2022 NRL ratings

[baselinepanther]

Good point

the afl had the two biggest tv markets in Australia in the grand final and still struggled to beat an all Sydney grand final in overall ratings

yea,
their GF ratings should of been of more concern for them , then ours for us

 

[The_Wookie]

yea,
their GF ratings should of been of more concern for them , then ours for us

I think any concern will mostly be media driven for both - both games were blowouts and the ratings were low as a result.

 

[Wb1234]

I think any concern will mostly be media driven for both - both games were blowouts and the ratings were low as a result.

So the afl has a “national competition” which people only want to watch if the scores are close

ok got it

 

[westerntiger]

I think the other AFL states (WA, SA) are waking up to the fact that they're literally second class citizens in a Vic-dominated league. The ratings in Perth and Adelaide were sub par given the domination of that 'sport' in those markets

 

[The_Wookie]

So the afl has a “national competition” which people only want to watch if the scores are close

ok got it

Mate have a look at your own ratings when its a blowout. No one really watches a flogging.

 

[Colk]

Which is why the game will never reach its true potential.

We'll be lucky to get one or two teams to relocate.

That’s all we would need though wouldn’t it? There is only 4 areas max which don’t have a side that could sustain a side - Perth Adelaide, another Kiwi side and possibly a third Brisbane side. Where else is possible?

Also, you can make a cogent argument that there are too many sides in Sydney but the argument that they only need one side is pretty ridiculous. In this hypothetical situation why would Brisbane, a city that has less than half the population of Sydney warrant two sides yet Sydney would have one?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That’s all we would need though wouldn’t it? There is only 4 areas max which don’t have a side that could sustain a side - Perth Adelaide, another Kiwi side and possibly a third Brisbane side. Where else is possible?

Also, you can make a cogent argument that there are too many sides in Sydney but the argument that they only need one side is pretty ridiculous. In this hypothetical situation why would Brisbane, a city that has less than half the population of Sydney warrant two sides yet Sydney would have one?

The argument against rationalisation from Sydneysiders is fans of the culled/relocated team won't support one of the other teams. If that's true then create one team to represent Sydney so it can draw support from all RL fans. When it becomes a powerhouse like the Broncos add a second team. If that team becomes a powerhouse then add a third team. If that is a huge success then think about adding a fourth team.

Brisbane was saddled with just one team for the best part of 35 years. If it's good enough for Brisbane then it's good enough for Sydney to practice what they preach.

 

[Colk]

The argument against rationalisation from Sydneysiders is fans of the culled/relocated team won't support one of the other teams. If that's true then create one team to represent Sydney so it can draw support from all RL fans. When it becomes a powerhouse like the Broncos add a second team. If that team becomes a powerhouse then add a third team. If that is a huge success then think about adding a fourth team.

Brisbane was saddled with just one team for the best part of 35 years. If it's good enough for Brisbane then it's good enough for Sydney to practice what they preach.

Look I can see that emotion is overcoming logic in this regard.

Sure there are poorly supported clubs in Sydney but there are also well supported clubs from Sydney: Souths, Parra, Tigers (Jesus they have over 20k members and they haven’t made a finals appearance for over a decade) Dragons and probably even the Dogs.

If you said the optimum number of Sydney clubs (all things being equal) was 5 or 6 then you would have had a point

 

[Canard]

Look I can see that emotion is overcoming logic in this regard.

Sure there are poorly supported clubs in Sydney but there are also well supported clubs from Sydney: Souths, Parra, Tigers (Jesus they have over 20k members and they haven’t made a finals appearance for over a decade) Dragons and probably even the Dogs.

If you said the optimum number of Sydney clubs (all things being equal) was 5 or 6 then you would have had a point

That dude has to be trolling

 

[Colk]

That dude has to be trolling

On this I think he is too emotional to see reason. Maybe they should have truly merged the BRL and NSWRL back in the 1980’s but what’s done is done but to argue that Sydney should have less sides than Brisbane when comparing population and demographics is a bit silly

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Look I can see that emotion is overcoming logic in this regard.

Sure there are poorly supported clubs in Sydney but there are also well supported clubs from Sydney: Souths, Parra, Tigers (Jesus they have over 20k members and they haven’t made a finals appearance for over a decade) Dragons and probably even the Dogs.

If you said the optimum number of Sydney clubs (all things being equal) was 5 or 6 then you would have had a point

I can live with Sydney keeping six or seven of its strongest teams. I was just using the argument put forward by NSWRL fans on here against them.

