2020 season

[OldPanther]

Sorry I didn’t accept your explanation as gospel.

If Cleary can’t handle a dominant personality he’s never going to make it as a top shelf half.

I'm not even talking about accepting what I'm saying. I'm talking about human nature and real world, thought out explanations and it comes back to "he's touched the ball heaps". A 21 year old half in the team with a mid 30s decade experienced half who is the most dominant personality in the game even over coaches like Bellamy is a no contest.

Do I think he'd be a better or good 6? Yes I actually do. I think his style would be very, very good there.

Nah, I get it mate - Sorry I was more just being an idiot in my last post - Smart arse by nature...

But, I'm willing to give him a little more time - I am aware he's had a decent go of it, but I think @OldPanther might be right on this one, and he'll come out of his shell now that it is actually "his" team.

If he's still falling back to the same old next season, I'll get us both matching #MoveCleary t-shirts

You can count me in. I've said before I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong. I haven't just made up my opinion from nothing though.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I'm not even talking about accepting what I'm saying. I'm talking about human nature and real world, thought out explanations and it comes back to "he's touched the ball heaps". A 21 year old half in the team with a mid 30s decade experienced half who is the most dominant personality in the game even over coaches like Bellamy is a no contest.

Do I think he'd be a better or good 6? Yes I actually do. I think his style would be very, very good there.



You can count me in. I've said before I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong. I haven't just made up my opinion from nothing though.

The footy field isn’t the real world, it’s a unique team environment.

I accept that it’s posisble a dominant personality in the team may have impeded his play, but I also recognise that someone who would be flustered by that dominant player is probably never going to reach any great heights. On the footy field that’s a mental weakness.

What happens if another dominant personality comes along? He goes back into a shell? Get the man a sports psychologist if that’s the case.

 

[ACTPanthers]

The footy field isn’t the real world, it’s a unique team environment.

I accept that it’s posisble a dominant personality in the team may have impeded his play, but I also recognise that someone who would be flustered by that dominant player is probably never going to reach any great heights. On the footy field that’s a mental weakness.

What happens if another dominant personality comes along? He goes back into a shell? Get the man a sports psychologist if that’s the case.

I don't think he gets "flustered" as such, more just takes a back seat - I honestly don't think it's going to be much of a problem with other dominant personalities, as he'll have a lot of time with it being his team, he could then evolve into a dominant player himself...

 

[herbert henry1908]

The way I see it it’s not his mental game holding him back anyway. In the great games he’s had for us it’s clear which part of his game is a massive strength, and that’s running. He’s didn’t all of a sudden become a deft passer of the ball when Maloney wasn’t there. He doesn’t have the soft hands of a half with a passing game.

He’s also admitted himself he’s never put on many try assists in the lower grades. So it puzzles me even more the idea it would be a dominant Maloney stopping this from happening.

 

[OldPanther]

The footy field isn’t the real world, it’s a unique team environment.

I accept that it’s posisble a dominant personality in the team may have impeded his play, but I also recognise that someone who would be flustered by that dominant player is probably never going to reach any great heights. On the footy field that’s a mental weakness.

What happens if another dominant personality comes along? He goes back into a shell? Get the man a sports psychologist if that’s the case.

I think it is like the real world. You see it in specialised fields all the time. It's how we're built.

He's 21 which is a baby in terms of professional rugby league. We are told constantly halves don't peak until 25+. If by then with the experience he still can't I'll be asking for a new 7 myself. Even next year I'm predicting he'll be better because we'll have some talkers or people with better skills at something(e.g. ball playing) etc. But nothing like Maloney. Look at the fact clubs don't keep him. He is a very unique entity in the game.

 

[OldPanther]

I don't think he gets "flustered" as such, more just takes a back seat - I honestly don't think it's going to be much of a problem with other dominant personalities, as he'll have a lot of time with it being his team, he could then evolve into a dominant player himself...

Exactly. It's a lot different when he's had a year or 2 being top dog and in his mid 20s.

 

[OldPanther]

The way I see it it’s not his mental game holding him back anyway. In the great games he’s had for us it’s clear which part of his game is a massive strength, and that’s running. He’s didn’t all of a sudden become a deft passer of the ball when Maloney wasn’t there. He doesn’t have the soft hands of a half with a passing game.

He’s also admitted himself he’s never put on many try assists in the lower grades. So it puzzles me even more the idea it would be a dominant Maloney stopping this from happening.

I'm not saying he'll become Joey levels of ball playing. Though I do think his running game and some good structures as a team will help his passing a lot.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I think it is like the real world. You see it in specialised fields all the time. It's how we're built.

He's 21 which is a baby in terms of professional rugby league. We are told constantly halves don't peak until 25+. If by then with the experience he still can't I'll be asking for a new 7 myself. Even next year I'm predicting he'll be better because we'll have some talkers or people with better skills at something(e.g. ball playing) etc. But nothing like Maloney. Look at the fact clubs don't keep him. He is a very unique entity in the game.

