2013 QLD Origin Side

[Joker's Wild]

Yet you perpetuate that with your sig Frank

If your not part of the solution....

 

[Frank_Grimes]

My minor contribution (in response to a similar sig mind you) pales in comparison to the continual bitching and whining about GI.

I don't claim to have the solution - just merely stating the facts.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

The value of Parker was clearly demonstrated in last years series. He provided an extra dimension of attack that the backrow of Queensland had been missing for some time.

Specifically I refer to his ability to offload in attacking situations. He has a much clearer sense of attacking opportunites that Harrison lacks. Harrison for all his value does have a tendency to 'die with the ball' and get bent backwards. Parker came in and added spice to the side which had developed a sameness to it over the years.

Their value on the defensive front really cancelled each other out. So at this stage Parker is a better option in the starting side. As I've stated, everyone can forget about the thought of Thaiday not starting, that will simply not happen. So I expect to see this backrow come May:

11. Thaiday
12. Myles
13. Parker

Harrison off the bench is a possibility I hadn't considered, and I like it in fact.

Tha backline I'm not even prepared to consider yet. Too much form and injuries that will come into play before squads are named.

Why do people name Myles at 12?

Harrison off the bench makes no sense at all to me. He's not an impact player. But I'm not surprised to see him criminally underrated on here again. The lack of acknowledgement of his ball playing makes me very suspicious.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

Thaiday is a broken play specialist and takes huge advantage of a teams momentum. He is fast for a big man, has a very quick FTB (like Pete said) and Qld would lose a tonne of metreage if he was left out of the side.

Sorry but that's nonsense.

Thaiday
Game 1 - 63m
Game 3 - 77m

Harrison
Game 1 - 93m
Game 2 - 115m

Parker
Game 3 - 97m

Myles
Game 1 - 76m
Game 2 - 90m
Game 3 - 120m

And all of them made more metres despite making more tackles than Thaiday. Benching Thaiday makes sense because he makes fewer metres and fewer tackles overall but his metres per run (which is the best measure of an impact player) are better overall.

I think it's arse-backwards putting Harrison on the bench and starting Thaiday.

 

[Joker's Wild]

How many minutes did those players play in those games?

Besides, his quick PTB lead to the following runners having a tonne more room to move and gaining more yardage

 

[Desert Qlder]

Why do people name Myles at 12?

:? Because I'm naming him in the second row, seems pretty obvious to me. I'm wondering the very same thing about your naming Harrison in the same position.

Geez man get a grip, you're a fan of Harrison and we get that. He's been a terrific player for Queensland and we all appreciate that.

No need to get all "suspicious" :lol:.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

:? Because I'm naming him in the second row, seems pretty obvious to me. I'm wondering the very same thing about your naming Harrison in the same position.

Geez man get a grip, you're a fan of Harrison and we get that. He's been a terrific player for Queensland and we all appreciate that.

No need to get all "suspicious" :lol:.

Why would you name a player in the second row when he's been playing lock (middle third) for the last 3 years? Parker and Harrison wear 13 but they're not playing lock. Myles is.

 

[Desert Qlder]

Myles is not lock fella.

The Queensland side has played without a traditional lock forward for some years now. Fair to say all of them are playing in the second row. Myles has also spent his share of time filling in at prop during his Origin career.

But these quibbles leave me far less emotional than they do for you.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

Myles is not lock fella.

The Queensland side has played without a traditional lock forward for some years now. Fair to say all of them are playing in the second row. Myles has also spent his share of time filling in at prop during his Origin career.

But these quibbles leave me far less emotional than they do for you.

Nah, that's just not true. Myles plays middle-third while Thaiday, Harrison and Parker all play on the fringes. Harrison and Parker rove a bit but Myles is clearly playing lock. I can only ask that people watch the games from the last 3 years again. Myles playing front row at times does not negate that in the same way that Gallen playing prop does not. Prop is still middle-third. So they're either playing lock or prop at different times. They're certainly not playing second row. Seems to me like you're paying attention to the numbers on their backs rather than what they're doing on the field.

 

[Desert Qlder]

Nah, that's just not true. Myles plays middle-third while Thaiday, Harrison and Parker all play on the fringes. Harrison and Parker rove a bit but Myles is clearly playing lock. I can only ask that people watch the games from the last 3 years again. Myles playing front row at times does not negate that in the same way that Gallen playing prop does not. Prop is still middle-third. So they're either playing lock or prop at different times. They're certainly not playing second row. Seems to me like you're paying attention to the numbers on their backs rather than what they're doing on the field.

