2018 Draw

[Pommy]

Double headers are a cynical and fake way to boost crowd averages.
These games will likely attract less total fans than 2 separate games but the 'home' teams involved will both get to count a crowd nearly twice the normal. Yay.

I will go to an extra game next year that I wouldn’t have gone to otherwise.
I will spend a bit more money in the ground it will look better on TV.

I’m not sure how it will attract less fans than having two seperate games?
Who is going to say I’m not going to go because there’s another game on?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Double headers are a cynical and fake way to boost crowd averages.
These games will likely attract less total fans than 2 separate games but the 'home' teams involved will both get to count a crowd nearly twice the normal. Yay.

Fake way to boost crowd averages? Why so negative. Why say “fake” instead of a “good way” to boost crowd averages? The games that are being played in the double headers are generally low drawing games. How is it not good business sense to do a double header that crowds/fans do want. Storm playing in the Perth double header has me interested in heading over and watching it. More crowd,more fans, more money for clubs and Nrl.

 

[whall15]

Souths got 10,594 against Manly this year whilst Parra got 17,003 vs Cronulla. So about 30k would be the cut off to make the double header worthwhile.

 

[Pommy]

As Premiers, Melbourne should at least have the benefit of opening the season at home. But I get it was locked in before they won the comp.

Since when was that a thing? We played our first game of 2015 at Suncorp.

 

[adamkungl]

Fake way to boost crowd averages? Why so negative. Why say “fake” instead of a “good way” to boost crowd averages? The games that are being played in the double headers are generally low drawing games. How is it not good business sense to do a double header that crowds/fans do want. Storm playing in the Perth double header has me interested in heading over and watching it. More crowd,more fans, more money for clubs and Nrl.

Fake because each attending person is counted in two teams' crowd average. The records will give the impression of 2x 30,000 crowds but the reality is there was only one.

If for example, only 20,000 people show up, 2 teams are going to record a 20,000 crowd when the reality is they attracted 10,000 each and standalone home games would have attracted more, but it will be spun into a success.

I will go to an extra game next year that I wouldn’t have gone to otherwise.
I will spend a bit more money in the ground it will look better on TV.

I’m not sure how it will attract less fans than having two seperate games?
Who is going to say I’m not going to go because there’s another game on?

There are some positives IF it clears that 30k cutoff point you mentioned. I'm skeptical it will, but if it does I'll happily admit to being wrong. If it doesn't it's a wasted home game for someone.

A real example, the 2013 quarter finals double header.
Sharks v Cowboys + Roosters v Manly attracted 32,747.
Hard to see how these 2 games individually don't attract 40+ in total separately.
This years equivalent's with similar teams attracted 37k total.

 

[Diesel]

Channel 9 bless the premiers with a game against the Broncos at Suncorp on a Friday night since they haven't won shit since 2006.

 

[Pommy]

Fake because each attending person is counted in two teams' crowd average. The records will give the impression of 2x 30,000 crowds but the reality is there was only one.

If for example, only 20,000 people show up, 2 teams are going to record a 20,000 crowd when the reality is they attracted 10,000 each and standalone home games would have attracted more, but it will be spun into a success.



There are some positives IF it clears that 30k cutoff point you mentioned. I'm skeptical it will, but if it does I'll happily admit to being wrong. If it doesn't it's a wasted home game for someone.

A real example, the 2013 quarter finals double header.
Sharks v Cowboys + Roosters v Manly attracted 32,747.
Hard to see how these 2 games individually don't attract 40+ in total separately.
This years equivalent's with similar teams attracted 37k total.

I appreciate the example but was there any other factors holding back fan numbers?
Ticket cost, weather, was a team in bad form and expected to lose?

I just find it hard to see why fans would decide not to go to a game because it’s a double header. For what reason?

 

[PARRA_FAN]

That was my thinking too, but EP might be on it's last legs as there's talk of a new Auckland Stadium in the works

My thoughts too, given there's no 9's this year but hopefully a big crowd at Mt Smart.

I did hear of a potential new stadium in the heart of the city but capacity not as a big as Eden Park.

 

[adamkungl]

I appreciate the example but was there any other factors holding back fan numbers?
Ticket cost, weather, was a team in bad form and expected to lose?

I just find it hard to see why fans would decide not to go to a game because it’s a double header. For what reason?

It was a fine day from memory. Logically you would assume that a double header would attract minimum the 2 normal expected crowds but does it actually work out that way?

An example in favour of double headers. 44,127 attended the Suncorp double header this year.
Manly v Broncos + Storm v Titans, likely a better crowd than these 2 games get combined at their normal home grounds.. but 2 teams had to sell a home game interstate to pull it off, and both lost.
Good business decision perhaps? I still think both teams counting it in their average is dodgy as.

