2015 Membership Discussion

[Noname36]

Wow ,
you are most likely a troll , as there are so many stupid and incorrect statements in your feeble note.

anyway

1) Memberships is just that .....members . You appear fixated that membership must be ticketed members.

2) What about GOLD stadium members who also decide to be Souths members? Apart from the large interstate, overseas contingent

3) Maybe for the upteenth time , Souths Membership numbers DO NOT include PET membership.

4) Which clubs only report Ticketed Members now? I would like to see that since you seem so sure

5) Souths move 2 home games to Cairns and Perth each year . How do you count those attendances versus their membership ?

6) how do you count the increased crowds at Souths away games , where many local members attend
e.g. Titans for starters

7) Souths have one of the highest average attendances last year. Not bad for a team that has many thursday, friday and a couple of monday nights games.These nights are not crowd favourites however have significant TV audience pulls which is why the media want Souths.

Expect you are a troll , if not , think before you dribble

If you wanna go on a rant about "dribble" at least learn to quote first.

And no, I'm certainly not trolling. There was information a couple of years ago that the majority of Souths memberships were non-ticketed. They were also selling memberships for pets. If either of these is no longer the case then I retract my comments but I've seen nothing to suggest that the club's membership trends have changed given the gap between their member numbers and crowd attendances.

And you ask why I am "fixated" on members needing to be ticketed? Well you answered that question yourself. Membership is just that...members. In terms of the game becoming a more attractive product and growing we need to increase crowd attendance. A club with 25k+ members should be getting way more people to games than Souths do...at least when they're playing in Sydney anyway. Especially when they've been so successful these past couple of years. If I'm a sponsor wanting to get involved in the game I'm not going to care how many memberships a team has sold if nobody is turning up to their games.

 

[Timmah]

well it seems poor reporting and the possibility of another membership race has resulted in almost no growth in the past 3-4 weeks.

That and, I dunno, the fact that most football offices were closed for at least 2 of those weeks? :lol:

 

[Galeforce]

If you wanna go on a rant about "dribble" at least learn to quote first.

And no, I'm certainly not trolling. There was information a couple of years ago that the majority of Souths memberships were non-ticketed. They were also selling memberships for pets. If either of these is no longer the case then I retract my comments but I've seen nothing to suggest that the club's membership trends have changed given the gap between their member numbers and crowd attendances.

And you ask why I am "fixated" on members needing to be ticketed? Well you answered that question yourself. Membership is just that...members. In terms of the game becoming a more attractive product and growing we need to increase crowd attendance. A club with 25k+ members should be getting way more people to games than Souths do...at least when they're playing in Sydney anyway. Especially when they've been so successful these past couple of years. If I'm a sponsor wanting to get involved in the game I'm not going to care how many memberships a team has sold if nobody is turning up to their games.

Again , your feeble response.
Does not answer key points i have raised that respond to your "feeble" comments.You ignored most of my points , why because you did not know how to respond to some basic arguments, that's why. and then you respond trying to save some face.

I will respond to your couple of feeble "responses" ,.

First the only folks talking about Souths counting pet memberships as their recent official memberships have been trolls. Even in this thread , if you bothered to read earlier comments you would have seen "pet" membership raised and discounted .

Second , read my initial response and try to understand......Souths have members in Sydney , and every city in Australia and overseas. South move home games to Perth and Cairns......why ? cause they are trying to build more membership momentum. Of course a Perth fan is unlike to come to Souths home game in Sydney. They do however , watch TV and sponsors care more about TV audience than crowds. Go figure.

Third, again for a slow learner.........Souths have one of the largest average crowds even though most of their home games in the last two years have been pushed into thursday, friday and monday night games.These nights are not family friendly , especially at ANZ stadium. Why does the NRL do this ? cause the MEDIA want it , as Souths have large TV audience and SPONSORS like that.

