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2019 coach

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,858
Do you have a source or am I the only one to get comments deleted for not providing one?

Yes I did have a source and he was correct other than the fact he was wrong about the length of the deal for Michael Maguire. 3 years instead of the four year deal he told me.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Yes I did have a source and he was correct other than the fact he was wrong about the length of the deal for Michael Maguire. 3 years instead of the four year deal he told me.

Oh I know you had a source I meant not posting links on here etc. I've had posts deleted for not providing my sources. Not a go at you.
 

Whino

Bench
Messages
3,392
It's unfinished business': Why Cleary needed to return to Penrith
By Adam Pengilly
10 November 2018
The weeks Ivan Cleary had to coach a team against his son Nathan, they were the hardest. His stomach would be twisting and turning, asking himself how he could instruct his own players to be even more aggressive in an already aggressive game against his own blood?

"Straight up, I didn’t like it," Cleary tells Fairfax Media. "I found it really difficult. You feel self-conscious when you do a preview on the opposition and your son’s involved. I left it to the assistants in many respects. I’ll be quite frank, I hope I never have to do it again."

As it stands now, he won't.
But Cleary wants people to know his son is not the only reason he will walk back into Penrith and take charge of Panthers pre-season training this week, the NRL's coaching carousel having finally ground to a halt.

A publicly stated desire to one day work with his son is part of the reason, but not the only reason.

There's the squad in which he's had some role in almost every player's development. There's the $22 million academy and training facility he helped design, but only walked into for the first time last week. There's the local community his family still lives in.

But maybe those reasons pale in significance compared to the chance to finish what he started at the end of 2011. His old role is his new one, but he still doesn't feel completely at ease. Not yet.

"I’m not comfortable yet," says Cleary, his exit from the Tigers with two years remaining on his deal made official late last month. "It’s been an uncomfortable situation, but I take full responsibility for it.

"There was never really a timeframe on [what we wanted to achieve at Penrith] and it was one of the things that was so disappointing when I left; there was definitely unfinished business on my part. That vision is now coming to life."

From the moment he was informally approached by Panthers chairman Dave O'Neill only a month before this year's finals series about whether he had ever considered returning to Penrith, Cleary has largely kept his counsel.

In his own words, the question from O'Neill had been "completely out of the blue and never for one minute did I think [returning to Penrith] was a possibility". But deep down, he knew it would be an opportunity too good to refuse.

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It started a chain of events which led to Anthony Griffin's axing at Penrith with his side banging down the door of the top four, and just a few weeks out from the finals. Whispers the Panthers wanted Cleary back – at the same time Nathan was weighing up a rich extension at the club – turned into a roar.

Cleary was trying to nurse the Tigers into the finals for the first time since 2011. He'd spent almost two years championing the cause of being "on the bus", but had an opportunity to jump off himself when he least expected it.

One of the NRL's calmest men walked into a press conference almost a week after news of Penrith's intent to lure him back broke, shaking like an autumn leaf. He read from a prepared statement, claiming his intention was to see out the final two years of his Tigers deal. He took no questions on his future.
"I used the word misinformation in that statement, which obviously pissed a lot of people off in the media," Cleary says. "Not for one minute did I mean [to do that].

"But there were five or six different stories going around that just weren’t true. I wanted to clarify my position. At the time I never had a formal approach, there was no offer, I didn’t ask for a release. What I did do is I told the people that needed to know at the Tigers, including the team [about the situation straight away].

"It was an emotional time and I was dealing with it the best way I could, all the while trying to protect the team and the club in pursuit of the finals."
Over the course of a lengthy interview, Cleary can't stress enough how bad he feels about hurting people close to him in the past couple of months. He doesn't name names, but it's not hard to guess he's talking about the Tigers' top brass, including chair Marina Go and chief executive Justin Pascoe, "someone I definitely consider a friend".

"It’s probably more difficult for other people – and I’m responsible for that," Cleary says. "It hurts yourself when you hurt other people. That’s the best way I can explain it. [But] it’s one of those things that happens in your professional life and you get an opportunity and you have to go one way or the other.

"I wanted to get [Nathan] to the Tigers. One of the reasons was we wanted to work together, but I thought he’d be a really good addition to what that squad needed. All the while I’m thinking, 'if it [working together] doesn’t happen now it may never happen'.
"The thing that crosses your mind is, 'I hope he doesn’t feel like he has to come [to the Tigers] because if he doesn’t he’s letting me down'. I felt that he was probably always going to stay [at Penrith] and if he left it was going to be really, really hard for him."

Cleary has spoken to some Tigers fans in the past fortnight who insist they understand his decision and have wished him well. He knows others won't think the same way, having inked a five-year deal which ties him and Nathan down to the Panthers until the end of 2023.

The Tigers' playing group has equally had mixed reactions. The likes of Russell Packer, Ben Matulino, Josh Reynolds, Benji Marshall, Moses Mbye and Robbie Farah were all lured to the joint venture by Cleary. They'll now be coached by premiership winner Michael Maguire. Cleary insists the Tigers' future is bright with Maguire, both on and off the field.
"I had no thoughts of ever going anywhere from the Tigers," Cleary says.

