2022 NRL ratings

[Colk]

You're only seeing what you want to see.

I see similarities between RU and cricket. Both have little support at club level and only rate at Test level.

BBL is not a top tier league. There are a few leagues around the world that are of a higher standard. The players themselves admit this. There is no room for it in the calendar, either. It's competing against the Test team for relevancy and losing.

CA tried to lengthen the BBL season, but had to contract it again because crowds nosedived. You laugh at NBL, but at least it plays a full season of 28 games. BBL only has 10 games played over a few weeks during the school holidays because the public doesn't take it seriously. It looks like the initial excitement it drew has worn off. People just aren't interested in anything below Tests in this country.

Yes the NBL is niche, but it's growing and is bringing in more money than any other time in its history.

If you're going to say NBL is f**ked because it's not NBA then I guess BBL is f**ked as it's not IPL.

Does anyone in this country who isn't Indian even care for IPL?

Call me delusional, but I believe cricket is an archaic sport that doesn't fit into today's fast paced world. Kids are stuck on their phones more than ever because it provides countless entertainment options.

1. Pot kettle black. You are showing massive bias here because you like NBL. That’s clear. That doesn’t mean you should ignore all data or evidence because of who you hang out with or your micro world confirms your view. Use evidence instead. Cricket outrates NBL to such an extent that it is implausible to believe what you believe.

2. I know cricket has its problems and I mentioned it in my previous posts. I also didn’t say that NBL is a s*** competition (that is you clearly reading too much in to what I said) I just said that it suffers the same issues as the A-League or a lot of other competitions in this country where there are much bigger competitions or alternatives overseas. People gravitate towards these options. That is plainly obvious so I don’t see why you are getting emotional about it. For example, if you said more people have an interest in the NBA, MLB or NFL than cricket in this country than that would be very plausible (and there is evidence to suggest that) but you are not.

3. I don’t know about the IPL, I didn’t even mention that, so that is a strawman. You stated that cricket is a dying sport which considering it is probably the second biggest sport in the world in terms of viewership and the audience numbers that I showed you is a particularly strange thing to say.

 

[Colk]

Key word from my comment being "could". It's not as far-fetched as you think. Test crowds have been stagnant at best and arguably in decline for 40 years. Tests at the Gabba are played in front of empty seats more often than not. We only get one Test a year and it can only fill a quarter of the GABBA. ODIs and T20is don't draw shit, hence the reason Ch7 didn't even bid for them.

You hang shit on the Kings, yet they're playing in front of 11k fans at the Sydney Super Dome these days, which is comparable to Sydney NRL clubs. Wildcats also play in front of 10k fans. There is more support for this league than you want to admit.

The NBL is bigger and more popular today than any other time in its history, refuting your claim it hasn't grown. We just had an NBL club beat a full-strength Phoenix Suns, yet they currently sit third last on the NBL ladder. We have NBA players and prospective NBA players bypassing Europe and NCAA to play in the NBL.

I am perfectly capable of reading what you wrote. The use of could infers possibility or potential in this context whereas two posts earlier you tried to backtrack by saying it just had room for growth. Entirely different scenarios. Don’t try arguments based in sophistry because I’m not stupid.

Also, yes, it is completely unrealistic to suggest a competition that rates 50k per game, which is pretty much nothing and the most niche of niche (even if it is the biggest it has ever been - hardly impressive really) is somehow going to grow beyond the number one summer sport in this country which regularly rates 10, 20 or 30 times what the NBL does. It is an absolutely ludicrous position and you trying to double down on it shows your complete inability to be objective.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

1. Pot kettle black. You are showing massive bias here because you like NBL. That’s clear. That doesn’t mean you should ignore all data or evidence because of who you hang out with or your micro world confirms your view. Use evidence instead. Cricket outrates NBL to such an extent that it is implausible to believe what you believe.

2. I know cricket has its problems and I mentioned it in my previous posts. I also didn’t say that NBL is a s*** competition (that is you clearly reading too much in to what I said) I just said that it suffers the same issues as the A-League or a lot of other competitions in this country where there are much bigger competitions or alternatives overseas. People gravitate towards these options. That is plainly obvious so I don’t see why you are getting emotional about it. For example, if you said more people have an interest in the NBA, MLB or NFL than cricket in this country than that would be very plausible (and there is evidence to suggest that) but you are not.

3. I don’t know about the IPL, I didn’t even mention that, so that is a strawman. You stated that cricket is a dying sport which considering it is probably the second biggest sport in the world in terms of viewership and the audience numbers that I showed you is a particularly strange thing to say.

