What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2019 Top 30

martielang

Bench
Messages
3,499
Can see what Franklin is saying & makes good points but I think we’ve just gone all in on our juniors & hoping a couple of them become elite players sooner rather than later, to offset the inexperience.

We’ve come this far on the back of that, I think it’s too late to change direction now without turfing half our squad. It’s a massive risk but we’re too far down the juniors rabbit hole to try anything else imo. I personally don’t see another older guy making a huge difference.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,332
That has nothing to do with it. If it did, he would have tried that at the Roosters but he built a dynasty there with a different approach. Albeit, he did improve their junior programme.

At the Panthers he studied the Broncos and looked at their strategy for success. He saw that their aim was to have 80% juniors and he believed that since they are the most successful club in the NRL, it was a strategy worth emulating.

I believe 80% is an aspirational goal, but will be flexed as and when required. The main thing is it gets the club focused on its junior development pathways. It makes it clear we are a development club. This has to be our primary source of players. Why?

Well, since we have one of the largest junior bases, which is a source of competitive advantage, it would be strange not to use the resource. Secondly, we are not a glamour club. Our location is not attractive to 90% of players, we don't have a long and storied history and we can't offer lots of TPA's to sweeten the pot.

All of the strategies espoused on here assume that getting players is just a simple matter of us deciding to sign some more players and focus less on the juniors. And yet we went out for Thurston with one of the most famous, influential and persuasive men in rugby league doing the negotiations and we come up short. The same happened with Carney. You must ask the question why? Our money is as good as anybody else's, but we don't have the success, the glamour, the location or TPA's to get the best players to want to come here. I accept that we can get good players like Merrin and Tamou, but not superstars.

I loved the 2003 team but it was one Swallow and that doesn't make a summer. Subsequent to that we were barely competitive for ten years, picking up a wooden spoon and making the semi's twice. Prior to that and post our 91 premiership, we were uncompetitive for the best part of 11 years reaching the dizzy heights of fifth on two occasions. We were below average. When you consider the resources at our disposal it was criminal mismanagement of the club.

Now we have success at every grade, make the semis for 4 out of 5 years and the club is built mainly from juniors developed within. We think we should abandon that and do something different because we haven't won a premiership yet.......

Give me strength. How soon we forget the years of mediocrity and failure at this club. I would rather we keep doing what we are doing, instead of 2 premierships every 40 years, spaced between failure, irrelevance and wooden spoons.

Using our old strategy of waiting until all the moons align and we throw a double six, the next premiership should be about 2023.....
Who's saying we should abandon our juniors?

We're saying we shouldnt be wasting salary cap by not having minimum wage players and that for every 3 or 4 experienced players we lose we could maybe... just maybe add one along with juniors. Rather then constantly rebuilding and having less experience each year.

Juniors should always be the priority. But we should be looking at identifying areas we cant cover from within and doing something about it.

We didnt miss out on Carney and Thurston becsuse they were superstars. We missed out because it's a lot harder go attract a happy player from another club then it is to keep one at your club. Those guys were priorities for their clubs and we were at a disadvantage as a result. If a player likes his club and the club wants the player it takes a serious amount of cash to get them. Even then its no guarantee.

Mez was told to look elsewhere basically because Dragons didn't think he was worth what he wanted. While Tamou wanted to move back to Sydney for personal reasons. They genuinely hit the market. We got them. Sadly.

We got Maloney. He's a superstar. The second there's disharmony between a player and his club we're as good a chance as any to get them. If we're the highest bidder the player is going to be ours. Or playing at Broncos/Roosters for minimum wage while we scratch our heads as to why they threw away $500k for us. We can get the superstars if they're genuinely available.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Are these teams generally what we are expecting rnd 1 (not taking into account trial form, injuries or departures)

NRL

1. Edwards
2. DWZ
3. Whare
4. Blake
5. Mansour
6. Maloney
7. Cleary
8. RCG
9. Katoa
10. Tamou
11. Yeo
12. Kikau
13. JFH

14. Luai
15. Hetherington
16. Leota
17. Merrin

INTRUST
1. Aekins
2. Tuisese
3. Fuimaono
4. MWZ
5. Too
6. Blore
7. Coleman
8. Pua
9. Egan
10. Grant
11. Cartwright
12. Ellis
13. May

14. Blore
15. Martin
16. Burns
17. Lui Toso

I think that starting NRL team is set. Just the make up of the bench to be sorted
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Who's saying we should abandon our juniors?

We're saying we shouldnt be wasting salary cap by not having minimum wage players and that for every 3 or 4 experienced players we lose we could maybe... just maybe add one along with juniors. Rather then constantly rebuilding and having less experience each year.

