2017 Crowd Watch

[adamkungl]

Everyone championing the glorious Central Coast over Perth, lol the CC has turned out more than a few shithouse crowds while simultaneously crying for a team, mostly in fine weather.
6232 in 2009.
8412 in 2009.
8616 in 2011.
8761 in 2008.
9343 in 2008.

But good crowd @ Gosford on Saturday. Yet more proof that day games at decent stadiums will pull a crowd.

 

[Timmah]

The 6232 was mid-June in torrential rain, funnily enough Roosters v Titans.

I think the point to be made here is that CC makes a good case for NRL inclusion - but yes, will be subject to the odd shithouse crowd.

When those shithouse crowds happened, we're told by PR and others that support has waned on the CC for a team and any excuse wasn't ok. Now the same is happening with Perth, NRL are holding out and interest isn't as high perhaps as it has been.

I think you're right - decent weather & timeslots help, but the bottom line is that both places make a good case for inclusion regardless of what a crowd figure is at any given time.

 

[adamkungl]

Gallop era I was all for Central Coast but as time has gone on I think the importance of other markets has become clearer. If we were to say there are 4 expansion slots in the next 2 decades unfortunately now I'd put Central Coast 5th unless a Sydney team relocates.

It's not a criticism of the Coast as I believe they could host a team as well as any current team, but a testament to the huge potential in expansion for the NRL. Perth Adelaide Brisbane and NZ are all million+ population markets that we can potentially crack.

I'd like to see Gosford guaranteed 4 games a year though.

 

[Timmah]

The key problem with the Coast and I think this is evident with the Mariners in the A-League, is the lack of big name corporate support. As you say it would almost certainly have to be a Sydney team relocating.

 

[carcharias]

The 6232 was mid-June in torrential rain, funnily enough Roosters v Titans.

I think the point to be made here is that CC makes a good case for NRL inclusion - but yes, will be subject to the odd shithouse crowd.

When those shithouse crowds happened, we're told by PR and others that support has waned on the CC for a team and any excuse wasn't ok. Now the same is happening with Perth, NRL are holding out and interest isn't as high perhaps as it has been.

I think you're right - decent weather & timeslots help, but the bottom line is that both places make a good case for inclusion regardless of what a crowd figure is at any given time.

Give them their own team
They'll show up

 

[Perth Red]

Given clubs are likely to need around the $22-25mill revenue mark in the future to keep pace with the grant increase coming, any club without both a strong supporter base and a strong corporate appeal is going to struggle.
NRL grant likely to be $13mill so that is going to be around $9-12mill a year clubs without a LC are going to have to bring in from sponsorship, crowds, memberships and merch. to stay viable.

A tough ask for any expansion side, but even more so in a crowded NSW market. Full or part relocation is still looking the most likely outcome in the next 2 decades.

 

[Marlins]

round 17.

parra 14061 good
titans 13140 good
broncos 41741 excellent
roosters 20060 excellent
perth 6258 pathetic
canberra 10226 ok
knights 19531 excellent
souffs 14103 good

17,390 Round Average
Pretty good round

 

[Frank Discussion]

The NRL have really missed a trick when they took over the Tigers and St George by not forcing a soft relocation on them.

Let me start this by saying that it's totally unfair that teams should be forced to shut down or moved. But there are ways to soften the blow and if the NRL had any brains it would come up with an innovative model for expansion which will totally fix crowds at the same time . I am loathe to write posts like this but I am bored so hear me out.

The first move for the ARLC is to "force" STGI to move full time to Wollongong and Wests to move to Perth by refusing them any coin (and registration) to assist in their debts under the following caveat. (You also pay the Roosters to move to the Central Coast, but allow them to leave their offices in Sydney**). You make these clubs sign contracts that ensure the longevity of team colours and mascots.

The second thing you do is reclaim 2 home fixtures per team across the NRL which become neutral, NRL run fixtures.

