2005 - The *on field* issues

[thickos]

I know some of you don't share my sentiments but I am bloody excited about 2005 and the potential we have in our team. I think a bit of new blood in the squad is just what the doctor ordered, and while the loss of Ruben et al will hurt, he is gone and we have to move on. These for mine are the big issues:

* Where to play Jason Smith:

He's been brought here to play half, Elliott has stated that - but he is more of a lock and has not played #7 for donkey's years. I think no matter where he plays he will be a benefit to the development of McLinden, Carney etc.. but should he 'be in the way' in the halves?

* Mark McLinden - last chance:

I think Mark is fantastic but enough is enough. There has never been a more frustrating footballer in terms of talent vs results. I think there has to be a big 2005 from Macca otherwise his future is on thin ice.

* The wing spots:

Everyone here has a different view of the wing positions. I think Chalk should be there, he is an outstanding talent. Same with Smithy, although he will end up in the forwards. But where does this leave Gafa? Robertson? Is Robbo on the scrapheap at 21?

It's a good problem to have but I don't know how you accomodate everyone.

* Is Ale ready?

The kid has got promise written all over him - but will he see any FG action in 05? He was a Flegg player last season - and I think he will definitely start in PL ... but will he step up? And who will he replace? Mogg, who is off contract? Will Phil end up on the wing (complicates the point above)? Where does Frawley go??

* Who takes the #11?

A minor thing but it will be a big honour to fill Wiki's shoes. I think Hodgson should be the first to step up after a great 04... but we aren't short on second rowers. Miller, Kahler, Rothery, Adamson... take your pick.

* Who is gonna partner Rhino?

For me the obvious choice is Weyman but perhaps he is suited to being a benchie for a little while longer? But is someone like Troy Thompson up to it? How about Bryant? Adamson? Hodgo? Cross?

Tough call and I don't know the answer.

*Where do we fit Withers in?

Carney or Withers for the bench? Or Withers for the #7 jersey? Do we impede Carney's development for another season, and let him get first choice of halback in 06 with Germ out of the picture and Withers at hooker?

Do we carry both Carney and Withers on the bench and play only two forwards, going against our standard policy of at least 3 forwards?

* What about the forgotten brigade?

With all the excitement of our great PL players (Kahler, Rothery, Miller, Campo, Carney, Lawrence, Chalky etc), with all of them pressing to get into first grade, what happens to the fringe players? Tonguey? Terry Martin? Is there a place for these guys or have they been passed in the pecking order?

* Any more Boogas?

Or Tyran Smith? If so - :evil: .

*Captain?

Well its either Schif or Germ, and its a contentious one at that. I'll leave that discussion for the other thread.

++++++++++++

So what are everyone's thoughts? Try to keep management/coaching out of this thread, we have enough on that topic

 

[DJ Raida]

Top thread

smith for half

macca is on thin ice i suspect as well

chalk definatly on the wing- i think the other should be frawley, graham or gafa

ale mid season maybe

11 is adamnson

front row is a big problem i think, i spose our best option is weyman or another with weyman coming in afta 20 minutes

withers in 17 coming on for woolford or a tired half

i think those guys have been surpased, but they still have talent

boogs? omg no
smith maybe

captain- well seeing as we got withers to interchange with woolford- he wont be on the pitch all the time so i cant see him getting it- choc for mine, or perhaps a middle age player who will be with us for a while

 

[Raider_69]

* Where to play Jason Smith:

He's been brought here to play half, Elliott has stated that - but he is more of a lock and has not played #7 for donkey's years. I think no matter where he plays he will be a benefit to the development of McLinden, Carney etc.. but should he 'be in the way' in the halves?

I would play smith at lock with Carney at half and Mclinden at 5/8th. Move Croker to the back row to cover for the loss of Muss

* Mark McLinden - last chance:

I think Mark is fantastic but enough is enough. There has never been a more frustrating footballer in terms of talent vs results. I think there has to be a big 2005 from Macca otherwise his future is on thin ice.