Wait, you now think we should wait 4 more years to make a definitive call on his game? That’s almost 200 games!

As I say, I don’t see it as a dominance issue anyway, it’s a skill set issue. He doesn’t have the hands of a passing half. You can’t become a top shelf half without that.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I'm not saying he'll become Joey levels of ball playing. Though I do think his running game and some good structures as a team will help his passing a lot.

Forget Johns, he won’t have the passing of Ben Hunt or DCE. He just doesn’t have the soft hands & vision.

We’re trying to fit a square peg through a round hole.

 

[OldPanther]

Wait, you now think we should wait 4 more years to make a definitive call on his game? That’s almost 200 games!

As I say, I don’t see it as a dominance issue anyway, it’s a skill set issue. He doesn’t have the hands of a passing half. You can’t become a top shelf half without that.

I've said countless times I'm happy to judge on next year and say I'm wrong. I think that's reasonable.

Not every half is going to be elite at everything. At first receiver all he has to do is engage those first 3 defenders and get our better ball players good ball at second receiver to distribute to the backline when the gaps appear. This style suits his strengths and weaknesses perfectly as the player who has better natural vision and passing can hit the passes that are required like cutting out to the winger etc.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I've said countless times I'm happy to judge on next year and say I'm wrong. I think that's reasonable.

Not every half is going to be elite at everything. At first receiver all he has to do is engage those first 3 defenders and get our better ball players good ball at second receiver to distribute to the backline when the gaps appear. This style suits his strengths and weaknesses perfectly as the player who has better natural vision and passing can hit the passes that are required like cutting out to the winger etc.

I’m responding to the idea he’s going to be the best half in the comp in a year or two. That’s why I weighed in today.

You’re not going to be the best half without a great passing game.

He’s a perfectly serviceable 7, but without a very good 5/8 we aren’t going to score many points.

 

[OldPanther]

I’m responding to the idea he’s going to be the best half in the comp in a year or two. That’s why I weighed in today.

You’re not going to be the best half without a great passing game.

He’s a perfectly serviceable 7, but without a very good 5/8 we aren’t going to score many points.

Well I haven't seen anyone say he'll be the best 7 in the comp. I certainly don't believe so.

As for points without a 6 that is every team. Unless both halves can contribute with different skills you are doomed.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Well I haven't seen anyone say he'll be the best 7 in the comp. I certainly don't believe so.

As for points without a 6 that is every team. Unless both halves can contribute with different skills you are doomed.

You liked a post that said pretty much that.

 

[OldPanther]

You liked a post that said pretty much that.

View attachment 32907

Well I don't agree with the part of the comment that is saying that. I totally forgot they even said it. That comme t is pretty extreme on the spectrum of what we are discussing. I agree with the concept that we will see a better version of him going forward.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Well I don't agree with the part of the comment that is saying that. I totally forgot they even said it. That comme t is pretty extreme on the spectrum of what we are discussing. I agree with the concept that we will see a better version of him going forward.

I actually think there’s quite a lot of people that still expect him to be a superstar. Him being selected for origin has played into that, and his pay packet.

 

[OldPanther]

I actually think there’s quite a lot of people that still expect him to be a superstar. Him being selected for origin has played into that, and his pay packet.

I can understand that effecting people's view. Facebook particularly has taught me some people don't analyse things things and just listen to what they're told.

 

[franklin2323]

Cleary isn’t the centre of our attack, Maloney is.

He isn’t better value this season, maybe he will be next season when Nathan’s new deal kicks in, maybe. If Nathan can continue his form over the back end of the season into next year I really doubt Sezer will be better value even with the big deal.

So why has Cleary had more ave possession then Maloney? Wouldn't we use Maloney more in that case?

The good form he showed in 2 or the last 6 games

 

[herbert henry1908]

So why has Cleary had more ave possession then Maloney? Wouldn't we use Maloney more in that case?

The good form he showed in 2 or the last 6 games

Daz posted some stats that showed Cleary had 50% more possession in the final 20m. That says he was the focus, not Maloney.

Where did we struggle to score points from? In the final 20.

People don’t want to put 2 & 2 together. There’s a fair chance our attack gets even worse next year.




The mistake the team made was not making Maloney the on the ball half, we would’ve been a better team with the more touches he had.

 

[franklin2323]

I actually think there’s quite a lot of people that still expect him to be a superstar. Him being selected for origin has played into that, and his pay packet.

He will never be a star which is fine just needs to get less predictable and let other create

 

[betcats]

Daz posted some stats that showed Cleary had 50% more possession in the final 20m. That says he was the focus, not Maloney.

Where did we struggle to score points from? In the final 20.

People don’t want to put 2 & 2 together. There’s a fair chance our attack gets even worse next year.




The mistake the team made was not making Maloney the on the ball half, we would’ve been a better team with the more touches he had.

Half those possessions could be cleary passing to a prop for hitup it doesn't show anything, 7s handle the ball more doing the organising in the early plays, Maloney would of got the ball from cleary a lot as well.