Sharks, Sea Eagles and Dragons are struggling for money and play at run down facilities. If those three were culled then it would create an opportunity for the Rabbitohs to return to SFS and become the default team for Southern Sydney/Wollongong, with Roosters taking over North Shore/Northern Beaches/Central Coast.

 

[Colk]

I can live with Sydney keeping six or seven of its strongest teams. I was just using the argument put forward by NSWRL fans on here against them.

Sharks, Sea Eagles and Dragons are struggling for money and play at run down facilities. If those three were culled then it would create an opportunity for the Rabbitohs to return to SFS and become the default team for Southern Sydney/Wollongong, with Roosters taking over North Shore/Northern Beaches/Central Coast.

Fair enough.

I can see the Dragons becoming predominantly a side from Wollongong in any case with maybe some of their big games at the SFS.

It’ll be interesting to see the clubs who fail to adjust the new stadium setup in Sydney and how that plays out there.

Look, I don’t really see anything happening to teams looking at how much money the game makes. The biggest possibility would be a relocation but even then that shouldn’t really happen unless a club is completely financially negligent

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

On this I think he is too emotional to see reason. Maybe they should have truly merged the BRL and NSWRL back in the 1980’s but what’s done is done but to argue that Sydney should have less sides than Brisbane when comparing population and demographics is a bit silly

If it's silly then it means the way the NSWRL has handled RL in SEQ over the last 40 years is insane, yet @Canard supports it.

I'm questioning the sincerity of the arguments used by NSWRL fans. If there's any truth to their claim that RL fans of culled Sydney clubs won't support any of the other teams due to tribalism -- which is what they claim when talking about the Bears' demise and Swans' rise in popularity -- then the answer is to go down the path taken by A-League when it removed the ethnic-based clubs from Sydney and replaced them with Sydney FC. NBL has two teams in Melbourne and just one in Sydney.

Rugby League is more popular and profitable in Brisbane than it is in Sydney, just like basketball is bigger in Melbourne than Sydney.

 

[Colk]

If it's silly then it means the way the NSWRL has handled RL in SEQ over the last 40 years is insane, yet @Canard supports it.

I'm questioning the sincerity of the arguments used by NSWRL fans. If there's any truth to their claim that RL fans of culled Sydney clubs won't support any of the other teams due to tribalism -- which is what they claim when talking about the Bears' demise and Swans' rise in popularity -- then the answer is to go down the path taken by A-League when it removed the ethnic-based clubs from Sydney and replaced them with Sydney FC. NBL has two teams in Melbourne and just one in Sydney.

Rugby League is more popular and profitable in Brisbane than it is in Sydney, just like basketball is bigger in Melbourne than Sydney.

I think it is overegged. There might be a correlation yes and there might have been a number that did move their support from League to AFL but I think it is more to do with the success of the Swans over the last 25 years. The same thing happens with the Lions in Brisbane.

I think that is a very questionable statement. If it were to be true than the Broncos would have to have attracted more than half the corporate dollars of all of the nine Sydney clubs put together (adjusted for population difference).

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Fair enough.

I can see the Dragons becoming predominantly a side from Wollongong in any case with maybe some of their big games at the SFS.

It’ll be interesting to see the clubs who fail to adjust the new stadium setup in Sydney and how that plays out there.

Look, I don’t really see anything happening to teams looking at how much money the game makes. The biggest possibility would be a relocation but even then that shouldn’t really happen unless a club is completely financially negligent

Wollongong cannot sustain a team on its own. If Cronulla f**ked off and left everything in Southern Sydney and Illawarra to the Dragons then it could become financially viable, but it will never become a powerhouse raking in big money from the corporate sector.

My fear for our game is we cannot grow into new markets because we've financially crippled ourselves by basing the sport around nine small Sydney clubs that need to be propped up. There aren't any financially powerful Sydney clubs that appeal to the corporate sector. The Cowboys are more valuable than the Sydney clubs. We don't have the money to expand into new markets. If it wasn't for News Ltd we wouldn't have a stake in Melbourne.

How is our game going to grow?

Why would any kid born today want to support our game in 2032 when there's global sports with trendy brands, such as Man U, Lakers and Yankees to latch onto?

Kids gravitate towards the latest trend. Swans are the biggest club in Sydney and Kings are very popular with the Chinese and Philippino community, pulling massive crowds at the Sydney Super Dome. Swans and Kings play at world class facilities. Most Sydney clubs play at shitholes.

No club will relocate because the ARLC will continue to bail them out. It means in 2042 we will still have the same problems. By that stage our competition will have eaten into our market, reducing our value and making us a niche sport like RU. It's a really depressing time to be an RL fan.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think it is overegged. There might be a correlation yes and there might have been a number that did move their support from League to AFL but I think it is more to do with the success of the Swans over the last 25 years. The same thing happens with the Lions in Brisbane.