Its make or break for macca, with the talent coming through in the halves if he dosnt step up and play consistant footy he may find himself on the outta with the club.

* The wing spots:

Everyone here has a different view of the wing positions. I think Chalk should be there, he is an outstanding talent. Same with Smithy, although he will end up in the forwards. But where does this leave Gafa? Robertson? Is Robbo on the scrapheap at 21?

It's a good problem to have but I don't know how you accomodate everyone.

Smith moving to the back row is good, it allows us a chance to accomidate more plus he really isnt that fast for a winger. Chalk and Graham for me to start off with Gafa first cab off the ranks

* Is Ale ready?

The kid has got promise written all over him - but will he see any FG action in 05? He was a Flegg player last season - and I think he will definitely start in PL ... but will he step up? And who will he replace? Mogg, who is off contract? Will Phil end up on the wing (complicates the point above)? Where does Frawley go??

He isnt ready yet, stick him in PL and see how he goes, Frawley will be in the centres with Mogg. Ale should have a veiw of debuting in 06

* Who takes the #11?

A minor thing but it will be a big honour to fill Wiki's shoes. I think Hodgson should be the first to step up after a great 04... but we aren't short on second rowers. Miller, Kahler, Rothery, Adamson... take your pick.

Croker to second row to accomidate J Smith. Then i think Adamson will snear a bench spot or maybe start as a front rower with Weyman on the bench, I rate Miller. Rothery and Kahler arnt as developed as Miller IMO, but the bench will be a hotly contested one, add to that tongue aswell

* Who is gonna partner Rhino?

For me the obvious choice is Weyman but perhaps he is suited to being a benchie for a little while longer? But is someone like Troy Thompson up to it? How about Bryant? Adamson? Hodgo? Cross?

Tough call and I don't know the answer.

Adamson might get the starting gig with weyman used in the impact off the bench role which IMO worked a treat last year, Hodgo is a 2nd rower as far as im concerned and Cross is better then Bryant and Thompson so i would say the 4 props we will run with are Weyman, Adamson, Cross and Rhino

*Where do we fit Withers in?

Carney or Withers for the bench? Or Withers for the #7 jersey? Do we impede Carney's development for another season, and let him get first choice of halback in 06 with Germ out of the picture and Withers at hooker?

Do we carry both Carney and Withers on the bench and play only two forwards, going against our standard policy of at least 3 forwards?

Withers off the bench in jersy 17, germ cant play a full game atm and a good rotation of germ and linc will work wonders IMO, but that mean that Carney must start, if carney dosnt start i think Carney should get first crack at 17.

* What about the forgotten brigade?

With all the excitement of our great PL players (Kahler, Rothery, Miller, Campo, Carney, Lawrence, Chalky etc), with all of them pressing to get into first grade, what happens to the fringe players? Tonguey? Terry Martin? Is there a place for these guys or have they been passed in the pecking order?

Kahler and Rothery still have some ground to make up on Miller IMO so i think they are all but out of the picture for round 1. but dont forget injuries do happen and we seem to cop alot of them in a year. Campo dosnt look like getting a decent run at it till Toots retires in which i think Campo is a born replacement for Toots. Lawrence to be honest i dont rate that highly, he wont get a start at all IMO

* Any more Boogas?

Or Tyran Smith? If so - :evil: .

One can only hope with all the depth we have now, No is a clear cut answer for boogs and smith in the first grade team, i also cant see either of them being here in 06

*Captain?

Well its either Schif or Germ, and its a contentious one at that. I'll leave that discussion for the other thread.

Germ but if they feel it must be changed for the good of the team Schif or Croker are odds on and would both do a fine job

 

[Raider_69]

Thats my 2 bobs worth anyways
cant say i can think of any more dramas that will be on feild stuff
i agree thou, season 05 is all about potential, i has the ingrediants of what could be a fantastic season but it also has the makings of a really bad one.
BRING IT ON!

 

[Raider Ultra]

I reckon we're gunna have a really good season in 05. I reckon we'll make the top 4 at least, you heard it hear first

 

[Anonymous]

I would definitely be starting Carney round 1. My logic is that if he's not ready rd. 1, how can he be ready come September?

