2019 Discussion

[Abacus]

I'd agree with that. So if roster is fringe top 8. We are using TPA's and no cap space... Then surely we haven't managed the cap properly

Not necessarily. Plenty of clubs spend the cap and don't make the finals.

Difference between top 8 and top 4 can be 2 wins. Players playing to potential (i.e. not coming back from injuries, etc) can nab 2 wins easily.

Yes, we've started poorly and are unfit but that may change as the season goes on. Last year we were super-fit early but burned out by end of season.

 

[TheFrog]

Seems like Roosters 2016. They shed RTS, Maloney and Jennings, replaced them from the lower grades (Latrell Mitchell was one, Connor Watson another, the third was Jaden Nikorima who didn't last long) and went from minor premiers to second last. I've always contended that the $2m+ saved went towards front and backloaded contracts, because they were back to 2nd in 2017. Could this be what Gus has been up to as well?

 

[age.s]

In your opinion is this roster better than last year?

For me it's not. There was glaring holes overlooked more than likely because like us fans here Gus and co have overhyped the juniors.

Assuming we include May, I'd say about the same. Merrin was ordinary last year and isn't a huge loss for mine. Losing Peachey sucks. He's irreplaceable, especially if we get hit hard by injuries. I rate May though and think he would have made a good fist of the utility role. CHN is a good player but hardly irreplaceable. On the flip side, Sele appears to be a good pickup. Add in that much our roster is young and should be improving with an extra full season under their belts. I think it comes out as a wash.

I certainly don't think there are glaring holes in the roster (minor ones at best). It just looks like that because we're woefully underdone.

As an aside, can you imagine Peachey and Merrin under Cleary's fitness regime? They'd be moving like slugs out there.

 

[age.s]

We are down 4 quality first graders. A prop, a hooker, a utility and a bench forward, who's now starting elsewhere. None of them have been adequately replaced. In addition we have three players returning from traumatic injuries who haven't fully recovered.

The prop should be RCG. The utility should be May. We signed three bench forwards in the offseason, one of whom looks very good.

Hooker is arguable. Personally I think Katoa was good enough in 2018 to warrant taking a punt and am coming around on the idea of Egan showing considerable promise. Biggest issue is that neither can play 80 minutes so we lose a bench spot.

 

[franklin2323]

Assuming we include May, I'd say about the same. Merrin was ordinary last year and isn't a huge loss for mine. Losing Peachey sucks. He's irreplaceable, especially if we get hit hard by injuries. I rate May though and think he would have made a good fist of the utility role. CHN is a good player but hardly irreplaceable. On the flip side, Sele appears to be a good pickup. Add in that much our roster is young and should be improving with an extra full season under their belts. I think it comes out as a wash.

I certainly don't think there are glaring holes in the roster (minor ones at best). It just looks like that because we're woefully underdone.

As an aside, can you imagine Peachey and Merrin under Cleary's fitness regime? They'd be moving like slugs out there.

All vali points. Take CHN for example he could play in several positions. I rate Sele and Martin but both are pretty much middles. Tyrone Phillips was average but had speed.

Everyone knows I don't rate Ivan but are we looking slow and unfit from him or from the players? There is no real speed out there. I think it is a bit of both. Put a fast winger that can catch out there and we look a different team. Same too with hooker and FB

 

[age.s]

Everyone knows I don't rate Ivan but are we looking slow and unfit from him or from the players?

Speed you could put down to the roster, but fitness? No way. Last year's team had to be one of the fittest I've ever seen. Doing what we did in the final 20 so consistently was truly extraordinary. We were far from the complete package and went within a whisker of the prelim on the back of it. It disappearing is 100% on Ivan.

 

[noforwardpass]

Speed you could put down to the roster, but fitness? No way. Last year's team had to be one of the fittest I've ever seen. Doing what we did in the final 20 so consistently was truly extraordinary. We were far from the complete package and went within a whisker of the prelim on the back of it. It disappearing is 100% on Ivan.