"And I absolutely care about my reputation and I care if people think of me otherwise. I understand also, I’m responsible for this situation. Some people won’t see it this way, but I can look myself in the mirror and know that I’ve given the Tigers full disclosure through this whole journey. I’ve tried to consider everything to make sure this was done in the right way. That’s all I can do.

"If people see it the other way, I understand that too. That’s how I feel I’ve tried to operate, honestly and transparently. I get the decision I made will also upset some people and put people I care about in some pretty difficult and awkward situations – and I don’t feel good about that.
"But I suppose I’d just like to say, anything I did with the club I did it authentically, I believed everything I said and I never for one minute thought I’d be leaving but it’s just kind of how it happened. I think the future is really bright for the Tigers."

For once, Cleary is taking on a side that is premiership ready. Ironically, it may be the blue-chip club Phil Gould told him to chase for his next job when he sacked him three years ago.

It's not a patch-up, rebuild job he's done in the past at the Warriors, his first coming at the Panthers and Tigers – clubs he has dragged into grand finals, finals and in the Tigers' case, the brink of the top eight. They're a team ready to challenge for a title.

Nathan, who turns 21 on Wednesday, will play a big part of that. Ivan knows if the boat starts rocking at Penrith, there might be extra heat to bear on the family. Pressure?

"Not really," Cleary says. "There’s going to be some people out there that will still talk of nepotism, but the fact is it’s going to be a lot easier now than if he was first coming into the team."

The final piece of Cleary's conundrum was knowing he would be welcomed back at Penrith, by all of the staff. That includes Penrith's executive general manager Gould, who tapped Cleary on the shoulder after the 2015 season, citing he was "tired".

In the past few weeks, Cleary and Gould have talked. The contents of that conversation Cleary wants to remain private. They will talk some more over coming months. He insists as professionals they'll have "no problems" working with each other, finishing what they started seven years ago.

"There will be no dramas," Cleary says. "We’ve known each other a long time. I’d pretty much processed and dealt with [being sacked in 2015] anyway, but when I had the feeling everyone at the club wanted to welcome me back, then that was probably the last piece of the puzzle in terms of me processing. That’s a good feeling.

"Deep down, I know it’s the right decision. There was no other club I would have considered. I’m just glad to be back and trying to finish that business."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/it...ded-to-return-to-penrith-20181109-p50f2c.html
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
If we want to play with the big boys, why steal a coach with a win percentage of 50%, 44.9% and 41.9% at his past three clubs who can't coach attack from a team that hasn't made the finals in 7 years?

Can you ask your warriors mate if the warriors squad Ivan had(he actually built that squad himself so it’s a credit to him) was so talented anyone that can coach them to a gf, why did they go from a gf under Ivan in 2011 to the bottom four the next year under another coach?

Stop death riding the guy ffs you come up with rubbish anyway. Mentioning his winning percentage without context means exactly f**k all btw, Anthony Griffin has a better winning percentage than mostt coaches yet he’s not in demand is he? Ivan’s stints at the warriors and tigers were excellent considering what he had to work with, and he got a lot more out of a lot less at penrith than most coaches would imo, the squads he had in his first years here were terrible and he still took us on a good finals run in 2014.
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Can you ask your warriors mate if the warriors squad Ivan had(he actually built that squad himself so it’s a credit to him) was so talented anyone that can coach them to a gf, why did they go from a gf under Ivan in 2011 to the bottom four the next year under another coach?

Stop death riding the guy ffs you come up with rubbish anyway. Mentioning his winning percentage without context means exactly f**k all btw, Anthony Griffin has a better winning percentage than mostt coaches yet he’s not in demand is he? Ivan’s stints at the warriors and tigers were excellent considering what he had to work with, and he got a lot more out of a lot less at penrith than most coaches would imo, the squads he had in his first years here were terrible and he still took us on a good finals run in 2014.

What coaches get 5 years though? He is a middle of the road coach. 5 years is a huge call
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
What coaches get 5 years though? He is a middle of the road coach. 5 years is a huge call

I’m not defending the deal or how we went about it, I’m just arguing this revisionist history that Ivan hasn’t been a good coach at his previous clubs.

Ivan’s not perfect, we all know bout his attack but he’s a lot better than our previous coach and a lot of nrl coaches, Let’s see what happens I think he is more than capable of getting it done.
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
I’m not defending the deal or how we went about it, I’m just arguing this revisionist history that Ivan hasn’t been a good coach at his previous clubs.

I knew a time would come when just making the semis wouldn't be enough for hook. I didn't they would go back to another one without a proven record. Atleast this one looks like all are on the same page that is something

Des and Maguire being back lifts the level of coaching. Hook was about middle of the road. Ivan is too so interesting to see how it pans out
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,327
What coaches get 5 years though? He is a middle of the road coach. 5 years is a huge call
But we know that 5 year contract doesnt mean shit.

Ivan isnt the best coach in the world. But he tends to get the best out of what he has...which has historically been average at best for the most part.

Only year he could have been expected to do better was 2015. Every other year of his coaching career he has either met or exceeded what you would reasonably expect from his rosters.