Now answer the question i specifically asked in relation to your FEEBLE arguments. Which clubs ONLY publish their members as Tickected members only? answer that or pissoff

 

[alien]

haha galeforce is on fire

 

[Perth Red]

Take Broncos third season membership,as similar in other clubs and souths crowds would be about right

13000 season members + away fans plus walk up. Crowd avg 18-20k.

 

[pHyR3]

That and, I dunno, the fact that most football offices were closed for at least 2 of those weeks? :lol:

NYE was 17 days ago, they havent updated their numbers since then? :roll:

oh right, most clubs give from the 24th of december until the 19th of january off to employees. my bad

 

[BlueandGold]

Take Broncos third season membership,as similar in other clubs and souths crowds would be about right

13000 season members + away fans plus walk up. Crowd avg 18-20k.

Parra had 13k full season memberships from a total of i think 20700 members in 2014.

 

[Noname36]

Again , your feeble response.
Does not answer key points i have raised that respond to your "feeble" comments.You ignored most of my points , why because you did not know how to respond to some basic arguments, that's why. and then you respond trying to save some face.

I will respond to your couple of feeble "responses" ,.

First the only folks talking about Souths counting pet memberships as their recent official memberships have been trolls. Even in this thread , if you bothered to read earlier comments you would have seen "pet" membership raised and discounted .

Second , read my initial response and try to understand......Souths have members in Sydney , and every city in Australia and overseas. South move home games to Perth and Cairns......why ? cause they are trying to build more membership momentum. Of course a Perth fan is unlike to come to Souths home game in Sydney. They do however , watch TV and sponsors care more about TV audience than crowds. Go figure.

Third, again for a slow learner.........Souths have one of the largest average crowds even though most of their home games in the last two years have been pushed into thursday, friday and monday night games.These nights are not family friendly , especially at ANZ stadium. Why does the NRL do this ? cause the MEDIA want it , as Souths have large TV audience and SPONSORS like that.

Now answer the question i specifically asked in relation to your FEEBLE arguments. Which clubs ONLY publish their members as Tickected members only? answer that or pissoff

:lol: no moron, I skipped over them because all I saw them as was a transparent attempt to deflect from my original point...that I'd like to see a breakdown of these membership numbers in terms of ticketed vs. non-ticketed memberships because I think it would help us explain some of the odd crowd attendance trends.

I used Souths as an example because they've been the major example of their membership numbers not being consistent with their crowd attendances for about 4-5 years now. I'm fully aware they take games elsewhere, and I'm also fully aware they have members elsewhere (as do all freaking clubs!)...but as I've already had to point out, I was referring to their poor (yes, I consider it poor in comparison to their membership numbers) crowd attendances in Sydney. You can try and make excuses about time slots and that all you want, but at the end of the day it shouldn't be hard to encourage fans to get to a Friday night blockbuster when you're playing well. Souths also have the luxury of playing in Sydney at a ground other clubs also use so they can pick up a heap of away supporters in their attendance numbers. There is absolutely no reason why their crowd numbers shouldn't far exceed or at least match their membership numbers. Sure, you need to take away out of area members, but they would be more than covered by opposition Sydney fans as it is.

So what is it? I'm genuinely curious...hence my original comment of wishing to see a breakdown of these membership numbers. Never once did I say I had an issue with Souths selling so many non-ticketed memberships (you were the one that seemed to jump to that conclusion) but maybe some of the effort the marketing team have put into their successful membership drive could be spent trying to improve their crowd numbers. You can insult me all you want but it's not a good look for the premiers to be playing in front of such as empty stadium and I think deep down you know that.

As for this part:

Now answer the question i specifically asked in relation to your FEEBLE arguments. Which clubs ONLY publish their members as Tickected members only? answer that or pissoff[

For starters for the previous 5 or so years the Knights were only showing their ticketed membership tally on their website...and that was the same tally that was released in the official NRL membership tally. For some reason this year they don't have any membership tally on their website so it might have changed but that's definitely one club that was only publishing it's ticketed members and I'm sure there are more that would do it that way too.

