2008 Higher School Certificate

[Hallatia]

Congratulations to everyone, I did not realise how smart everyone around here was

I will be doing a Bachelor of Arts Bachelor of Secondary Education (Humanities)

 

[supersoniceagle]

I finished a marketing degree over a year ago and now find myself in the finance industry. I'd be interested to find out what percentage of people actually end up using their degrees in their jobs

 

[Hallatia]

I finished a marketing degree over a year ago and now find myself in the finance industry. I'd be interested to find out what percentage of people actually end up using their degrees in their jobs

it depends what degree you do really, with professionally recognised degrees for fields which are in high demand work is easier to come by

I already have a job in real estate and my mum expects me to change my degree every semester

 

[Martli]

I finished a marketing degree over a year ago and now find myself in the finance industry. I'd be interested to find out what percentage of people actually end up using their degrees in their jobs

I don't think it's about doing a degree to suit a certain job, and your situation is a perfect example of this. Yes, some industries require you to have a specific degree (Law, Accounting, Medicine etc.) but I think you'll find most professional careers just require you to be a smart and creative person. Most of your practical learning will come from the job rather than the degree itself. Your job might not related to your specific major, but I bet your major has moulded your brain to think they way it does now so you can get your job.

I think a lot of kids who are either still in uni or about to go to uni look at things in a very limited sense. They see a job they might want to do (I bet you didn't picture yourself in finance when you enrolled in uni) and pick the degree that deals with that subject matter as if the only way into that career path is to do the related university/tertiary courses. In reality, those vocational courses probably help a little, but in they really limit your ability and perspective to that single field. What you need to do is concentrate on becoming a smart and creative person who can think and draw from multiple fields. This doesn't mean you have to major in every single subject, it just means you should pick a subject that encourages thinking and making your own conclusions rather than learning an instruction manual--save that bit for when you get a job. I think when you can show that, you'll do far better than a drone who has trained to do a specific job.

 

[sportive cupid]

Oh right, so it's same sh*t just a different name.

This is possibly falling on deaf ears, but i'll give it a shot:
You guys want a tip from someone who's been there, done that? Don't study for a particular job. It sounds dumb to you now, but I'm deadly serious. You should study something that will teach you how to think critically so you can come to your own conclusions. Science-type things. So far i've spent 2 years doing a commerce degree majoring in accounting. My first year was pretty much the same as what JM wrote: I did general commerce papers like Econ, Management, Accounting--just the basics. In my second year I started my accounting major. Basically it was a whole lot of bullsh*t. What I learnt was that a lot of the business-type majors are basically just instruction manuals. All accounting taught me was how to be told what to do, where to find guidelines to make decisions and what to do in every single situation. They tried to put some subjectivity into it but the subject matter was too dry for it to really be captivating. Essentially it was training me to be a drone that does what the important people tell me to do. Setting me up for 40+ hours a week or doing everyone's dirty work and not even getting half the benefits of the creative and innovative people who are actually dictating where the entity is heading.

Basically, I chose accounting for all the wrong reasons: The job security and the pay-rates are enticing and it made my parents really happy. But I guarantee a good percentage of the people that do things like accounting hate their job and do it soley for the safety of a "comfortable" lifestyle.

A lot of business majors are like that. Management is a worthless major, you can learn management in the field, learning how people behave, how your company operates etc. etc. Finance and Accounting are pretty much drone sort of sh*t, you play around with a bunch of numbers in order to please the important people, but you have to know how to play around with them. Marketing I've never done, but I've heard that students have a hard time getting marketing jobs with that as their major (as odd as it sounds).

That being said, Econ is a great major. In my opinion it is the only business major that is worth doing. I've only done 2 Econ papers (and it will unfortunately stay that way now that I'm perusing psychology and political science) but both have taught me interesting ways to view the world and analyse problems. Accounting didn't, management didn't, finance didn't.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with doing this if it's what you really want, it's just that from my experience, a lot of people go into these sort of degrees with dreams of big houses and lots of money but ultimately succumb to the toils of the 40 hour working week. You both seem pretty intelligent and it'd be a shame to waste such good minds crunching numbers while the fat-cat lights up his cigar with a $100 note.

I guess the question is: do you want to do the dirty work while someone else reaps the benefits? or do you want to be the creative, innovative one who reaps the benefits themselves?

Ahhh the words of someone who is beginning to see what universities SHOULD be about

 

[sportive cupid]

MArtli what do you think of the idea that the Arts facilty of a university are the only real university degrees because they are the ones that teach /encourage creative /critical thinking without being a vocational course?

 

[Martli]

MArtli what do you think of the idea that the Arts facilty of a university are the only real university degrees because they are the ones that teach /encourage creative /critical thinking without being a vocational course?