I've been told last year's head trainer was hated by the players as he made them work hard. This year's head trainer is more the type who wants to be liked by the players so they don't have to work as hard. On field seems to back this up.

 

[franklin2323]

Speed you could put down to the roster, but fitness? No way. Last year's team had to be one of the fittest I've ever seen. Doing what we did in the final 20 so consistently was truly extraordinary. We were far from the complete package and went within a whisker of the prelim on the back of it. It disappearing is 100% on Ivan.

75% of what we did well last year was Kikau/Blake but overall had the same issues

 

[tripster]

Speed you could put down to the roster, but fitness? No way. Last year's team had to be one of the fittest I've ever seen. Doing what we did in the final 20 so consistently was truly extraordinary. We were far from the complete package and went within a whisker of the prelim on the back of it. It disappearing is 100% on Ivan.

I rewatched last year’s final against the Warriors this evening. The difference in the energy level of our team is dramatic. I know it was a final and we were fired up, but it is like watching a different team.

 

[Fangs]

Round 12: Manly (No Origin Players)
Origin 1
Round 13: Roosters (Origin back up)
Round 14: Rabbits
Origin 2 (Bye round all clubs)
Round 15: Warriors
Round 16: Bye (Yay)
Origin 3
Round 17: Titans (Origin back up)

Optimistic me thinks we can really power on during the Origin period.

I think Nathan Cleary is a certainty for NSW. Maloney/RCG won't be picked. Maloney was at his best with Cleary out of the picture last year. I'm looking forward to seeing his combination with Luai.

No Cherry-Evans or Trbojevic brothers for Manly (Tom might play club but with his dodgy hammy). Roosters will have heavy representation and will have to back up.

 

[Kilkenny]

On the evidence of the first six rounds even the most optimistic of supporters may have difficulty in seeing any bounce in form during origin period.

Even allowing for us being 14 points ahead of the Sharks on two periods of the game we are so of the pace in so many areas it is somewhat depressing.

We could easily be 0-6, could have been 3-3 but for what happened on Thursday just gone but it all masks some serious issues which has just been exasperated by the events of this week.

I am normally more optimistic than pessimistic but frankly on the evidence in the first six rounds there is nothing that I have seen to suggest we can make the top eight this season.

We can only hope the likes of Stephen Chrichton, Spencer Lenui, Shawn Blore, Brian Too, Dane Laurie, Billy Burns, Brayden McGrady and Dean Blore turn out to be superstars and or very good first graders otherwise because we need a fresh injection in the next year or two to reinvigorate our roster.

 

[Pomoz]

On the evidence of the first six rounds even the most optimistic of supporters may have difficulty in seeing any bounce in form during origin period.

Even allowing for us being 14 points ahead of the Sharks on two periods of the game we are so of the pace in so many areas it is somewhat depressing.

We could easily be 0-6, could have been 3-3 but for what happened on Thursday just gone but it all masks some serious issues which has just been exasperated by the events of this week.

I am normally more optimistic than pessimistic but frankly on the evidence in the first six rounds there is nothing that I have seen to suggest we can make the top eight this season.

We can only hope the likes of Stephen Chrichton, Spencer Lenui, Shawn Blore, Brian Too, Dane Laurie, Billy Burns, Brayden McGrady and Dean Blore turn out to be superstars and or very good first graders otherwise because we need a fresh injection in the next year or two to reinvigorate our roster.

All that has changed since last year is the coach and fitness staff. We lost Peachey, Merrin and CHN. Does that have such a huge impact?

 

[Kilkenny]

All that has changed since last year is the coach and fitness staff. We lost Peachey, Merrin and CHN. Does that have such a huge impact?

I wouldn’t have thought so.

We have quite a few issues I tend to think however our biggest issue is our front row stocks. Tamou has been our best but not anywhere near the level of the better front rowers in the game. We all know the front row/ forwards as a whole lay the platform but other than JFH we have been pretty average. On form it’s very hard to see us getting over the Souths pack and that is where the game will be decided.