 

[Galeforce]

:lol: no moron, I skipped over them because all I saw them as was a transparent attempt to deflect from my original point...that I'd like to see a breakdown of these membership numbers in terms of ticketed vs. non-ticketed memberships because I think it would help us explain some of the odd crowd attendance trends.

I used Souths as an example because they've been the major example of their membership numbers not being consistent with their crowd attendances for about 4-5 years now. I'm fully aware they take games elsewhere, and I'm also fully aware they have members elsewhere (as do all freaking clubs!)...but as I've already had to point out, I was referring to their poor (yes, I consider it poor in comparison to their membership numbers) crowd attendances in Sydney. You can try and make excuses about time slots and that all you want, but at the end of the day it shouldn't be hard to encourage fans to get to a Friday night blockbuster when you're playing well. Souths also have the luxury of playing in Sydney at a ground other clubs also use so they can pick up a heap of away supporters in their attendance numbers. There is absolutely no reason why their crowd numbers shouldn't far exceed or at least match their membership numbers. Sure, you need to take away out of area members, but they would be more than covered by opposition Sydney fans as it is.

So what is it? I'm genuinely curious...hence my original comment of wishing to see a breakdown of these membership numbers. Never once did I say I had an issue with Souths selling so many non-ticketed memberships (you were the one that seemed to jump to that conclusion) but maybe some of the effort the marketing team have put into their successful membership drive could be spent trying to improve their crowd numbers. You can insult me all you want but it's not a good look for the premiers to be playing in front of such as empty stadium and I think deep down you know that.

As for this part:



For starters for the previous 5 or so years the Knights were only showing their ticketed membership tally on their website...and that was the same tally that was released in the official NRL membership tally. For some reason this year they don't have any membership tally on their website so it might have changed but that's definitely one club that was only publishing it's ticketed members and I'm sure there are more that would do it that way too.

Good , the last paragraph has some facts to support your initial discussion and i will get to that, because it is interesting and not the way you expect .

Next , i do agree with your point that it would be interesting to see Club membership broken down between Ticket and Non Ticket

Re Knights , they are doing a good job trying to get maximum attendance at home games and given a one city team in a relatively small stadium , there is no reason why the stadium should not be FULL every game. That should be knights focus as i do not think they have a sizeable TV audience pull outside of their region.

As for the Membership , very interesting ....... The knights do sell ticket and non ticket membership and i have no idea what they recorded as membership in prior years or plan to this year. Leave that for knowledgeable Knights fan to respond if they wish.

However the Current Membership prices for Souths versus Knights is interesting

Knights ALL GAME ticketed membership ( hill) for adult is $140
Knights ALL GAME ticketed membership ( hill) for Juniors is $60

Souths Supporter membership ( NO games ) for Adult is $95
Souths Support membership ( no games ) for Juniors is $75

Souths Perth Membership ( 1 WA game and 2 sydney games) for Adult is $120
Souths perth Membership ( as above) Junior $90

Consider those facts and then think about what it means , if Souths have so many NON Ticketed members ( which they do all around Australia)

P.S ...I have 5 GOLD membership at ANZ Stadium for 5 seats and can attend every Souths home game at ANZ and a couple of away games there. I also have BOOKED car space for the season for all those games. I rarely go to thursday , friday or monday night games ( maybe attend 25% of those games).....why ? because i prefer not to deal with Sydney traffic on those nights , consider the kids school days and the convenience of watching on Foxtel or Channel nine.I also happy to pay for non attendance Souths membership for myself and the kids.

 

[Galeforce]

Noname,
still thinking about this?

Consider this as well

Souths All Game - General Admission Red & Green adult is $245 ( vs Knights $140)
Souths All Game - as above Junior is $95 (vs Knights $60)

Knights are practically giving away their All game seats vs Souths on pricing. I wonder if that is a reason for Knights financial issues?Why buy a Knights Non game membership when the All Game membership is a couple of dollars more.