Before I comment, here's my situation (for perspective purposes): I haven't studied arts at university, and until recently was not inclined towards the arts with the exception of my music (which I studied all through high school). I start my BA this year and am majoring in psychology and political science.

I would disagree with that statement. I think some art majors are completely worthless, while others are really good. The arts is a very broad area (at least at my university) so I don't think such a statement can really be applied accurately. Can you really compare someone who majors in feminist studies to someone who has done psyschology? Personally, my own tendancy is towards the science side of things and as you can see my BA will be in social sciences. I think degrees in the traditional science areas like mathmatics, physics, chemistry, biology are great; there have been some great thinkers from people who specialise in those areas and my own experience in them has lead to new perspectives on almost everything. So basically: some arts, yes. All arts, no. Most sciences, yes.

That's my opinion anyway. Remember my perspective though.

 

[sportive cupid]

Useless in what sense? Comparing someone who studies feminist studies(and my impression of this is that feminism is a concept which goes across subject areas) with somone who studies psychology I presume that you are implying that the one who studies "feminist studies" is less "useful' than psychology (BTW I studied both )

You stated earlier that the criteria you used to decide usefulness was the breadth of thinking that goes into study.How then is psychology more likely to produce greater breadth /depth of thought?
I am afraid( and I hope I am wrong)for all your saying that it is a shame that people are doing degree that get them a job and not ones that encourage them to think creatively and be the change agents of the future- you appear to still lack a bit of that creativity yourself.

Oh well,you are stuill studying right?

 

[Martli]

Like I said, I've never really studied any of the arts subjects so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I used to be a vocational degree advocate until quite recently, so I probably still hold some ideas from that old way of thinking. I used feminist studies as an example because there are a lot of dumb "feminists" (read: women who hate men, neo-feminists I guess) with sh*tty blogs that really create no value. You still need to apply your new-learned thinking to make the degree worth while otherwise you've just wasted 3-4 years. What I really should have said was that it ultimately comes down to the individual. I'm sure I could get and arts degree with straight Cs and not really think about what I'm doing at all, writing about ideas from a text-book just like I could with any vocational degree (maybe not law since they have prerequisites but you get what I'm saying)

 

[God-King Dean]

Feminism is only good if you're a feminine failure.

 

[Martli]

I think another thing I have neglected to mention is the sort of framework you develop when you take a certain major. For example what sort of framework of thinking do you develop if you major in physics compared to accounting. Things like physics, economics, mathematics can be used as metaphors for pretty much everything, hell they're basically the same thing in different a context. Is a feminist studies framework as useful or worthwhile as a physics-orientated one? It's subjective I suppose, depends on where you need to draw your information from. Being able to think is a great skill, but it means nothing if you don't understand what you're thinking about. Can you achieve this with any art major? I'm not really convinced. Again, take it with a grain of salt.

you appear to still lack a bit of that creativity yourself.

What can I say? I've spent the last two years immersed in accounting, I've learnt more valuable things outside of university than I have inside so far :lol:

 

[Twizzle]

Feminism is only good if you're a feminine failure.

oh you going straight to hell for that one

 

[strewth_mate]

It'd be interesting to see if the perspective remains the same after finishing that degree - particularly whether it works out like it looks on paper. I certainly had a different perspective on mine after doing it, but probably for the better, mind, mostly because nobody really knows what to expect from their course (I mean, it took until third year to figure out what biomedical science is, lol).

For the sake of argument, I would have thought that the truly open-minded and creative people weren't taught to be this way at university. If someone really wants to learn something, then they can learn in their own time. Plus I'd wager you'll find a large number of peers will be the ones that cruise along with the "P's get degrees" mindset, regardless of what the course is or what potential value it might have.

How about education for education's sake? Friend of mine is doing Arts/Law, and has just finished the Arts component majoring in history and Chinese. However, is about to go over to China to study on a scholarship for a year, will most likely do honours in history, and whatever postgrad opportunities arise from Law. The qualifications won't necessarily land her a job equal to the sum of their parts, but she doesn't care. The job will come later, whatever it is.

Draws scorn from some people, but these are usually in turn the types that nevertheless insist that they're not going to uni with the intention of getting railroaded into a job. Everyone wants security, it seems, whether it's in knowing they've got a specialised job right out of uni, or being comfortable to go through the motions, be occupied for a few years and figure it out at the end.

My feeling at least is that uni is composed of a minority that have a goal and are working towards it, and a majority who will later realise they didn't know what they were doing - and I'd say that most of those from either group won't exactly regret what they did, but only for their own reasons. Doesn't matter what course you do, you can find enlightenment in anything with the right approach.

Oh, and science wins.

 

[Martli]

It'd be interesting to see if the perspective remains the same after finishing that degree - particularly whether it works out like it looks on paper. I certainly had a different perspective on mine after doing it, but probably for the better, mind, mostly because nobody really knows what to expect from their course (I mean, it took until third year to figure out what biomedical science is, lol).