These 2 neutral fixtures are immediately granted back to Western Tigers, Easts Roosters and Illawarra Dragons to play at their old home grounds as compensation for being moved. You then allocate 2 high drawing away games (by pulling these home games from rivals like Canterbury and Parramatta under the neutral model) at traditional venues like Leichhardt, SFS, Campbo and Kogarah. This way your forced relocation teams get 4 games per year in their old heartland. On top of that they get a whole new fan base to call their own.

For the other clubs and the remaining Neutral fixtures you then allocate these games to Bathurst, Darwin, Hobart, Albury, Adelaide, Coffs Harbour etc etc. A mix of the bush and locations that don't warrant their own expansion sides . Of course you do this strategically and send Penrith to Bathurst, Storm to Adelaide etc etc twice a year. The games are underwritten by the NRL and the clubs are paid a fixed amount from the gate.

You then call for a second Brisbane and second NZ team and the winning bids are installed in 2019. Or not. You at least have Perth now.

Boom.

National/International footprint.
Less games in Sydney.
More games in the bush.
Some pain. Mostly gain.
Fuller Stadiums.
More memberships.

**If the roosters refuse as they are likely to do this as they are likely to do, in a power play you allocate their neutral games to Gosford anyway. They would be crazy not to play four games up there under this model and have a presence there now that their juniors are up there.

 

[OldPanther]

The NRL have really missed a trick when they took over the Tigers and St George by not forcing a soft relocation on them.

Let me start this by saying that it's totally unfair that teams should be forced to shut down or moved. But there are ways to soften the blow and if the NRL had any brains it would come up with an innovative model for expansion which will totally fix crowds at the same time . I am loathe to write posts like this but I am bored so hear me out.

The first move for the ARLC is to "force" STGI to move full time to Wollongong and Wests to move to Perth by refusing them any coin (and registration) to assist in their debts under the following caveat. (You also pay the Roosters to move to the Central Coast, but allow them to leave their offices in Sydney**). You make these clubs sign contracts that ensure the longevity of team colours and mascots.

The second thing you do is reclaim 2 home fixtures per team across the NRL which become neutral, NRL run fixtures.

These 2 neutral fixtures are immediately granted back to Western Tigers, Easts Roosters and Illawarra Dragons to play at their old home grounds as compensation for being moved. You then allocate 2 high drawing away games (by pulling these home games from rivals like Canterbury and Parramatta under the neutral model) at traditional venues like Leichhardt, SFS, Campbo and Kogarah. This way your forced relocation teams get 4 games per year in their old heartland. On top of that they get a whole new fan base to call their own.

For the other clubs and the remaining Neutral fixtures you then allocate these games to Bathurst, Darwin, Hobart, Albury, Adelaide, Coffs Harbour etc etc. A mix of the bush and locations that don't warrant their own expansion sides . Of course you do this strategically and send Penrith to Bathurst, Storm to Adelaide etc etc twice a year. The games are underwritten by the NRL and the clubs are paid a fixed amount from the gate.

You then call for a second Brisbane and second NZ team and the winning bids are installed in 2019. Or not. You at least have Perth now.

Boom.

National/International footprint.
Less games in Sydney.
More games in the bush.
Some pain. Mostly gain.
Fuller Stadiums.
More memberships.

**If the roosters refuse as they are likely to do this as they are likely to do, in a power play you allocate their neutral games to Gosford anyway. They would be crazy not to play four games up there under this model and have a presence there now that their juniors are up there.

Penrith would tell the NRL to get stuffed. We already have a deal signed with Bathurst and the club is spending it's own money on it. It'd be stupid to try and force a change to that.

 

[M2D2]

The NRL cant force clubs to do shit. Just have a look at the salary cap issues for next year.

 

[adamkungl]

The NRL have really missed a trick when they took over the Tigers and St George by not forcing a soft relocation on them.

Let me start this by saying that it's totally unfair that teams should be forced to shut down or moved. But there are ways to soften the blow and if the NRL had any brains it would come up with an innovative model for expansion which will totally fix crowds at the same time . I am loathe to write posts like this but I am bored so hear me out.