After consideration, I think the interesting fact should be All Members (ticketed and and non ticketed excluding pets of course) and Membership $$ received. The disappointing fact for Knights is that they are giving their seat prices away to members and still the ground is not sold out each game.

 

[Timmah]

NYE was 17 days ago, they havent updated their numbers since then? :roll:

oh right, most clubs give from the 24th of december until the 19th of january off to employees. my bad

Most clubs closed on Dec 19 or so, some 24th. Then almost all re-opened the week of Jan 5 (not NYE/NYD). That's only 2 weeks of potential sales and it's not really a prime time for membership anyway. It picks up once on-field action recommences (i.e. Nines, All Stars) and will continue.

 

[dangerousdave]

After consideration, I think the interesting fact should be All Members (ticketed and and non ticketed excluding pets of course) and Membership $$ received. The disappointing fact for Knights is that they are giving their seat prices away to members and still the ground is not sold out each game.

You expect the Knights to average 33k just because they have cheap tickets?
This also implies that you assume that all Knights tickets are in the cheapest category.

I don't use these kinds of words lightly... but... you are a silly person

 

[Galeforce]

You expect the Knights to average 33k just because they have cheap tickets?
This also implies that you assume that all Knights tickets are in the cheapest category.

I don't use these kinds of words lightly... but... you are a silly person

I think it is a reasonable objective to have FULL capacity , if 33k is the capacity , sure on a good afternoon and or a good friday/saturday night . Why not given

a) less travel issues for Knights fans
b) the cheap tickets available from non reserve seat membership
c) one team town

I assume the empty seats at the Knights game are in the non reserve area i.e. cheapest category. That is the only IMPLIED i make . Please correct me i.e. when the stadium is not full where are the empty seats? If you have no idea on this question, well in addition to my statement below , shows you are a dumb turd for responding in the first place.

your intelligence is clear from your last statement .

 

[Perth Red]

Can a city the size of Newcastle generate crowds of 33k? I doubt it, would need a higher % of the population to attend games than pretty much any other city/sport generates.

 

[Panther_Daz]

Can a city the size of Newcastle generate crowds of 33k? I doubt it, would need a higher % of the population to attend games than pretty much any other city/sport generates.

Geelong's population is less than half of Newcastle's and don't they average about 30k?

 

[hineyrulz]

Geelong's population is less than half of Newcastle's and don't they average about 30k?

But it's in Geelong, what else is there to do besides root your sister???

 

[Noname36]

Noname,
still thinking about this?

Consider this as well

Souths All Game - General Admission Red & Green adult is $245 ( vs Knights $140)
Souths All Game - as above Junior is $95 (vs Knights $60)

Knights are practically giving away their All game seats vs Souths on pricing. I wonder if that is a reason for Knights financial issues?Why buy a Knights Non game membership when the All Game membership is a couple of dollars more.


After consideration, I think the interesting fact should be All Members (ticketed and and non ticketed excluding pets of course) and Membership $$ received. The disappointing fact for Knights is that they are giving their seat prices away to members and still the ground is not sold out each game.

Good , the last paragraph has some facts to support your initial discussion and i will get to that, because it is interesting and not the way you expect .

Next , i do agree with your point that it would be interesting to see Club membership broken down between Ticket and Non Ticket

Re Knights , they are doing a good job trying to get maximum attendance at home games and given a one city team in a relatively small stadium , there is no reason why the stadium should not be FULL every game. That should be knights focus as i do not think they have a sizeable TV audience pull outside of their region.

As for the Membership , very interesting ....... The knights do sell ticket and non ticket membership and i have no idea what they recorded as membership in prior years or plan to this year. Leave that for knowledgeable Knights fan to respond if they wish.