 

[Pommy]

It was a fine day from memory. Logically you would assume that a double header would attract minimum the 2 normal expected crowds but does it actually work out that way?

An example in favour of double headers. 44,127 attended the Suncorp double header this year.
Manly v Broncos + Storm v Titans, likely a better crowd than these 2 games get combined at their normal home grounds.. but 2 teams had to sell a home game interstate to pull it off, and both lost.
Good business decision perhaps? I still think both teams counting it in their average is dodgy as.

These are two games at the team’s home ground though.
We can’t complain about poor crowds and then complain more when the clubs try to do something about it.

 

[RockWheel]

Double headers are a cynical and fake way to boost crowd averages.
These games will likely attract less total fans than 2 separate games but the 'home' teams involved will both get to count a crowd nearly twice the normal. Yay.

I don't think that's how they count double headers for the average. I thought it was the total crowd divided by the two games was how it was determined.

 

[adamkungl]

These are two games at the team’s home ground though.
We can’t complain about poor crowds and then complain more when the clubs try to do something about it.

Like I said, if they pull huge crowds I'm happy to admit I was wrong. Everyone has their opinions on how to improve things, this isnt the way I'd personally go about it but I hope it's successful.

 

[NK Arsenal]

With the spoilers of the double headers given out hopefully it isn't long till they release the whole draw

 

[Pedge1971]

With the Knights and Tigers hooefully likely and able to improve up the ladder this year I think they shouls give a decent increase to overall average attendances

 

[Stallion]

Like I said, if they pull huge crowds I'm happy to admit I was wrong. Everyone has their opinions on how to improve things, this isnt the way I'd personally go about it but I hope it's successful.

Speaking to a casual fan the other day and one of the reasons for not attending a game was that they missed out on the next game on TV whilst travelling back home. This(the double header) eliminates that issue somewhat? So its not a bad idea . Just hope they don't price gouge the ticket prices!

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The crowds have struggled due to the non-Sydney teams being shelved to Campbelltown and fairweather fans not bothering to show up.

You put Wests vs Manly on a Sunday afternoon you'll get 16k easily.

St George-Illawarra realised the flaw and have returned to their traditional base. Home games require atmosphere that is better generated at the local grounds as opposed to the empty vacuum at Homebush.

I love this arguement, "Suburban grounds might be shit, but ANZ is shittier". Ever think there might be a "not shit" option?

Centralised stadiums are demonstrably more popular than suburban parks (just look at the crowd numbers like the ones Timmah pointed out). And ANZ might be terrible TODAY, but it will be torn down and rebuilt in about 4 years time (thats not a hypothetical, there is an actual timeline on when that will be completed)

Campbeltown and Penrith are probably the only suburban Syndey grounds that the NRL can justify given they sit right on the city fringes without a better alternative close by. BUT the centralised stadium policy is the future of RL in Sydney, taking MORE games to the suburbs is only holding the game back and locking out fans...

At some point the financial aspect has to be weighed against the 'aura' of the home venue. If Campbelltown/Leichhardt councils would be open to the idea of having the grounds sponsored (like most of them are) it could alleviate the cost and assist the club to make its profits whilst staying true to its traditional bases.

Finding a way to make sub-10k crowds profitable? Brilliant....

Or we could leave Leichhardt in the 1970s where it belongs and ask fans to travel 3 suburbs over to Homebush where we can get a decent stadium, decent crowds and decent corportate support.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Good work on the Double Headers. THe ARLC and the clubs finally seem to be taking the crowd stuff seriously...

I think these big events will have flow on effects to the smaller games. Now we just need a centralised stadium policy to turn these big-game, one off visiters into regular attendance.

 

[Timmah]

Or we could leave Leichhardt in the 1970s where it belongs and ask fans to travel 3 suburbs over to Homebush where we can get a decent stadium, decent crowds and decent corportate support.

I'd like to think we don't abandon them completely (that will come down to individual decisions per club), but ultimately for clubs like WT is to play the bulk of games at either ANZ or WSS, and only have a heritage game at Leichhardt and Campbelltown each year (i.e. a 5ANZ-5WSS-1LO-1CSS or 10WSS-1LO-1CSS arrangement). Similar to how Canterbury currently play 1-2 at Belmore, and the majority of the rest at ANZ (give or take one alternate market game).

 

[Pommy]

will be torn down and rebuilt in about 4 years time (thats not a hypothetical, there is an actual timeline on when that will be completed)

Isn’t it actually still hypothetical? I know they said they were going to do it but people say a lot.

 

[Timmah]

@adamkungl I'm not sure the double header figures get added to the averages of the clubs hosting, for what its worth.

The NRL has Storm at 16535 and Manly at 11654 which doesn't include the Suncorp games - add those in and Melbourne jump to 18375 (stay in 2nd place) and Manly jump to 13973 (jump from 15th to 11th).