I think that is a very questionable statement. If it were to be true than the Broncos would have to have attracted more than half the corporate dollars of all of the nine Sydney clubs put together (adjusted for population difference).

Broncos have to turn sponsors away because there's only so many spots available on their jersey and ground. What really hurts the Broncos is our game has no reach into Adelaide and Perth due to the policies of the NRL since 1998. There's only so much value in supporting the world's largest RL club when the sport has no market in Adelaide and Perth.

The Lions do quite well despite being a niche club. A sponsor of the Lions will be noticed in five metro markets. In 2021 they raked in $9,899,937 from "Corporate and marketing sales" on p11 of their annual report. That puts them ahead of every Sydney NRL club.

https://resources.lions.com.au/aflc-bl/document/2022/01/10/35073b75-74d1-4083-81f1-65a44de401d1/210475_2021_Financial_Report.pdf

Swans drew $15.2m from "sponsorship and hospitality" in 2021.

Red and white and in the black

Official AFL Website of the Sydney Swans Football Club

www.sydneyswans.com.au

 

[Colk]

Wollongong cannot sustain a team on its own. If Cronulla f**ked off and left everything in Southern Sydney and Illawarra to the Dragons then it could become financially viable, but it will never become a powerhouse raking in big money from the corporate sector.

My fear for our game is we cannot grow into new markets because we've financially crippled ourselves by basing the sport around nine small Sydney clubs that need to be propped up. There aren't any financially powerful Sydney clubs that appeal to the corporate sector. The Cowboys are more valuable than the Sydney clubs. We don't have the money to expand into new markets. If it wasn't for News Ltd we wouldn't have a stake in Melbourne.

How is our game going to grow?

Why would any kid born today want to support our game in 2032 when there's global sports with trendy brands, such as Man U, Lakers and Yankees to latch onto?

Kids gravitate towards the latest trend. Swans are the biggest club in Sydney and Kings are very popular with the Chinese and Philippino community, pulling massive crowds at the Sydney Super Dome. Swans and Kings play at world class facilities. Most Sydney clubs play at shitholes.

No club will relocate because the ARLC will continue to bail them out. It means in 2042 we will still have the same problems. By that stage our competition will have eaten into our market, reducing our value and making us a niche sport like RU. It's a really depressing time to be an RL fan.

1. That’s not true. I would argue that Souths, Parra and the Roosters would be quite strong financially. Souths and Parra would probably also have similar support to the Cowboys and all three of those clubs would have more corporate dollars than the Cowboys. Tigers and Dragons wouldn’t also be small either. Penrith has potential. Essentially you are looking at Sharks and Sea Eagles as poorly supported clubs with the Bulldogs being middling.

Also I think you are overestimating the Cowboys support. They have less than 20k members for example. They are not the same as the Broncos

2. What markets do we need to expand into? There would be four maximum - Perth, Adelaide, NZ 2 (and that wouldn’t be a financial powerhouse) and Brisbane 3 (dependent on how the Dolphins go). I don’t see any other logical options other than those. PNG is a no go at this point in time. Central QLD is too small. Central Coast ditto. Where else could the competition logically go.

3. You are really talking about the Sydney Kings and comparing them with NRL sides? Seriously the NBL is a very very small competition and will probably remain that way for the same reason as the A-League: there are much better competitions overseas that people will gravitate towards. Anyway, cricket is the number one summer sport in this country and will always be.

Also re global brands, if they are attracted to these sides because they are global brands, arguing for three, four or however many sides in Sydney or Brisbane or any comment about a domestic competition is logically redundant. A domestic competition can’t do anything about it because it is a domestic competition.

I think you are overegging it a little in any case. People follow multiple sports if they are indeed interested in sport - they don’t just generally follow one.

4. Could Rugby League become a niche sport. Possibly. Maybe. However I strongly doubt that the game will ever reach the nadir of Union or other sports in this country. Even if our deals are not near fumbleball, our TV deals are the second biggest in this country and second biggest by a considerable margin. Like, Jesus, the sport you are comparing us to Union has a TV deal which is what $30 million per annum and has a competition with what 4 sides in it.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

1. That’s not true. I would argue that Souths, Parra and the Roosters would be quite strong financially. Souths and Parra would probably also have similar support to the Cowboys and all three of those clubs would have more corporate dollars than the Cowboys. Tigers and Dragons wouldn’t also be small either. Penrith has potential. Essentially you are looking at Sharks and Sea Eagles as poorly supported clubs with the Bulldogs being middling.