You compared NBL players to club cricketers and said our best players head to Europe if they cannot make the NBA. That was once true, but these days Australia's best players and prospective NBA players from America, like Lamello Ball, are choosing Australia over Europe. It proves you don't know anything about basketball.

Bullets have Aron Baynes and Nathan Sobey from the Australian 2020 Olympics team that won bronze. Baynes turned down offers from Europe to play for Brisbane. Dellavedova played in the NBL last year and not Europe before signing with Sacramento. Tyler Johnson is in Brisbane and not Europe after playing almost 200 NBA games. There's plenty of other NBA players in the NBL. We even have young stars from France playing in the NBL to enhance their prospects of getting into the NBA.

You keep reverting back to ratings today to argue that cricket will always be number one. It's a poor metric as it doesn't take changing demographics and shifting cultural beliefs into account. You're wrong about immigration. Not all Brits who come here care about cricket. Most only care for soccer.

Believe whatever you want. I don't care. I know that in my lifetime ODIs have become redundant in the span of 15 to 20 years from the mid-90s onwards and T20is never took off. Tests are dying and only draw strong public interest when England are here, with many of the spectators being tourists from the Barmy Army. Tests against every other country are an afterthought. Sheffield Shield has been irrelevant for 60 years. BBL started off well, like the A-League, but has fizzled away and is now struggling.

Laugh all you like, but cricket has massive problems and an uncertain future. Not even the Tests against India were a sell-out, despite high immigration from India.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I am perfectly capable of reading what you wrote. The use of could infers possibility or potential in this context whereas two posts earlier you tried to backtrack by saying it just had room for growth. Entirely different scenarios. Don’t try arguments based in sophistry because I’m not stupid.

Also, yes, it is completely unrealistic to suggest a competition that rates 50k per game, which is pretty much nothing and the most niche of niche (even if it is the biggest it has ever been - hardly impressive really) is somehow going to grow beyond the number one summer sport in this country which regularly rates 10, 20 or 30 times what the NBL does. It is an absolutely ludicrous position and you trying to double down on it shows your complete inability to be objective.

Here's an example of how much interest Chinese imports are drawing to the NBL. More than 1 million people streamed a Bullets vs Phoenix game because it had two Chinese nationals playing against one another.

MSN

There are plans to expand into Philippines. Successful expansion into Philippines will open the door for China to enter the league. If that happens then the NBL will have the largest market to tap into and almost 1 million Chinese Australians to support it. This is the only sport capable of gaining traction within the Chinese Australian community.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/sunshine-coast/sport/nbl-exploring-expansion-into-philippines-and-china/news-story/ad5d210d6026dac582e1406325f98f57

 

[Canard]

Key word from my comment being "could". It's not as far-fetched as you think. Test crowds have been stagnant at best and arguably in decline for 40 years. Tests at the Gabba are played in front of empty seats more often than not. We only get one Test a year and it can only fill a quarter of the GABBA. ODIs and T20is don't draw shit, hence the reason Ch7 didn't even bid for them.

You hang shit on the Kings, yet they're playing in front of 11k fans at the Sydney Super Dome these days, which is comparable to Sydney NRL clubs. Wildcats also play in front of 10k fans. There is more support for this league than you want to admit.

The NBL is bigger and more popular today than any other time in its history, refuting your claim it hasn't grown. We just had an NBL club beat a full-strength Phoenix Suns, yet they currently sit third last on the NBL ladder. We have NBA players and prospective NBA players bypassing Europe and NCAA to play in the NBL.

The NBL is most definitely not as big as it was in the late 80s/early 90s (when it was a winter sport)

In QLD and NSW for example it well outrated the AFL and dominated media for all sports except RL.

NSW had 4 teams, Victoria 4 and QLD 4.

The league contracted massively since then though and is only just now getting some resemblance of its heyday. The NBL has had a lot of false dawns before.

By the way a pre-season result is a nothing burger.

 

[Canard]

Here's an example of how much interest Chinese imports are drawing to the NBL. More than 1 million people streamed a Bullets vs Phoenix game because it had two Chinese nationals playing against one another.

MSN

There are plans to expand into Philippines. Successful expansion into Philippines will open the door for China to enter the league. If that happens then the NBL will have the largest market to tap into and almost 1 million Chinese Australians to support it. This is the only sport capable of gaining traction within the Chinese Australian community.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/sunshine-coast/sport/nbl-exploring-expansion-into-philippines-and-china/news-story/ad5d210d6026dac582e1406325f98f57

6 of those "expansion" locations are cities that have had NBL teams in the past.