His 2019 roster should bethe best he has ever had. Although we're only a few injuries to the wrong guys away from having an extremely inexperienced side... and our hooking options look poor.

Fortunately the halves and fullback are not issues for depth.

1. Edwards / DWZ
6. Maloney / May
7. Cleary / Luai

All good. While Egan / Katoa is promising but not yet reliable. Its actually our 3/4s and front row where depth (experienced depth atleast) gets thin quickly.

I wish Ivan got his hands on our 2016 roster. Insane depth and great top 17.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
But we know that 5 year contract doesnt mean shit.

Ivan isnt the best coach in the world. But he tends to get the best out of what he has...which has historically been average at best for the most part.

Only year he could have been expected to do better was 2015. Every other year of his coaching career he has either met or exceeded what you would reasonably expect from his rosters.

His 2019 roster should bethe best he has ever had. Although we're only a few injuries to the wrong guys away from having an extremely inexperienced side... and our hooking options look poor.

Fortunately the halves and fullback are not issues for depth.

1. Edwards / DWZ
6. Maloney / May
7. Cleary / Luai

All good. While Egan / Katoa is promising but not yet reliable. Its actually our 3/4s and front row where depth (experienced depth atleast) gets thin quickly.

I wish Ivan got his hands on our 2016 roster. Insane depth and great top 17.

We have a good top 17... I don't remember him having young guys that he needs to teach them stuff. Even when NZ made the GF they ran 6th...Can he have a team prepared as a top 4 all year? That is why it is a head scratcher. Lets be honest anyone can get our team in the top 8 it is the next step that is the issue.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,168
Can you ask your warriors mate if the warriors squad Ivan had(he actually built that squad himself so it’s a credit to him) was so talented anyone that can coach them to a gf, why did they go from a gf under Ivan in 2011 to the bottom four the next year under another coach?

Do you know who that coach was?
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
I knew a time would come when just making the semis wouldn't be enough for hook. I didn't they would go back to another one without a proven record. Atleast this one looks like all are on the same page that is something

Des and Maguire being back lifts the level of coaching. Hook was about middle of the road. Ivan is too so interesting to see how it pans out

Both Des and Macguire have shown they can win perms and both have shown they can get it very wrong, they both finished their last seasons in very disappointing ways. Des leaves clubs in horrible positions, didn’t manly hit up Jason Taylor before going to des?(they ar desperate) and Macguire ran his players into the ground. Both could be good or bad signings for their clubs.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
We have a good top 17... I don't remember him having young guys that he needs to teach them stuff. Even when NZ made the GF they ran 6th...Can he have a team prepared as a top 4 all year? That is why it is a head scratcher. Lets be honest anyone can get our team in the top 8 it is the next step that is the issue.

If he continues being able to get the players invested and performing at a high level we can achieve it easily and he's more inclined to work as a part of the organisation as a team member. I have confidence it can be a top 4 finish but can see it going the other way with injuries etc.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Do you know who that coach was?

McLennan, He was highly rated by nz fans before that season and I’m pretty sure he fits under the definition of ‘anyone’.

There are a lot of positives to Cleary's coaching that are being completely overlooked here, he gets his teams working hard and defending well, he has the ability to get more out of average players, we can go through his previous squads and point out the players. Isaac john played for NZ under Cleary, where is he playing now? Luke Brooks finished in the top 3 of the dallys m's this year. Shaun Johnson played his best footy as a rookie under Ivan. There are numerous examples of players playing their best under Ivan.
 
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billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,168
McLennan, He was highly rated by nz fans before that season and I’m pretty sure he fits under the definition of ‘anyone’.

There are a lot of positives to Cleary's coaching that are being completely overlooked here, he gets his teams working hard and defending well, he has the ability to get more out of average players, we can go through his previous squads and point out the players. Isaac john played for NZ under Cleary, where is he playing now? Luke Brooks finished in the top 3 of the dallys m's this year. Shaun Johnson played his best footy as a rookie under Ivan. There are numerous examples of players playing their best under Ivan.

McClennan is one of the worst NRL coaches there ever was.
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
I knew a time would come when just making the semis wouldn't be enough for hook.
At the time he was sacked we were 5th only on for and against (ie level with 4th in wins) having won the last 2 and with two also-rans next to play. As it turned out we would have had to win all of the last 4 games to make the top 4 but that wasn't known then. I don't think they sacked him on performance. I think they sacked him because his relationship with Gus had become completely war-like and Ciraldo being caught in the middle was wanting out. Griffin may well have felt he was now safe for the season, and expected to go at the end of the year anyway so felt no need to make any further effort to get along with the boss. It was the only way Gus could punish Hook, by denying him the opportunity to contest the finals. That is what I believe happened. Ivan Cleary was just a smokescreen.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Both Des and Macguire have shown they can win perms and both have shown they can get it very wrong, they both finished their last seasons in very disappointing ways. Des leaves clubs in horrible positions, didn’t manly hit up Jason Taylor before going to des?(they ar desperate) and Macguire ran his players into the ground. Both could be good or bad signings for their clubs.

Both of those guys shouldn't coach one place for too long. Seem to be a punish and players get sick of it.
 
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