Discussion in 'Penrith Panthers' started by franklin2323, May 17, 2019.
Same with Nathan Brown. A personal friend of a certain DT journo.
I rate him much higher than Cleary. He has won a grand final and been to four as a coach. He has taken on the Eels when they were a basket case and started the rebuild process, which included making hard decisions about who to keep and who to sack. He has coached NSW to a winning series and he has coached Australia.
Cleary really isn't in the same league with a single gf appearance and 47% winning percentage and his best winning percentage is 59% at the Warriors, 62% at the Panthers. Stuart has managed 78% at the Roosters, 72% at the Sharks, 70% at the Raiders.
When you look at Cleary's record in the harsh light of day, you just wonder how on earth we went after him and gave him a five year deal. WHY????????????
Griffins % looks good to and when you break it down you see the truth.
Same with Ricky since Fittler retired in 2005 he has a very ordinary record. Won more spoons than Cleary and the same amount of GF's too.
I agree Ivan is average coach but he hasn't had a superstar player to lift his win % up either
Both I'd have in the bottom few current coaches
Of all the things with Cleary, a five year deal is the most insane. Bringing him back is one thing, doubling down with an extended deal right after you had to sack another coach & pay him out is bat shit crazy.
I’d go further and say it’s negligent management. People should be sacked over it.
Dont forget Ricky's % at parra
He inherited a team literally anyone could win with.... every season since has proven he is pretty average. Nearly any coach would have taken that side to the grand final and won.
His actual win percentages over his time at each club:
Roosters - 60%
Sharks - 41.8%
Eels - 20.8%
Raiders - 49.3%
Take away the premiership side he was gifted at the Roosters and his career would be damn near identical to Ivan if not worse.
His 1st year after Fittler retired. Roosters finished 15th.
Ivan hasn't had a spoon so post Fittler Ricky is worse for that reason
Ricky>Cleary if he wins it on Sunday.
When you try ranking the coaches 1 to 16 you realise just how bad most of them are. Not a lot of great coaches in the NRL and I don't see much competition for spots either.
Quiet an impressive season for Ricky. Hard to see how he took Raiders to second in 2016. Missed the top 8 the past 2 years and now has them in a grand final.
But not too different from Brad Arthur. Top 4 in 2017. Wooden spoon in 2018. Top 6 in 2019.
Any chance Ivan had at that sort of stuff has pretty much vanished in 2020 with the sizeof this rebuild. I know he likes to makeout as ghough Gus destroyed the cap and he had to do this. But I cant help but think Guswould have been able to keep the team cap compliant without a complete rebuild. He seemed to easily offload guys with us covering only a small portion of the first year of their contracts if anything at all.
This is exactly what I thought. From memory, Ricky inherited a team that was built and forged by the late Graham Murray.
Depends if you rate the squad we had or not. Wasn't room to make changes how it was
It's pretty difficult to judge how good coaches are though. There are so many factors, between the roster, club management, facilities and cultural issues that are outside the coaches control.
Just look at Seibold and Bennett. Last year Seibold was the golden child. A fresh new face with an esoteric take on a brutal game. This year he's an overly theoretical, inexperienced egg head who can't deal with the pressure cooker that is the Broncos. Bennett last year was the old master who was well past his prime. This year he's the wily old fox who can never be discounted. You swap the rosters/club environments and you get a literal 180 on the perceptions of the coaches. Both clubs had almost identical seasons to 2018 too.
Well if you assume Maloney leaving gets us under the cap we could have looked at a squad like the below if we’d just flipped the right two backs (Sauce and Whare) and Reggie would potentially give us room to move still.
Edwards, DWZ, Blake, Crichton, To’o, Luai/Burton, Cleary, JFH, Api, Tamou, Kikau, Yeo, Blore, Leniu, Leota, Martin, Burns/Luai/Burton/Kenny
I don't see that squad as much more then fringe top 8. Wouldn't get much room to improve it for the following few seasons either. So I am glad we went bad enough that it forced the hand earlier on a few guys
Look at the roster turnover that is key going forward. Rarely does a side improve overnight under a new coach
That is a very selective reading of the information, but hey, if that's how you feel, go for it. Just so I'm clear, the Roosters 3 GF's was all luck and the team was made by somebody else and the Raiders is due to???
Cleary inherited a good team this year that qualified for the finals 3 years in a row. Quick as a flash, and obviously that is quicker than any of our backline, he managed to get them unfit, demotivated, disorganised and then he broke them up. He is certainly on a roll. For his next trick, he'll get the wooden spoon and save us a fortune by getting rid of Too (off to the Eels and we pay all his salary) and JFH (off to the Eels and we pay only 50% of his salary). He replaces them with two juniors that play for the minimum wage and also clean the training facility every day, saving on the cleaning expenses.
Who knows, with the new fitness regime, Mansour might get to break 13.5 seconds for the 100m and Egan will manage to run for 15m in a single match (10 runs from dummy half at 1.5m each).
A skill he learned from Uncle Nick at the Roosters. They manage to move players around all the time. That sort of horse trading requires a bit of commercial nous and a finger on the pulse of the relative value of players to other teams. We'll never know if Gus could have fixed it because he left and all the decisions were made by the three wise men.
On reflection it was kinda fun to make the semi finals 3 years in a row.
Even more reason for us to recruit another tough mongrel forward.
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