OK here's how I think we should be lining up and how I think Elliot will line us up, I just posted this in the NRL forum in a similar post:

Raiders

How I'd like to see them line up:

1-C.Schifcofske
2-M.Chalk
3-A.Mogg
4-C.Frawley
5-P.Graham
6-M.McLinden
7-T.Carney
8-R.O'Hara
9-S.Woolford
10-M.Weyman
11-I.Hindmarsh
12-J.Croker
13-J.Smith

14-M.Adamson
15-M.Hodgson
16-J.Miller
17-L.Withers

How Matthew 'Supercoach' Elliot will line them up:

1-C.Schifcofske
2-M.Robertson
3-A.Mogg
4-C.Frawley
5-P.Graham
6-J.Croker
7-J.Smith
8-R.O'Hara
9-S.Woolford
10-T.Thompson
11-M.Adamson
12-M.Hodgson
13-I.Hindmarsh

14-B.Cross
15-J.Miller
16-L.Withers
17-M.McLinden

 

[thickos]

I would definitely be starting Carney round 1. My logic is that if he's not ready rd. 1, how can he be ready come September?

OK here's how I think we should be lining up and how I think Elliot will line us up, I just posted this in the NRL forum in a similar post:

Raiders

How I'd like to see them line up:

1-C.Schifcofske
2-M.Chalk
3-A.Mogg
4-C.Frawley
5-P.Graham
6-M.McLinden
7-T.Carney
8-R.O'Hara
9-S.Woolford
10-M.Weyman
11-I.Hindmarsh
12-J.Croker
13-J.Smith

14-M.Adamson
15-M.Hodgson
16-J.Miller
17-L.Withers

How Matthew 'Supercoach' Elliot will line them up:

1-C.Schifcofske
2-M.Robertson
3-A.Mogg
4-C.Frawley
5-P.Graham
6-J.Croker
7-J.Smith
8-R.O'Hara
9-S.Woolford
10-T.Thompson
11-M.Adamson
12-M.Hodgson
13-I.Hindmarsh

14-B.Cross
15-J.Miller
16-L.Withers
17-M.McLinden

The bench you put in 'Elliott's team' Timbo is mighty small with Withers and Macca. Do you actually think that will happen?

 

[Anonymous]

I did consider that. However, I can't see Elliot leaving either of them out, and, Croker and Smith can be shuffled into the backrow when Marty and Linc come on.

 

[Kris_man]

on Jason Smith: now that we have Lincoln Withers, i think it would be a mistake to use J Smith exclusively as a half. i think a utility role similar to Croker's in 2004 would be most beneficial to the team. it is important to remember, though, that organisation from our halves WAS terrible in 2004, and Elliott sees Smith as the answer to that problem.

Is Robbo on the scrapheap at 21?

from what we saw in 2004, he's definitely not on the scrap heap. he was only dropped for one game, to 18th man (round 23 vs. Storm), to make way for a combination of Monaghan, Bulgarelli, Mogg and Gafa. he ended up starting the game anyway, and by the next round had regained his wing spot. Michael Robertson is certainly in Elliott's mind.

on McLinden: he'll be in the 17 somewhere. the only question is, where? does Elliott still view him as a no.7, or has he given up? i believe he will not be used at all in the no.7 jersey in 2005, there are two players elliott will prefer to play there: J Smith and Withers. only if they're both out, then i assume Elliott will move McLinden to halfback and Carney to the bench.

is someone like Troy Thompson up to it?

of course not, Thompson is deadwood, a neville. i've always thought with his build he was better suited to the back row, anyway. he might have actually made a pretty good back rower, but he'll never be a prop. i think 2005 is the year when we will see Ben Cross step up to the plate as prop forward the Raiders can be proud of.