You're 'middle-third' description has some merit, but it stills falls short of accurately describing the lock position. It is far more nuanced than that.

Locks are the link-man between the forwards and the backs. They must possess a range of skills that enable them to be anywhere on the field during play, and under different circumstances. For instance they may need to chime in on backline movements where a solid passing game can be utilised, or take a necessary hit-up when the other forwards are tiring, or even perhaps take the long kick on the fifth tackle. Their defense must be absolutely stout. Being positioned in the 'middle 'third' to use your phrase, the team relies on having that defensive rock being there for near on eighty minutes. Locks will have some of the necessary skills and only the great ones will have all of them.

It has really a position that modern day coaches will utilise to the strength of their side. Some might even suggest it gets abused in a sense, bastardised if you will.

To that end in the context of Queensland in recent years the 13 has most definitely been an extra second rower, whether it is Johnson, Harrison or Myles with the number on his back. Apart from very brief instances, Queensland have not looked to their lock to be anything other than a workhorse. Myles fits the bill very well because he has tremendous aerobic capacity that allows him to meet the demands of an Origin encounter. The coaching staff have looked to the forwards to lay a platform of domination so the halves, hooker and fullback can be creative. It is a plan which leaves little room for the forwards to exhibit any creativity themselves.

So I have no qualms about naming Myles in the second row, particularly now that Parker looks like a strong chance of being named in the starting side. Parker adds a little more creativity and vision to this long-standing forward pack that had in some ways grown stale. His offloads during the last years series were previously unseen during the Meninga tenure, and I'm sure he has more to offer. Myles thankfully for us supporters will continue to play the role he always has, and be monolithic in his performances no doubt.

So in summation, I do not think either are really wrong about this, it just we perhaps view the lock position with a different eye. Just remember though that this is not something to be too upset about.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Locks these days can be used as a 3rd frontrower, backrower or even a 2nd 5/8 depending on the coach and structure of the side. They are probably the hardest position to compartmentalise in the modern game.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

You're 'middle-third' description has some merit, but it stills falls short of accurately describing the lock position. It is far more nuanced than that.

Locks are the link-man between the forwards and the backs. They must possess a range of skills that enable them to be anywhere on the field during play, and under different circumstances. For instance they may need to chime in on backline movements where a solid passing game can be utilised, or take a necessary hit-up when the other forwards are tiring, or even perhaps take the long kick on the fifth tackle. Their defense must be absolutely stout. Being positioned in the 'middle 'third' to use your phrase, the team relies on having that defensive rock being there for near on eighty minutes. Locks will have some of the necessary skills and only the great ones will have all of them.

It has really a position that modern day coaches will utilise to the strength of their side. Some might even suggest it gets abused in a sense, bastardised if you will.

To that end in the context of Queensland in recent years the 13 has most definitely been an extra second rower, whether it is Johnson, Harrison or Myles with the number on his back. Apart from very brief instances, Queensland have not looked to their lock to be anything other than a workhorse. Myles fits the bill very well because he has tremendous aerobic capacity that allows him to meet the demands of an Origin encounter. The coaching staff have looked to the forwards to lay a platform of domination so the halves, hooker and fullback can be creative. It is a plan which leaves little room for the forwards to exhibit any creativity themselves.

So I have no qualms about naming Myles in the second row, particularly now that Parker looks like a strong chance of being named in the starting side. Parker adds a little more creativity and vision to this long-standing forward pack that had in some ways grown stale. His offloads during the last years series were previously unseen during the Meninga tenure, and I'm sure he has more to offer. Myles thankfully for us supporters will continue to play the role he always has, and be monolithic in his performances no doubt.

So in summation, I do not think either are really wrong about this, it just we perhaps view the lock position with a different eye. Just remember though that this is not something to be too upset about.

There are ball playing locks and there are non-ball playing locks. It's ridiculous to suggest that Myles and Johnson have not been playing lock because they haven't been Johnny Raper-esque link men. Your description is antiquated IMO. If you play middle-third and you rove (particularly in defence), you're playing lock. Every single coach in the NRL would tell you the same.