@Perth Red knows how much Parra get from sponsorship. It's lower than the Cowboys. A quick look at the Parramatta Leagues 2021 annual report listed their revenue from "sponsorship and hospitality" as $7.9m on p37 , $3.1m from catering and just under $1.8m from grog. Most of the club's revenue came from pokies ($35m) and the NRL grant ($14m). Cowboys drew $8.9m in sponsorship and another $6.8m from "food and beverage". It's listed on p18 of the Cowboys annual report. We don't know exactly what Parra is getting from sponsorship as they bundle it with hospitality, which I assume is corporate packages?

Swans do the same thing to get to a number of $15.2m.

Merchandise for Cowboys ($1.3m) almost twice that of Eels ($700k). Game day and membership was just under $4.9m for Eels and $8.9m for Cowboys.

Annual Report 2021

Read Annual Report 2021 by Parra Leagues on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on our platform. Start here!

issuu.com

https://cowboysleagues.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/AnnualReport-2021-DL.pdf

Also I think you are overestimating the Cowboys support. They have less than 20k members for example. They are not the same as the Broncos

I'm going by the annual reports of Broncos, Cowboys, Eels (above), Sharks and Bulldogs. Broncos dwarf every club in money from merchandise, membership and gate receipts. I'm talking about sponsorship because it reflects on a club's value to the corporate sector. The Sydney clubs often group sponsorship together with hospitality aka food and beverage, so it's hard to know when their worth is to the corporate sector.

2. What markets do we need to expand into? There would be four maximum - Perth, Adelaide, NZ 2 (and that wouldn’t be a financial powerhouse) and Brisbane 3 (dependent on how the Dolphins go). I don’t see any other logical options other than those. PNG is a no go at this point in time. Central QLD is too small. Central Coast ditto. Where else could the competition logically go.

The metro markets is what appeals most to national companies. From that we need Adelaide and Perth. Cowboys do bloody well for a team in a small regional city.

3. You are really talking about the Sydney Kings and comparing them with NRL sides? Seriously the NBL is a very very small competition and will probably remain that way for the same reason as the A-League: there are much better competitions overseas that people will gravitate towards. Anyway, cricket is the number one summer sport in this country and will always be.

NBL is growing and is now the preferred option for young Americans who aspire to play in the NBA. The salary cap is about $1.1m, but the league is growing and has aspirations of becoming the second biggest league in the world. The Bullets acquired investment from a rich Jewish businessmen and there are plans for the NBL to expand into the Philippines. The gap between the NBL and NBA on the court is closing. A few weeks ago the Adelaide 36ers beat a full strength Phoenix Suns by 10 points in America. The NBA clubs regularly send scouts to Australia to scout NBL talent. It is a world class league and not far off the European competition, so it could very well become second only to NBA and overtake cricket as our number one summer sport. Cricket is in serious decline and has no where to go with the IPL devaluing the BBL.

Also re global brands, if they are attracted to these sides because they are global brands, arguing for three, four or however many sides in Sydney or Brisbane or any comment about a domestic competition is logically redundant. A domestic competition can’t do anything about it because it is a domestic competition.

I see plenty of kids at NBL and AFL games. Those two leagues are growing. NRL isn't.

I think you are overegging it a little in any case. People follow multiple sports if they are indeed interested in sport - they don’t just generally follow one.

4. Could Rugby League become a niche sport. Possibly. Maybe. However I strongly doubt that the game will ever reach the nadir of Union or other sports in this country. Even if our deals are not near fumbleball, our TV deals are the second biggest in this country and second biggest by a considerable margin. Like, Jesus, the sport you are comparing us to Union has a TV deal which is what $30 million per annum and has a competition with what 4 sides in it.

For now. The AFL is really starting to pull away from us. I suspect AFL will become the sole tier 1 sport with cricket and NRL tier 2 and losing ground to an expanding NBL, which will become tier 3 followed by A-League and Super Rugby as tier 4.

 

[Colk]

@Perth Red knows how much Parra get from sponsorship. It's lower than the Cowboys. A quick look at the Parramatta Leagues 2021 annual report listed their revenue from "sponsorship and hospitality" as $7.9m on p37. Most of the club's revenue came from pokies ($35m) and the NRL grant ($14m). Cowboys drew $8.9m in sponsorship alone and another $6.8m from "food and beverage", which is another name for "hospitality". It's listed on p18 of the Cowboys annual report. We don't know exactly what Parra is getting from sponsorship as they bundle it with hospitality. Swans do the same thing to get to a number of $15.2m. If you do the same for the Cowboys them the club made $15.9m from "sponsorship and hospitality".