Carney or Withers for the bench? Or Withers for the #7 jersey? Do we impede Carney's development for another season, and let him get first choice of halback in 06 with Germ out of the picture and Withers at hooker?

there's no reason to believe that Carney will be used in early 2005. he was trialled on the bench for 4 games while Brad Drew was injured (yes, he did retain his bench spot for one game while Drew was back, but he got his chance through injury), meaning that we only had one halfback: McLinden. we needed someone to step up, anyone, so we picked our PL halfback. now that we've bought two halves in Withers and J Smith, Carney is even further down the queue than he was in 2004, and i don't believe he'll get game time unless injuries intervene.

What about the forgotten brigade?

good question. let's face it, guys like Tongue, Thompson and Martin have been around for a long time now, and have barely set the world on fire - they were bascially stop-gap solutions. but the fact remains, each one of them have been, at some stage, regular starting first graders (as in, they've strung a few games together in the starting team). Elliott's history tells me that he likes to pick such players, players who are experienced, and this is why he will give these guys first dibs in 2005.

on Tyran Smith: he'll be out for the first few games through suspension, but after that he'll be strongly in the mix. he played a couple of games in PL in 2004 after he came back from injury, but it didn't take long for him to regain his place in the starting side. the past shows that Elliott has never kept Tyran in the lower grades for any lengthy period of time. not only has he been a regular first grader, he's also been a regular starter. if more young guys make themselves undroppable, as Weyman did with his performances last year, then he may spend time in PL when he gets back from suspension. if they have average games, though, like Kahler and Rothery did (sorry, but they didn't do anything special, their dropability was proved when they were relegated to PL at the end of the year), then Tyran will be back as soon as he's done his time.

 

[raiders_lover_18]

Matty has a good headache in some areas but they will hurt eventually. We have a wealth of talent around equal levels and that makes it hard to choose a team. Withers is a great signing but will definetly cause some Line-up problems. Elliot, in the midst of our recruitment problems, said that the management was basing recruitment around Toddy. Hopefully he remembers this and puts Carney in the No 7 jersey for most of the season. If he is good enough he is old enough.

 

[SOULS 04]

yeh alot of good probs

i wont go over everything you said but his my 2 cents

asn much as i hate to say it maccas is struggling and will prolly keep his bench spot.. i'd like to see him do that but be used as a centre or basically a floating back and not in the halves combo at all.

id say its the end for robbo... i like the guy he has alot of heart unfortunatley for him there are plenty ahead of him.

boogas should never play in first grade again... he's stuffed up way too many times and can't handle it. we have so many players filling centre spots now and i cant see in any way how he deserves any position in the side.

and tyran i really think we should have got rid of him... ihe sometimes does good things but makes so many mistakes its not funny.

start with j smith in the halves if it doesnt work quickly then move on and put him in lock.

 

[raiders_boy]

asn much as i hate to say it maccas is struggling and will prolly keep his bench spot.. i'd like to see him do that but be used as a centre or basically a floating back and not in the halves combo at all.

I think this is a good idea. Or put him at 5/8th. He has played some good footy there in the past, and I wouldn't mind seeing him there. He's obviously not the organisational type, so I would try either Macca at 5/8th with Jason Smith at half, and Withers/Carney at 17, or if its still not working, have Macca in the centres, with Smith 5/8th and Carney/Withers at half. Even moving Smith to the back row would be ok, but as much as I love him, McLinden can't stay at halfback. Smith's short kicking game would also help us inside the 20, as we were terrible there this year.

 

[greeneyed]

We won't have to worry about where to play Jason Smith. He will be injured. Tyran Smith... please don't even mention his name.......

 

[greeneyed]

And in my view, Ale will fight his way into first grade by the end of the season.....

 

[Tidus_Raider]

* Where to play Jason Smith:

I think Smith should be played at lock in a similar roll to what Scott Hill plays in the rep teams ie An extra half/5/8th. I dont think he should be played in the halves for two reasons:

1. Carney MUST be our first choice halfback surely. If Sonny Bill can handle it, it Brett Stweart can hadle it, if karmichael Hunt can handle it then why cant Carney handle NRL at the top level. People that say that halfback is different because there is more responsibility etc etc. I am not disputing that. The initiation from PL to first grade is always tough for most players. But guys like Mathew Head, Brett Firman Joe Williams did it...so why cant Carney.

