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2020 Top 30

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Blake is a loss but mainly because of that defence. I’ve seen Naden called limited a lot round here because of really poor defensive games in his rookie year. You wanna talk about limitations...after five years of Nrl Blake can still only carry the ball in one hand, he can’t run with it in two to keep defences guessing and he can’t switch hands, that is a huge limitation and one he’s done nothing to improve. And his passing is just as bad if not worse than Nadens, how many times have you seen Blake throw a clean crisp two handed pass? Never, he can’t pass two handed. His passes are one handed flicks if he has to throw it more than a metre he struggles. The try assist he picked up in parrA’s flogging of brissy is a perfect example, he almost bombed a simple try throwing a two metre push pass that bounced because he can’t throw it two handed. So sure Naden is limited but he’s not getting paid 500k to be limited after five years of Nrl to fix it, so I’ll take Naden easily.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
13 players out (some were bums) and so far 1 player in.
I think people just want to know we signing some decent players to give us hope for a better season next year.

Yeah I know but those numbers tell me we have to be chasing someone they don’t tell we aren’t signing anyone.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,327
If you're willing to defend losing almost half your roster and paying most of them not to play for us then obviously you don't expect very much.

Anyone who thinks that is a job well done is in denial. But hey Ivan did an incredible job managing the Tigers cap and roster. He deserves tge BOTD after being so successful at doing the job with them.

Reserve graders on ridiculous overs that no club will touch.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
If you're willing to defend losing almost half your roster and paying most of them not to play for us then obviously you don't expect very much.

Anyone who thinks that is a job well done is in denial. But hey Ivan did an incredible job managing the Tigers cap and roster. He deserves tge BOTD after being so successful at doing the job with them.

Reserve graders on ridiculous overs that no club will touch.

Im just not going to freak out like you are over some over paid under performing first graders or guys who have had multiple season to establish themselves as first graders and still haven’t. Yes I am willing to give the BOTD to them, there is a long way to go this pff season yet I’m not going to bitch and moan my way through it like you, I see plenty of opportunities for improvement and I’m keen to see what they do with it.
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
13,781
My concern is the plan/strategy.

Gus always had one. Our current plan is literally going back to the good old days of Panthers management: release players, hopefully we sign someone else.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
My concern is the plan/strategy.

Gus always had one. Our current plan is literally going back to the good old days of Panthers management: release players, hopefully we sign someone else.

You don't think how we are now has us better positioned going forward
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
My concern is the plan/strategy.

Gus always had one. Our current plan is literally going back to the good old days of Panthers management: release players, hopefully we sign someone else.

We released a lot of players under Gus also so it doesn't seem like a big change to me. In 2017 we had like 18 losses, the year before we had 20 losses so lets just relax a little.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,327
Im just not going to freak out like you are over some over paid under performing first graders or guys who have had multiple season to establish themselves as first graders and still haven’t. Yes I am willing to give the BOTD to them, there is a long way to go this pff season yet I’m not going to bitch and moan my way through it like you, I see plenty of opportunities for improvement and I’m keen to see what they do with it.
Who's greaking out? Im calling someone doing a shit job out for it.

Ivan is not fit to be both coach and manage the roster. His time at Tigers proved that. He overpaid guys he loved coaching from his Warriors days at Tigers and it screwed them. Likewise in getting desperate to add spine players he overpaid Mbye and Reynolds.

Blake and DWZ hadnt establishes themselves as first graders? Bullshit. 12 months earlier they were our 2 best backs. DWZ earned himself the captaincy of New Zealand while Blake had our best strike rate at scoring tries.

Now we are paying them to play elsewhere. To save a few bucks and signing no one. We didnt need to get rid of them. Jimmy and RCG would easilyhave put us under the cap and allowed us to sign Koroisau still.

But now Ivan has lots of money to sign inferior players on bigger contracts just as he did at the Tigers. But hey if you want tp give him the BOTD based on the zero times he has successfully managed a roster go for it.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,327
We released a lot of players under Gus also so it doesn't seem like a big change to me. In 2017 we had like 18 losses, the year before we had 20 losses so lets just relax a little.
What you're trying to lump players nowhere near first grade in with our losses under Gus? Top 25/30 gains and losses are whatwe are judging Ivan on and he has doubled the turnover Gus had.
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
13,781
You don't think how we are now has us better positioned going forward

Kinda?