Merchandise for Cowboys ($1.3m) almost twice that of Eels ($700k). Game day and membership was just under $4.9m for Eels and $8.9m for Cowboys.

Annual Report 2021

Read Annual Report 2021 by Parra Leagues on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on our platform. Start here!

issuu.com

https://cowboysleagues.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/AnnualReport-2021-DL.pdf

I'm going by the annual reports of Broncos, Cowboys, Eels (above), Sharks and Bulldogs. Broncos dwarf every club in money from merchandise, membership and gate receipts. I'm talking about sponsorship because it reflects on a club's value to the corporate sector. The Sydney clubs often group sponsorship together with hospitality aka food and beverage, so it's hard to know when their worth is to the corporate sector.


The metro markets is what appeals most to national companies. From that we need Adelaide and Perth. Cowboys do bloody well for a team in a small regional city.


NBL is growing and is now the preferred option for young Americans who aspire to play in the NBA. The salary cap is about $1.1m, but the league is growing and has aspirations of becoming the second biggest league in the world. The Bullets acquired investment from a rich Jewish businessmen and there are plans for the NBL to expand into the Philippines. The gap between the NBL and NBA on the court is closing. A few weeks ago the Adelaide 36ers beat a full strength Phoenix Suns by 10 points in America. The NBA clubs regularly send scouts to Australia to watching NBL talent. It is a world class league and not far off the European competition, so it could very well become second only to NBA and overtake cricket as our number one summer sport. Cricket is in serious decline and has no where to go with the IPL devaluing the BBL.



I see plenty of kids at NBL and AFL games. Those two leagues are growing. NRL isn't.



For now. The AFL is really starting to pull away from us. I suspect AFL will become the sole tier 1 sport with cricket and NRL tier 2 and losing ground to an expanding NBL, which will become tier 3 followed by A-League and Super Rugby as tier 4.[/b][/b]

Agree on League going to the two major metro markets. I’m not convinced that League will go to Adelaide but yeah that’s where we should go.

On the NBL, I don’t know if you are actually being serious but if you are, I think you are massively deluded if you think the NBL will overtake or even challenge cricket. Perhaps your view is based on the fact that you like NBL and don’t like cricket but when the tests are on against South Africa and when the finals of this World Cup are on, it will be wall to wall media saturation - nationwide.

The NBL, on the other hand, can’t even get on FTA because the interest in the competition is so low. It’s a niche competition in every sense of the word. I wouldn’t even know if it was on now for example and I follow the NBA

On every metric possible - media coverage, TV dollars, TV numbers, crowd attendances, cricket is miles ahead of NBL. That’s not even an argument, it is just a fact.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Agree on League going to the two major metro markets. I’m not convinced that League will go to Adelaide but yeah that’s where we should go.

On the NBL, I don’t know if you are actually being serious but if you are, I think you are massively deluded if you think the NBL will overtake or even challenge cricket. Perhaps your view is based on the fact that you like NBL and don’t like cricket but when the tests are on against South Africa and when the finals of this World Cup are on, it will be wall to wall media saturation - nationwide.

The NBL, on the other hand, can’t even get on FTA because the interest in the competition is so low. It’s a niche competition in every sense of the word. I wouldn’t even know if it was on now for example and I follow the NBA

On every metric possible - media coverage, TV dollars, TV numbers, crowd attendances, cricket is miles ahead of NBL. That’s not even an argument, it is just a fact.

I'm talking about the future. Of course it's behind cricket at the moment, but that doesn't mean it will be in 20 years from now when all the old timers who have a bias for cricket are dead.

Basketball is the main sport in the Philippines and very popular in China. There's a large Chinese and Philippino community in Australia and they support the NRL. Their population is going to grow over the next few decades. They don't give two shits about cricket.

I see lots of young kids from all ethnicities at NBL games. Most games are sold out or close to it. The average salary for an NBL player is increasing. Compare this with the BBL, which has declining audiences and an older fanbase. B CO won't allow Indian contracted players to compete in it and the best players from Australia are busy playing Tests. A few Englishmen play in it when they're not on tour for England. It has club players not good enough for Sheffield Shield playing in it. I stopped watching last year as the quality is terrible. Even Ch7 want to tear up their contract with CA over the BBL.

Test cricket is a dying format and there's only 5 or 6 each summer.


We just had a very successful FIBA Women's World Cup in Sydney where we won bronze. The crowds were great.

I took an interest in the NBL 12 months. Every match is broadcast on ESPN with two simulcast each Sunday on 10Peach.

Australia is ranked number 2 in men's basketball. This sport is a sleeping giant.