 

[Colk]

You compared NBL players to club cricketers and said our best players head to Europe if they cannot make the NBA. That was once true, but these days Australia's best players and prospective NBA players from America, like Lamello Ball, are choosing Australia over Europe. It proves you don't know anything about basketball.

Bullets have Aron Baynes and Nathan Sobey from the Australian 2020 Olympics team that won bronze. Baynes turned down offers from Europe to play for Brisbane. Dellavedova played in the NBL last year and not Europe before signing with Sacramento. Tyler Johnson is in Brisbane and not Europe after playing almost 200 NBA games. There's plenty of other NBA players in the NBL. We even have young stars from France playing in the NBL to enhance their prospects of getting into the NBA.

You keep reverting back to ratings today to argue that cricket will always be number one. It's a poor metric as it doesn't take changing demographics and shifting cultural beliefs into account. You're wrong about immigration. Not all Brits who come here care about cricket. Most only care for soccer.

Believe whatever you want. I don't care. I know that in my lifetime ODIs have become redundant in the span of 15 to 20 years from the mid-90s onwards and T20is never took off. Tests are dying and only draw strong public interest when England are here, with many of the spectators being tourists from the Barmy Army. Tests against every other country are an afterthought. Sheffield Shield has been irrelevant for 60 years. BBL started off well, like the A-League, but has fizzled away and is now struggling.

Laugh all you like, but cricket has massive problems and an uncertain future. Not even the Tests against India were a sell-out, despite high immigration from India.

Pfft this is getting laborious.

This is essentially your argument for summary

1. I like the NBL and there are good players in the competition.
2. I went to a school that had a lot of immigrants and they didn’t like cricket, therefore this is Australia
3. I have seen some South East Asians at NBL games, therefore all South East Asians like basketball and like the NBL. I highlighted the paragraph because it is a particular doozy - you are essentially doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing (and no I have never said all English people like cricket - you are inventing arguments)
4. Cricket is a game for old farts, therefore no young person would like it

I’ll use these somewhat divergent points based on purely anecdotal experience and conjur an argument that basketball is going to overtake cricket despite all actual statistical evidence (which I have given you) going against me.

If you want to actually debate me rather than project your own feelings on the matter then answer me these few fairly simple questions which kind of exposes your logical fallacy

Considering the changing demographics of this country and those changing demographics being apparent for a long time - we have had a significant South East Asian population for a long time, even North America emigration has been significant for a long time - why then has this not translated to actual significant support for the NBL? It is not like we have just had the Vietnam war and we have rescinded the White Australia policy yesterday - so why is there only 50k or so people watching? Also, if these conditions are and have been prevalent for such a long time, why are they now suddenly going to mean an increase in support of hundreds of thousands of people in this country?

For a person who wants to accuse somebody else of not understanding immigration, changing demographics and it’s impacts, why are you then presenting an argument that has such a basic flaw in its premise?

Btw I don’t have any skin in this game mate. I don’t mind both games. Simply the best predictor of the future is the past and the present - you actually have to see a trend in order to make a judgement on the future. Now, that doesn’t always mean that those predictions hold true but it is a lot more likely than suggesting something will happen in the future that has no predicator.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The NBL is most definitely not as big as it was in the late 80s/early 90s (when it was a winter sport)

In QLD and NSW for example it well outrated the AFL and dominated media for all sports except RL.

NSW had 4 teams, Victoria 4 and QLD 4.

The league contracted massively since then though and is only just now getting some resemblance of its heyday. The NBL has had a lot of false dawns before.

By the way a pre-season result is a nothing burger.

Player salaries were never as high as they are today. These days the salary cap is $1.7m and the current broadcast deal is the largest in history, at $45m over three seasons.

6 of those "expansion" locations are cities that have had NBL teams in the past.

So?

I guess RL is f**ked then since Bris2, Adelaide, Perth, Newcastle2, Wollongong, Auckland and God knows how many Sydney teams failed around the same time the NBL lost the Devils, Supercats, Suns/Crocodiles, Rollers/Blaze, Falcons/Pirates and Cannons?

Of all the sports, the NBL is the only one that has a team in all six states that play out of quality facilities.

 

[Colk]

Here's an example of how much interest Chinese imports are drawing to the NBL. More than 1 million people streamed a Bullets vs Phoenix game because it had two Chinese nationals playing against one another.

MSN

There are plans to expand into Philippines. Successful expansion into Philippines will open the door for China to enter the league. If that happens then the NBL will have the largest market to tap into and almost 1 million Chinese Australians to support it. This is the only sport capable of gaining traction within the Chinese Australian community.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/sunshine-coast/sport/nbl-exploring-expansion-into-philippines-and-china/news-story/ad5d210d6026dac582e1406325f98f57

You do know that China has a population of over 1.4 billion right?