But I just want to be sure of your position. Are you saying you would play Parker in the middle-third and have Myles on a fringe?

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

Locks these days can be used as a 3rd frontrower, backrower or even a 2nd 5/8 depending on the coach and structure of the side. They are probably the hardest position to compartmentalise in the modern game.

Plenty of them get used as alternate dummy-halves too.

But the first definition is the most accurate. Lock and front row are almost indistinguishable, save minutes played and work rate. This is why Gallen's transition, if you want to call it that, to the front row was never in doubt. He already played virtually identical to prop anyway.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Not sure its the most accurate mate, plenty of sides dont use their locks as a 3rd front rower. Its just the most common in the NRL

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

Not sure its the most accurate mate, plenty of sides dont use their locks as a 3rd front rower. Its just the most common in the NRL

It's overwhelmingly common though so I think it's fair to say that's the role of the modern day lock.

 

[Señor]

Well, again, agree to disagree. I have a good reel here of Harrison's link play. I think he was our best forward in 2008 because of the number of times he got GI on the outside. His effort in Game 1, 2009 was also one of the best of any of our forwards.

He acted as a link/decoy in both of Boyd's tries in Game 1. I think he does less of it than he did in 2008 and 2009 though and a lot more of his involvement are runs around the ruck now.

As for defence, apart from his lapse on Carney in Game 2 last year, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a QLD forward with better defensive stats apart from Cameron Smith and maybe Nate Myles. Thaiday's defence has been far, far less reliable IMO.

I agree. Harrison's defence, particularly in the opening 20 minutes of Game 1 and 2 was relentless. He threw himself into so many tackles and barely missed any. It is unfortunate that his most memorable moment from the series was a very uncharacteristic (and costly) miss on Carney.

 

[Señor]

Cronk would be the ideal bench player for Queensland if he wasn't already filling a rather important spot in the starting side.

 

[Desert Qlder]

Plenty of them get used as alternate dummy-halves too.

But the first definition is the most accurate. Lock and front row are almost indistinguishable, save minutes played and work rate. This is why Gallen's transition, if you want to call it that, to the front row was never in doubt. He already played virtually identical to prop anyway.

But Gallen's ball-playing skills and offloading ability allow him to roam and he is often offering the final pass to a tryscorer. This is why your view on the position is far, far too narrow.

By naming Gallen in the front-row they sacrificed themselves another prop who could have eased the burden on him and allowed him the freedom to be more creative. It wasn't a good move.

Locks are most definitely not an extra front-rower.

As far as Parker is concerned, I would allow him the freedom to move across the field in attack as I believe he personally has the experience and ability to do so.

As I've said numerous times, it really matters little that Myles be named at 12, so I'm not sure why it's caused you so much consternation.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

But Gallen's ball-playing skills and offloading ability allow him to roam and he is often offering the final pass to a tryscorer. This is why your view on the position is far, far too narrow.

Yeah, Gallen's a regular Andrew Johns...:lol:

Flippancy aside, how is my view on the position too narrow? You're the one saying blokes like Myles and Johnson are not playing lock because they don't act as link men.

By naming Gallen in the front-row they sacrificed themselves another prop who could have eased the burden on him and allowed him the freedom to be more creative. It wasn't a good move.

You're pushing at an open door with me if you think NSW should play Gallen at lock so they can have another prop. I've been saying that for a while.

Locks are most definitely not an extra front-rower.

Nah, plenty of them clearly are. They play middle-third. They mainly take ruck hit-ups (though later in the count). Other than playing longer minutes and having a higher workrate in defence, due to roving, they're playing the same game.

As far as Parker is concerned, I would allow him the freedom to move across the field in attack as I believe he personally has the experience and ability to do so.

As I've said numerous times, it really matters little that Myles be named at 12, so I'm not sure why it's caused you so much consternation.

lol, because he's not playing second row. He's not running on a fringe. If you want to suggest interchangeable backrowers, who take turns roving, then by all means say so. But please don't tell me Nate Myles has not been playing lock these last three years. It's simply not true.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=7422127&postcount=37

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

He acted as a link/decoy in both of Boyd's tries in Game 1. I think he does less of it than he did in 2008 and 2009 though and a lot more of his involvement are runs around the ruck now.

I think it has to do with a heavier workload in defence. Since Johnson left his defensive numbers have gone up.