Juniors should always be the priority. But we should be looking at identifying areas we cant cover from within and doing something about it.

We didnt miss out on Carney and Thurston becsuse they were superstars. We missed out because it's a lot harder go attract a happy player from another club then it is to keep one at your club. Those guys were priorities for their clubs and we were at a disadvantage as a result. If a player likes his club and the club wants the player it takes a serious amount of cash to get them. Even then its no guarantee.

Mez was told to look elsewhere basically because Dragons didn't think he was worth what he wanted. While Tamou wanted to move back to Sydney for personal reasons. They genuinely hit the market. We got them. Sadly.

We got Maloney. He's a superstar. The second there's disharmony between a player and his club we're as good a chance as any to get them. If we're the highest bidder the player is going to be ours. Or playing at Broncos/Roosters for minimum wage while we scratch our heads as to why they threw away $500k for us. We can get the superstars if they're genuinely available.

Exactly we will always need juniors but ATM we need a few NRL ready guys.

We had 4 guys in origin. 2 NZ test players. They are our superstars now. We can afford to be more patient with the 17 or 18 year old that are the next batch.

Those guys offer not a great deal to our squad now. Development squad and get some guys that can fix us for 2019
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Can see what Franklin is saying & makes good points but I think we’ve just gone all in on our juniors & hoping a couple of them become elite players sooner rather than later, to offset the inexperience.

We’ve come this far on the back of that, I think it’s too late to change direction now without turfing half our squad. It’s a massive risk but we’re too far down the juniors rabbit hole to try anything else imo. I personally don’t see another older guy making a huge difference.

We have 29 guys. 28 if you count Merrin as gone. Does anyone think Pua or Cartwright will play regular FG here? Given who is in front I don't. So that would make 4 spots we can go and get guys like Baptise, Fensom etc. good solid depth guys to use if injuries hit
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,169
Are these teams generally what we are expecting rnd 1 (not taking into account trial form, injuries or departures)

NRL

1. Edwards
2. DWZ
3. Whare
4. Blake
5. Mansour
6. Maloney
7. Cleary
8. RCG
9. Katoa
10. Tamou
11. Yeo
12. Kikau
13. JFH

14. Luai
15. Hetherington
16. Leota
17. Merrin

That bench is very weak, IMO, and will be even worse once Merrin leaves. Hetherington has done nothing to deserve a starting 17 spot.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
It's pretty simple. Release merrin. Sign a good forward like TPOW or Klemmer and put someone on minimum wage in the last roster spot. If we did minimum wage we'd easily have the cash looking at that top 29.
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
20k x 10 = 200k

200k would fix some depth holes.
Someone should ask Gus what advantage is gained by paying over the minimum. There must be one or he wouldn't do it. You're increasing your bottom third by one or two while reducing your middle third.

I would ask but Gus doesn't seem to answer my polite enquiries.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,128
It's pretty simple. Release merrin. Sign a good forward like TPOW or Klemmer and put someone on minimum wage in the last roster spot. If we did minimum wage we'd easily have the cash looking at that top 29.
Not sure Mez's money frees up enough for either of those guys.

I'd be trying for something like Tagataese, Eastwood & Matthew Wright. Good squad fillers that are without a contract.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Someone should ask Gus what advantage is gained by paying over the minimum. There must be one or he wouldn't do it. You're increasing your bottom third by one or two while reducing your middle third.

I would ask but Gus doesn't seem to answer my polite enquiries.

Anyone that doesn't agree with Gus gets knee capped. The middle third of the squad is the issue and has been for a few seasons
 
Last edited:

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,128
We have 29 guys. 28 if you count Merrin as gone. Does anyone think Pua or Cartwright will play regular FG here? Given who is in front I don't. So that would make 4 spots we can go and get guys like Baptise, Fensom etc. good solid depth guys to use if injuries hit
Baptiste has signed with the Cows & Fensom (IMO) has been sub-NRL standard for a while now.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Baptiste has signed with the Cows & Fensom (IMO) has been sub-NRL standard for a while now.

Tagatese and Jason Clark would be the 2 I'd get to fill out the squad. Neither would be in my top 17 but both could do a job in a big game. Hetherington can't just yet it's where we lack
 

Karnivayne

Juniors
Messages
294
That bench is very weak, IMO, and will be even worse once Merrin leaves. Hetherington has done nothing to deserve a starting 17 spot.

I dont disagree, starting side looks set except i would be looking at a front rower to move Tamou to the bench and a hooker to replace Katoa. If we upgrade those two positions i would say that we are a top 4 team, if we run out with those 2 we are a 3-6 team at best.