 

[Pomoz]

I wouldn’t have thought so.

We have quite a few issues I tend to think however our biggest issue is our front row stocks. Tamou has been our best but not anywhere near the level of the better front rowers in the game. We all know the front row/ forwards as a whole lay the platform but other than JFH we have been pretty average. On form it’s very hard to see us getting over the Souths pack and that is where the game will be decided.

Since you agree, the logical conclusion is that Cleary's coaching has had a very negative impact on the team.It is the same team as last year give or take a few players. The coach and fitness staff are what has been changed. Result? A bunch of knackerbags getting flogged.

The only good thing about fitness is, playing matches will increase fitness, so they should eventually catch up with the rest of the NRL.

 

[CCJohnC]

Cleary inherited this team and no doubt he will make changes to the roster over a period when he is able to.

 

[mxlegend99]

Since you agree, the logical conclusion is that Cleary's coaching has had a very negative impact on the team.It is the same team as last year give or take a few players. The coach and fitness staff are what has been changed. Result? A bunch of knackerbags getting flogged.

The only good thing about fitness is, playing matches will increase fitness, so they should eventually catch up with the rest of the NRL.

Last year we had access to and used:

Tyrone Peachey
Trent Merrin
Corey Harawira-Naera
Christian Crichton
Tyrone Phillips
Tyrone May
Peter Wallace

Pretty sure all within the first 6 rounds too. Even the bad guys on that list are better options than the likes of Fuimaono and Winterstein. Sele is the only decent addition to our team.

6x top 30 players is not a tiny change to a roster. Nor is having a guaranteed top 17 player banned until further notice

 

[MrBlack]

I dont think Maloney combines well with Cleary. Dont know what it is, maybe they just dont get on?

For the sake of our season i would move Cleary to 9 and bring in Luai. Just for the rest of this year then move Maloney on and return Cleary to half.

Cleary can still kick, run etc from 9 and occasionaly stand at half to run plays (it works for Smith in Melbourne).

Our spine should be

DWZ
Maloney
Luai
Cleary

Question is, will Cleary snr have the balls for such a shake up of the spine?

 

[mxlegend99]

I dont think Maloney combines well with Cleary. Dont know what it is, maybe they just dont get on?

For the sake of our season i would move Cleary to 9 and bring in Luai. Just for the rest of this year then move Maloney on and return Cleary to half.

Cleary can still kick, run etc from 9 and occasionaly stand at half to run plays (it works for Smith in Melbourne).

Our spine should be

DWZ
Maloney
Luai
Cleary

Question is, will Cleary snr have the balls for such a shake up of the spine?

I think Cleary and Jimmy are coming off their best game together in 12 months. Not sure now is the time to tinker with them.

Egan's also had a reasonable game. Not great. But reasonable.

We are on fullback #3 and hooker #2 without injuries forcing changes.

 

[Bodhi]

Round 12: Manly (No Origin Players)
Origin 1
Round 13: Roosters (Origin back up)
Round 14: Rabbits
Origin 2 (Bye round all clubs)
Round 15: Warriors
Round 16: Bye (Yay)
Origin 3
Round 17: Titans (Origin back up)

Optimistic me thinks we can really power on during the Origin period.

I think Nathan Cleary is a certainty for NSW. Maloney/RCG won't be picked. Maloney was at his best with Cleary out of the picture last year. I'm looking forward to seeing his combination with Luai.

No Cherry-Evans or Trbojevic brothers for Manly (Tom might play club but with his dodgy hammy). Roosters will have heavy representation and will have to back up.

It would be a crime to not make the 8 (some would argue even that would be a fail, all things being equal). It's a relatively easy draw and if we can go on a run, top 4 is definitely achievable.

 

[franklin2323]

Last year we just as bad. fitness and individuals standing up got us through. Atleast one of those isn't possible this year