For the sake of argument, I would have thought that the truly open-minded and creative people weren't taught to be this way at university. If someone really wants to learn something, then they can learn in their own time. Plus I'd wager you'll find a large number of peers will be the ones that cruise along with the "P's get degrees" mindset, regardless of what the course is or what potential value it might have.

We've only really just started being able to truly learn other fields outside of education though. Some things a better learnt inside being taught by someone who actually knows and can relay the information to you. Good luck learning bio-med from books and wikipedia links. This is actually a discussion that is going on in other places on the net right now: are universities being made obsolete by open source education?

How about education for education's sake? Friend of mine is doing Arts/Law, and has just finished the Arts component majoring in history and Chinese. However, is about to go over to China to study on a scholarship for a year, will most likely do honours in history, and whatever postgrad opportunities arise from Law. The qualifications won't necessarily land her a job equal to the sum of their parts, but she doesn't care. The job will come later, whatever it is.

Good for her.

Draws scorn from some people, but these are usually in turn the types that nevertheless insist that they're not going to uni with the intention of getting railroaded into a job. Everyone wants security, it seems, whether it's in knowing they've got a specialised job right out of uni, or being comfortable to go through the motions, be occupied for a few years and figure it out at the end.

And this is the biggest draw card for vocational degrees. The baby-boomers didn't have the same opportunities as our generation so they drill in the importance of finding a job in an industry where there is plenty of opportunity and good pay, which is a very risk-averse way to look at it, but it as the reality they faced. To them this is what you need to aim for, but they don't understand the need to follow your passion, the only see life as a battle. Their mindset is this: work, save, retire. I think it places too many people in degrees they don't enjoy; I saw it with my own two eyes and even experienced it myself. I think when people realise they don't have to bear the burden of 40hours a week slaving away doing something you hate you'll get more people taking enjoyable paths in life, but still working hard.

My feeling at least is that uni is composed of a minority that have a goal and are working towards it, and a majority who will later realise they didn't know what they were doing - and I'd say that most of those from either group won't exactly regret what they did, but only for their own reasons. Doesn't matter what course you do, you can find enlightenment in anything with the right approach.

Agreed. Sometimes you need to travel down a road you don't enjoy in order to figure out what you do enjoy. I can say I hate the two years I spent on accounting, but I really have gained a lot out of it, even if it wasn't the actual material I was taught. Hindsight is great.

 

[sportive cupid]

Like I said, I've never really studied any of the arts subjects so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I used to be a vocational degree advocate until quite recently, so I probably still hold some ideas from that old way of thinking. I used feminist studies as an example because there are a lot of dumb "feminists" (read: women who hate men, neo-feminists I guess) with sh*tty blogs that really create no value. You still need to apply your new-learned thinking to make the degree worth while otherwise you've just wasted 3-4 years. What I really should have said was that it ultimately comes down to the individual. I'm sure I could get and arts degree with straight Cs and not really think about what I'm doing at all, writing about ideas from a text-book just like I could with any vocational degree (maybe not law since they have prerequisites but you get what I'm saying)

Blogs aren't univerity research
I'm not so sure you could get an Atrs degree by parroting what is in the textbooks.
Applying your new thinking? does that mean use it for employment or creating new knowledge?

 

[sportive cupid]

I think another thing I have neglected to mention is the sort of framework you develop when you take a certain major. For example what sort of framework of thinking do you develop if you major in physics compared to accounting. Things like physics, economics, mathematics can be used as metaphors for pretty much everything, hell they're basically the same thing in different a context. Is a feminist studies framework as useful or worthwhile as a physics-orientated one? It's subjective I suppose, depends on where you need to draw your information from. Being able to think is a great skill, but it means nothing if you don't understand what you're thinking about. Can you achieve this with any art major? I'm not really convinced. Again, take it with a grain of salt.


What can I say? I've spent the last two years immersed in accounting, I've learnt more valuable things outside of university than I have inside so far :lol:

Is a physics framework useful in understanding or creating new knowledge of the social/political structures ?

 

[sportive cupid]

What happened to "it's not the destination that is the important thing-it is the journey that teaches us most"

 

[Martli]

What happened to "it's not the destination that is the important thing-it is the journey that teaches us most"

You're right in that regard.

Just accept that you're debating with an idiot 20 year old who thinks he knows more than he does

 

[sportive cupid]

not an idiot 20 year old- just a 20 year old;-)

 

[nibbs]

i've finished marketing myself, and i'm now doing accounting. tbh, i've started so i might as well finish. but i wonder, some of my friends haven't gone to uni and are now earning around $40-50k per annum. after 5 years study i'll come out of uni and be earning the same. is uni really worth it?