Leota deserves a spot in the 17, Merrin too if he stays. The other 2 bench positions there are 10 players that are borderline that would be fighting it out.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,332
I dont disagree, starting side looks set except i would be looking at a front rower to move Tamou to the bench and a hooker to replace Katoa. If we upgrade those two positions i would say that we are a top 4 team, if we run out with those 2 we are a 3-6 team at best.

Leota deserves a spot in the 17, Merrin too if he stays. The other 2 bench positions there are 10 players that are borderline that would be fighting it out.
On what we've got. Our best is without doubt RCG, Tamou, Mez and Leota.

But that's the issue. 3 of those guys are now on elite money for their rep experience and aside from RCG in 2017 and Mez in 2016 we havent gotten that sort of form out of them.

Its a bit sad that of all positions we probably have more invested in elite talent at prop then other positions and are getting the worst return for that money. Hooker is our other issue but we dont have huge money tied up in underperformers atleast.

If they play at their best we have the best front row in the comp. But that's unrealistic to expect.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,877
On what we've got. Our best is without doubt RCG, Tamou, Mez and Leota.

But that's the issue. 3 of those guys are now on elite money for their rep experience and aside from RCG in 2017 and Mez in 2016 we havent gotten that sort of form out of them.

Its a bit sad that of all positions we probably have more invested in elite talent at prop then other positions and are getting the worst return for that money. Hooker is our other issue but we dont have huge money tied up in underperformers atleast.

If they play at their best we have the best front row in the comp. But that's unrealistic to expect.

It will be interesting to see how they perform under Ivan Cleary. While it still appears probable Merrin may leave I would have liked to have seen how he performed with Ivan as coach. I only say that because I think Hook was one of the reasons for Merrin's drop in form as they clearly didn't get on.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,332
It will be interesting to see how they perform under Ivan Cleary. While it still appears probable Merrin may leave I would have liked to have seen how he performed with Ivan as coach. I only say that because I think Hook was one of the reasons for Merrin's drop in form as they clearly didn't get on.
Cleary was our coach when he signed on. Never got to play for him. So if he does maybe we will see his best again.

Imagine our pack if Cleary gets our biggest named players earning their salary. I feel like its impossible to see. But if it did happen we could easily gobeyond week 3 of finals.

Our packs before he left were pretty average.
 

Matthew Ellis

Juniors
Messages
482
Are these teams generally what we are expecting rnd 1 (not taking into account trial form, injuries or departures)

NRL

1. Edwards
2. DWZ
3. Whare
4. Blake
5. Mansour
6. Maloney
7. Cleary
8. RCG
9. Katoa
10. Tamou
11. Yeo
12. Kikau
13. JFH

14. Luai
15. Hetherington
16. Leota
17. Merrin

INTRUST
1. Aekins
2. Tuisese
3. Fuimaono
4. MWZ
5. Too
6. Blore
7. Coleman
8. Pua
9. Egan
10. Grant
11. Cartwright
12. Ellis
13. May
14. Blore
15. Martin
16. Burns
17. Lui Toso
I'm almost sure Mkendary will be there by round one, we're probably waiting until the season is about to start on the off chance he gets injured in the pre season.
Dunn what it'll be but imo
1.Edwards
2. DWZ
3. Whare
4. Blake
5. Mansauce
6. Cleary
7. Maloney
8. RCG
9. Wayde Egan
10. JFH
11. Yeo
12. Kikau
13. Trent Merrin
14. Sam Mkendary
15. Tamou
16. Moses Leota
17. Tyrell Fuimaono
It's hard to know what's the best NSW cup team because we don't know which players are still eligible for u/20's. So I'm going to assume Brian Too, Billy Burns, Hopgood, Mitch Kenny, Mitch Revell etc are eligible for the u/20's.
NSW Cup
1. Aekins
2. Phillips
3. Jed Cartwright
4. Ratu
5. MZW
6. Blore
7. Luai
8. Grant
9. Sione Katoa
10. Liam Martin
11. Tyrone May
12. Kaide Ellis
13. Nick Lui-Toso
14. Hetherington
15. Andy Saunders
16. Paea Pua
17. Coleman
 
Last edited:

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
It will be interesting to see how they perform under Ivan Cleary. While it still appears probable Merrin may leave I would have liked to have seen how he performed with Ivan as coach. I only say that because I think Hook was one of the reasons for Merrin's drop in form as they clearly didn't get on.

Did he play a good game After Hook went? Maybe it was the opposite he liked Hook
 

Latest posts

Top