However the Current Membership prices for Souths versus Knights is interesting

Knights ALL GAME ticketed membership ( hill) for adult is $140
Knights ALL GAME ticketed membership ( hill) for Juniors is $60

Souths Supporter membership ( NO games ) for Adult is $95
Souths Support membership ( no games ) for Juniors is $75

Souths Perth Membership ( 1 WA game and 2 sydney games) for Adult is $120
Souths perth Membership ( as above) Junior $90

Consider those facts and then think about what it means , if Souths have so many NON Ticketed members ( which they do all around Australia)

P.S ...I have 5 GOLD membership at ANZ Stadium for 5 seats and can attend every Souths home game at ANZ and a couple of away games there. I also have BOOKED car space for the season for all those games. I rarely go to thursday , friday or monday night games ( maybe attend 25% of those games).....why ? because i prefer not to deal with Sydney traffic on those nights , consider the kids school days and the convenience of watching on Foxtel or Channel nine.I also happy to pay for non attendance Souths membership for myself and the kids.

Those are some interesting cost comparisons, thanks for digging those up. However in reality I'm not sure how useful they are given they ignore some of the most important facts:

1. As others have mentioned, expecting an average of 33k in a place the size of Newcastle is impossible, especially considering they struggle to get many away supporters there other than those that live in the area. It's not like in Sydney where you can easily rock up at an away game. The Knights mostly play on Sunday as well...and while that's good in the sense of local families being able to attend, it's very difficult for away supporters or out of town members to make a game given they have to work on Monday. I'm a Knights ticketed member who lives in Sydney and there was a lot of games I don't make given the idea of having to get back to Sydney on Sunday night often puts me and my family/friends off. I'm sure it's the same for other out of town supporters and opposition supporters...especially when the Knights often play on the 4pm free to air game so even those without Fox don't need to get to the game.

2) You need to look at those prices relative to the targeted market. In general costs in Newcastle and average earnings are a lot lower than most areas in Sydney. You also need to take into account the fact that the Knights haven't had much success on the field lately and have a circus off it. You simply can't charge people in Newcastle the same as you would a Sydney club that has been very successful in recent years (winning a comp last year) and expect people to buy them.

Knights should absolutely take some notes on Souths membership drive, but in terms of their crowd numbers I think they're doing as well as they absolutely can at the moment all things considered. The fact that they still had around the 3rd or 4th highest average crowds last year (only around 2k less than Souths) despite coming between 14th and dead last for most of the year and not having access to opposition fans like the Sydney clubs do is nothing to scoff at.

Geelong's population is less than half of Newcastle's and don't they average about 30k?

I admit I don't know much about AFL but isn't 30k a rather small crowd for AFL? It's all relative with the game remember. On average the NRL have much lower crowds than the AFL do.

 

[Canard]

Geelong's population is less than half of Newcastle's and don't they average about 30k?

Couple of points.

- Geelong is the most successful club of the past decade, with 4 Grand Finals and 3 wins (I think)

- They play all there blockbuster games in Melbourne, so its hard to say that there crowds are great based on the population of Geelong

- Geelong is only 75km from Melbourne

They still get good crowds, but so does AFL, for some unknown reason.

 

[Timmah]

Geelong's population is less than half of Newcastle's and don't they average about 30k?

Geelong play the bulk of their games at the MCG or Etihad don't they? The added benefit of that is packed stands at Simonds when they do play there are opportunities are limited to do so.

If only the same theory applied to SGI/WST home games at their traditional venues...

 

[pHyR3]

Most clubs closed on Dec 19 or so, some 24th. Then almost all re-opened the week of Jan 5 (not NYE/NYD). That's only 2 weeks of potential sales and it's not really a prime time for membership anyway. It picks up once on-field action recommences (i.e. Nines, All Stars) and will continue.

then how come last years figures have so quickly almost caught up to 2015 figures?

either growth in the last 3-4 weeks has been exceedingly poor, or reporting has been poor.

i'm inclined to go with the latter for now