The first move for the ARLC is to "force" STGI to move full time to Wollongong and Wests to move to Perth by refusing them any coin (and registration) to assist in their debts under the following caveat. (You also pay the Roosters to move to the Central Coast, but allow them to leave their offices in Sydney**). You make these clubs sign contracts that ensure the longevity of team colours and mascots.

The second thing you do is reclaim 2 home fixtures per team across the NRL which become neutral, NRL run fixtures.

These 2 neutral fixtures are immediately granted back to Western Tigers, Easts Roosters and Illawarra Dragons to play at their old home grounds as compensation for being moved. You then allocate 2 high drawing away games (by pulling these home games from rivals like Canterbury and Parramatta under the neutral model) at traditional venues like Leichhardt, SFS, Campbo and Kogarah. This way your forced relocation teams get 4 games per year in their old heartland. On top of that they get a whole new fan base to call their own.

For the other clubs and the remaining Neutral fixtures you then allocate these games to Bathurst, Darwin, Hobart, Albury, Adelaide, Coffs Harbour etc etc. A mix of the bush and locations that don't warrant their own expansion sides . Of course you do this strategically and send Penrith to Bathurst, Storm to Adelaide etc etc twice a year. The games are underwritten by the NRL and the clubs are paid a fixed amount from the gate.

You then call for a second Brisbane and second NZ team and the winning bids are installed in 2019. Or not. You at least have Perth now.

Boom.

National/International footprint.
Less games in Sydney.
More games in the bush.
Some pain. Mostly gain.
Fuller Stadiums.
More memberships.

**If the roosters refuse as they are likely to do this as they are likely to do, in a power play you allocate their neutral games to Gosford anyway. They would be crazy not to play four games up there under this model and have a presence there now that their juniors are up there.

I like the neutral game idea, no reason it has to be attached to forced relocations though.
10 home games and 2 neutral games is an idea worth examining. Though the exact details would need further work, the first concern being who takes the income.

As for the Roosters being crazy not to move 'coz juniors' - wishful thinking at best.
We've been successful for decades in our current location with minimal local juniors thanks to wealthy big city support, why would gaining juniors by investing in the Coast be an incentive to move? If anything it further entrenches us where we are. Local juniors have not been a cornerstone of the Roosters club for decades (note there is a difference between local juniors, and junior development). The benefits of moving closer to local juniors would be well outweighed by moving away for corporate support.

 

[Frank Discussion]

Penrith would tell the NRL to get stuffed. We already have a deal signed with Bathurst and the club is spending it's own money on it. It'd be stupid to try and force a change to that.

The idea is that you work with this deals. It has to have a payoff for the club.

The NRL cant force clubs to do shit. Just have a look at the salary cap issues for next year.

The NRL controls the draw. Clubs would be adequately compensated under the model.

 

[gallagher]

The NRL have really missed a trick when they took over the Tigers and St George by not forcing a soft relocation on them.

Let me start this by saying that it's totally unfair that teams should be forced to shut down or moved. But there are ways to soften the blow and if the NRL had any brains it would come up with an innovative model for expansion which will totally fix crowds at the same time . I am loathe to write posts like this but I am bored so hear me out.

The first move for the ARLC is to "force" STGI to move full time to Wollongong and Wests to move to Perth by refusing them any coin (and registration) to assist in their debts under the following caveat. (You also pay the Roosters to move to the Central Coast, but allow them to leave their offices in Sydney**). You make these clubs sign contracts that ensure the longevity of team colours and mascots.

The second thing you do is reclaim 2 home fixtures per team across the NRL which become neutral, NRL run fixtures.

These 2 neutral fixtures are immediately granted back to Western Tigers, Easts Roosters and Illawarra Dragons to play at their old home grounds as compensation for being moved. You then allocate 2 high drawing away games (by pulling these home games from rivals like Canterbury and Parramatta under the neutral model) at traditional venues like Leichhardt, SFS, Campbo and Kogarah. This way your forced relocation teams get 4 games per year in their old heartland. On top of that they get a whole new fan base to call their own.