We don't have the pulling power anymore. No Gus, no recent premiership success, coach who has a poor reputation (though that will go away in time). Why play for Penrith?

Maybe our cap is sorted out now. But that means nothing unless we recruit well. You get the feeling we are trying but not succeeding in the marketplace.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Who's greaking out? Im calling someone doing a shit job out for it.

Ivan is not fit to be both coach and manage the roster. His time at Tigers proved that. He overpaid guys he loved coaching from his Warriors days at Tigers and it screwed them. Likewise in getting desperate to add spine players he overpaid Mbye and Reynolds.

Blake and DWZ hadnt establishes themselves as first graders? Bullshit. 12 months earlier they were our 2 best backs. DWZ earned himself the captaincy of New Zealand while Blake had our best strike rate at scoring tries.

Now we are paying them to play elsewhere. To save a few bucks and signing no one. We didnt need to get rid of them. Jimmy and RCG would easilyhave put us under the cap and allowed us to sign Koroisau still.

But now Ivan has lots of money to sign inferior players on bigger contracts just as he did at the Tigers. But hey if you want tp give him the BOTD based on the zero times he has successfully managed a roster go for it.

The tigers were a basket case in the front office and on the field for years before Ivans arrival. They had fans protesting, Mick Potter being forced out by players, then Jason Taylor, they had Marina Go in the front office. It was a circus, but yeah its all on Ivan.

Your comments seem irrational. Only once in the last 4 seasons have we lost less than 13 players FTR.
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
13,781
We released a lot of players under Gus also so it doesn't seem like a big change to me. In 2017 we had like 18 losses, the year before we had 20 losses so lets just relax a little.

Yes but what comes in is the key.

Equally important is the plan for recruitment. And after this season I've got little faith that we know what we are doing.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
What you're trying to lump players nowhere near first grade in with our losses under Gus? Top 25/30 gains and losses are whatwe are judging Ivan on and he has doubled the turnover Gus had.

They are our gains and losses, you just don't want to accept that Gus released more. Was Peau Peau knocking down the door in FG this year was he? Lui Toso? Lol Gain and losses are Gains and losses, you don't get to decide who counts and who doesn't. You were the one acting like 13 is a big number.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Yes but what comes in is the key.

Equally important is the plan for recruitment. And after this season I've got little faith that we know what we are doing.

Well Ill wait and see who they sign, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,327
They are our gains and losses, you just don't want to accept that Gus released more. Was Peau Peau knocking down the door in FG this year was he? Lui Toso? Lol Gain and losses are Gains and losses, you don't get to decide who counts and who doesn't. You were the one acting like 13 is a big number.
Our top 30 (previously top 25) are the only gains and losses that truly matter to our NRL team.

Even a complete rebuild doesn't usually shed half the top squad in 12 months. I thought our turnover was high under Gus... Ivan has gone and f**king doubled it.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Kinda?

We don't have the pulling power anymore. No Gus, no recent premiership success, coach who has a poor reputation (though that will go away in time). Why play for Penrith?

Maybe our cap is sorted out now. But that means nothing unless we recruit well. You get the feeling we are trying but not succeeding in the marketplace.

You don't Brandy could say come here and I can get you in Origin?

How many players off contract are offered on inflated prices? I see that as the issue. Corey Oates is the Son in law of a board member and still not offically signed. Similar story for Walker, Glenn etc.

Once player managers realise they aren't worth so much then I think the signings will flow
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Most reasonable.

Ill just add part of Goulds plan was for our losses to eventually be mostly(he mentioned 80 percent a lot) replaced intenrally such as Too taking Dallins spot, Luai or Burton taking Maloneys spot and guys like Martin, Burns coming through is the perfect example of what he envisioned. Its why they spent so much on the juniors.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,327
You don't think how we are now has us better positioned going forward
Paying ~10% of our cap to players at other clubs has us better positioned?

Losing our 2 best backs from the past few seasons, while still (atm) having our 2 worst backs on the books has us better positioned?

Theres no one available that is even as good as those we lost... and certainly no one better available. In what universe are we better positioned with an inferior squad and infeeior players as the only options? Worse still Ivan needs to pay overs to attract players. Without Gus we arent getting any big names short of blowing every other bid out the water. Else the best we can hope for is scraps.
 

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