so high now it’s almost impossible for any nrl club (new or prospective) to go broke

clubs will soon be getting almost 20 million pa just from the nrl grant
 
Messages
14,764
You should write for the maroon observer
You're upset because I'm not indulging your delusions about PNG and the Bears?

If NSW RL writers are so smart, then how come their predictions about Pasifika@Cairns playing all over the Pacific, PNG@Cairns, PNG "guaranteed to be 17th NRL team and funded by the Aussie taxpayer", Melbourne Bears, Central Coast Bears, NSW Country Bears and Perth Bears playing 6 games at NSO never eventuated?

Every time they come out with some bullshit clickbait article you and MugaB fall for it hook, line and sinker.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,020
You're upset because I'm not indulging your delusions about PNG and the Bears?

If NSW RL writers are so smart, then how come their predictions about Pasifika@Cairns playing all over the Pacific, PNG@Cairns, PNG "guaranteed to be 17th NRL team and funded by the Aussie taxpayer", Melbourne Bears, Central Coast Bears, NSW Country Bears and Perth Bears playing 6 games at NSO never eventuated?

Every time they come out with some bullshit clickbait article you and MugaB fall for it hook, line and sinker.
Do I sound upset ?
 
Messages
14,764
They went bust when the nrl grant was low

grants are so high now it’s almost impossible for any nrl club (new or prospective) to go broke

clubs will soon be getting almost 20 million pa just from the nrl grant

Will the broadcasters stump up the money to support new teams they don't want?

Ch9 won't because FTA is in a death spiral.

Foxtel won't because they're losing the war with streaming.

RL is currently experiencing a boom period. At some stage it will plateau. It might even experience a decline.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,020
Will the broadcasters stump up the money to support new teams they don't want?

Ch9 won't because FTA is in a death spiral.

Foxtel won't because they're losing the war with streaming.

RL is currently experiencing a boom period. At some stage it will plateau. It might even experience a decline.
It’s going to face declining ratings after adding 3 more teams and Australia’s population will keep growing ?
 
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