For the other clubs and the remaining Neutral fixtures you then allocate these games to Bathurst, Darwin, Hobart, Albury, Adelaide, Coffs Harbour etc etc. A mix of the bush and locations that don't warrant their own expansion sides . Of course you do this strategically and send Penrith to Bathurst, Storm to Adelaide etc etc twice a year. The games are underwritten by the NRL and the clubs are paid a fixed amount from the gate.

You then call for a second Brisbane and second NZ team and the winning bids are installed in 2019. Or not. You at least have Perth now.

Boom.

National/International footprint.
Less games in Sydney.
More games in the bush.
Some pain. Mostly gain.
Fuller Stadiums.
More memberships.

**If the roosters refuse as they are likely to do this as they are likely to do, in a power play you allocate their neutral games to Gosford anyway. They would be crazy not to play four games up there under this model and have a presence there now that their juniors are up there.

Tigers dont have a debt to the NRL and have a contract to play in the NRL till 2022. How can the NRL force them tio do anything?

 

[Perth Red]

NRL seems to be telling clubs, if it sticks to it time will tell, that they can have the big pay day but no more bail outs. If clubs get into strife post next year then relocation may be their only option. Sadly the NRl has spent all its money though so doesn't have a relocation war chest to help ease the transition. Also Titans and Knights have yet to find buyers, maybe the NRL is holding on to them till they get the extra grant and look more attractive, or maybe they cant find a buyer in which case what do they do with them?

Good idea re neutral games, ten home games and two on the road is the way to go and the NRL underwriting them so zero risk to clubs (feel sorry for Manly this week who would have likely made a loss in Perth due to poor weather).

Other key issue is pricing. Its all over the place, needs some consistency and to be brought down to appeal tp lower income families that make up the majority of the NRL market base.

 

[colly]

NRL seems to be telling clubs, if it sticks to it time will tell, that they can have the big pay day but no more bail outs. If clubs get into strife post next year then relocation may be their only option. Sadly the NRl has spent all its money though so doesn't have a relocation war chest to help ease the transition. Also Titans and Knights have yet to find buyers, maybe the NRL is holding on to them till they get the extra grant and look more attractive, or maybe they cant find a buyer in which case what do they do with them?

Good idea re neutral games, ten home games and two on the road is the way to go and the NRL underwriting them so zero risk to clubs (feel sorry for Manly this week who would have likely made a loss in Perth due to poor weather).

Other key issue is pricing. Its all over the place, needs some consistency and to be brought down to appeal tp lower income families that make up the majority of the NRL market base.

Newcastle will be bought by Wests.
Before next season kicks off, negotiations between the Wests Group and NRL are expected to culminate in Wests taking ownership of the Knights. SMH

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ing-rebuke-from-chairman-20170703-gx3v6a.html

Also a 2015 report with the financial viability of Wests Newcastle.
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3120308/wests-empire-expands-poll/

 

[papabear]

The Roosters pull more in there CC / Adelaide / anywehre but sydney then in the SFS

The roosters dont have any juniors in eastern sydney.

Why exactly are the roosters based out of sydney.

Off the field you would imagine they could be like the broncos if they were based out of brisbane / perth / adelaide and who knows they might be less hated..

might.

 

[Clifferd]

Tigers dont have a debt to the NRL and have a contract to play in the NRL till 2022. How can the NRL force them tio do anything?

Makes me laugh. Idiots with no idea

 

[JamesRustle]

Sitting in the car trying to get to the pub to watch the Roosters game before heading to NIB, can't get out because it's absolutely pissing down.

Try the door handle

 

[Cumberland Throw]

Slowly clawing back the deficit on last year.. bit more dry weather.. be nice..

 

[M2D2]

Tigers dont have a debt to the NRL and have a contract to play in the NRL till 2022. How can the NRL force them tio do anything?

Makes me laugh. Idiots with no idea

Except that the agreement from Wests was to pay HALF of balmains NRL debt, not all for that 25% and the other half hasnt been paid yet...so.....
Yeah, They do still have an NRL debt.