2.If the whole point of bringing J.Smith into the team was guide the careers of our future halves then surely they must be on the field with him why he is doing his stuff. Wouldnt Carney gain more if he was actually playing along side Smith in game conditions week in week out then just occasionally training with him. Same for Mclinden.

* Mark McLinden - last chance:

Mclinden has a wealth of talent. Nobody disputes that. But lets face it. He isnt a halfback and he isnt the organisational type of player. Having said this I still think he should play at 5/8th. I think he would excel provided he has the organisational halfback inside him. This would allow him to do his thing more and take pressure of him. He has been forced to play in the halves with Drew and Croker neither of which would have helped his cause. I also think the style of play we played this year didnt suit him. He is more the expansive player and our one out stuff certainly doesnt play to his strengths.

* The wing spots:

I think our backline should look something like this:

Schif
Chalk
Frawley
Mogg
Graham

Frawley was bought as a centre and playing him anywhere else for the time being wouldn't be a smart move. Schif pick himself. Chalk finished the year brilliantly year and is easily our seconf choice IMO. Graham is our first. Should he be played at centre? Maybe but he is more adaptable then Mogg and therefore is pushed out to the wing spot.

* Is Ale ready?

He has to be tried in PL first. He has talent no doubt but to jump from JF to first grade would be unwise. Not even Sonny Bill did that. I think he should eventually should take over from Mogg at centre (cue the Mogg love ).


* Who takes the #11?

Croker.

11.Croker
12.Hindmarsh
13.J.Smith

An attacking mobile back row but still with plenty of attacking options. also keeps the #11 jersey on the back of another raiders legend. I think Adamson should start from the bench but if Hindmarsh doesnt pick up his forom and Adamson is exceeding excpectations I can see him starting with Hindy on the bench.


* Who is gonna partner Rhino?

I think Weyman is up there with Carney in terms of talent and I see him as a future captain. His runs are inspirational and he really lifts the side. He was the best prop towards the latter part of the season. All this and he probably wasnt at the fittest he could have been since he had missed all those games through injury. I think if he remains injury free, and with a big off season he should be the first player selected in the starting team.


*Where do we fit Withers in?

Off the bench for next season. He will be the player Drew should of been. Coming on in spurts to relieve Woolford. I think he should be kept away from the halves entirely. He isnt a play half that can play hooker. He is a hooker that can play half IF NEEDED and I think that is the wasy the coach should play him. He will be first choice in 2006.


* What about the forgotten brigade?

More like the excess baggage brigade. Players like Martin, Thompson and co just arent good enough. Harsh but true. NRL is a dog eat dog environment and you have too be able to put something on the table or else you are left behind. Martin has had one good year. 2003. Much like Payten when he was here he hadbig wraps on him but hasnt produced. Thommo, god bless him, tries his best but being soft and having his hands made from butter doesnt help.

I think twe should look at the next generation.

ie Kahler ahead of Thommo.

Rothery/Miller ahead of Martin



* Any more Boogas?

....

*Captain?

I would take either Schif or Woolford but for the sake of team harmony Woolford should retain.

 

[Purtell The Turtle]

*Captain?

I would take either Schif or Woolford but for the sake of team harmony Woolford should retain.

I think you will find woolford hangs on to it. i have mail schif will not play beyond next year in this country.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

So if both Schif and Germ leave next year who captains the raiders in 2006?

 

[peter_raiders]

Has to be Croker.

 

[thickos]

*Captain?

I would take either Schif or Woolford but for the sake of team harmony Woolford should retain.

I think you will find woolford hangs on to it. i have mail schif will not play beyond next year in this country.

Can I ask where you get your mail from? Or who your mailman is??

If you can't answer that, mention the credibility of your source then 8)

 

[Kris_man]

Phil Graham five-eighth and captain . but in all seriousness, Croker's too old. he's almost too old to be a player, let alone captain.