China Population (2024) - Worldometer

Population of China: current, historical, and projected population, growth rate, immigration, median age, total fertility rate (TFR), population density, urbanization, urban population, country's share of world population, and global rank. Data tables, maps, charts, and live population clock

www.worldometers.info

it’s also quite hypocritical to use this as evidence of some burgeoning competition whilst at the same time arguing that a sport that is being watched by billions of people globally is somehow dying? It’s completely inconsistent.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Pfft this is getting laborious.

This is essentially your argument for summary

1. I like the NBL and there are good players in the competition.
2. I went to a school that had a lot of immigrants and they didn’t like cricket, therefore this is Australia
3. I have seen some South East Asians at NBL games, therefore all South East Asians like basketball and like the NBL. I highlighted the paragraph because it is a particular doozy - you are essentially doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing (and no I have never said all English people like cricket - you are inventing arguments)
4. Cricket is a game for old farts, therefore no young person would like it

I’ll use these somewhat divergent points based on purely anecdotal experience and conjur an argument that basketball is going to overtake cricket despite all actual statistical evidence (which I have given you) going against me.

If you want to actually debate me rather than project your own feelings on the matter then answer me these few fairly simple questions which kind of exposes your logical fallacy

Considering the changing demographics of this country and those changing demographics being apparent for a long time - we have had a significant South East Asian population for a long time, even North America emigration has been significant for a long time - why then has this not translated to actual significant support for the NBL? It is not like we have just had the Vietnam war and we have rescinded the White Australia policy yesterday - so why is there only 50k or so people watching? Also, if these conditions are and have been prevalent for such a long time, why are they now suddenly going to mean an increase in support of hundreds of thousands of people in this country?

For a person who wants to accuse somebody else of not understanding immigration, changing demographics and it’s impacts, why are you then presenting an argument that has such a basic flaw in its premise?

Btw I don’t have any skin in this game mate. I don’t mind both games. Simply the best predictor of the future is the past and the present - you actually have to see a trend in order to make a judgement on the future. Now, that doesn’t always mean that those predictions hold true but it is a lot more likely than suggesting something will happen in the future that has no predicator.

Once again you're using a strawman by claiming I said it will happen. I never said it is a certainty. I said it could happen. The Storm needed a lot of things to go right to get where they are today, but it happened and the rest is history.

To answer your question about why it might happen in the future when it hasn't in the past.

1. Cricket is no longer a religion in this country. I'm old enough to remember when the Test captain was almost as recognisable as the Prime Minister.

How many people can recognise and name the current Test captain?

2. ODIs and T20Is aren't even broadcast on FTA anymore. Ch9 gave up the rights. Unthinkable 20 or 30 years ago.

3. Australia has gone from controlling the cricket schedule to suit its interests in the 90s to doing whatever India tells it to do for extra broadcast money from India. Despite making this sacrifice the BBL is light years behind other T20 leagues. Domestic cricket was played in front of 2 blokes and a dog prior to BBL, so it's been in decline for some time.

This isn't good for the health of the game as the Sheffield SHIELD and ODD leagues are played all over the place and suspended to fit a declining BBL into the calendar. It's led to less skilled cricketers and a slide down the rankings. People don't support mediocre teams. Go see the Wallabies if you don't believe me.

4. The NBL is now targeting the Chinese and Philippino community and made concessions to get more players from these countries into the league. It is building interest within both communities. I suspect you'll ignore this like every other point I've raised.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You do know that China has a population of over 1.4 billion right?

China Population (2024) - Worldometer

Population of China: current, historical, and projected population, growth rate, immigration, median age, total fertility rate (TFR), population density, urbanization, urban population, country's share of world population, and global rank. Data tables, maps, charts, and live population clock

www.worldometers.info

it’s also quite hypocritical to use this as evidence of some burgeoning competition whilst at the same time arguing that a sport that is being watched by billions of people globally is somehow dying? It’s completely inconsistent.

Cricket is watched in large numbers in South Asia, where the combined population of India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh is close to 2 billion. Tests in Australia against these countries don't draw big crowds, do they?

Tests against India don’t draw and rate like the Ashes, despite India winning their last two series in Australia.

Outside of South Asia it's a small sport.

Only the Tests, T20Is and ODIs against India draw significant revenue from broadcast rights.

 

[Perth Red]

How did an NRL ratings thread turn into a cricket v basketball argument? So LU lol.

 

[Canard]

Player salaries were never as high as they are today. These days the salary cap is $1.7m and the current broadcast deal is the largest in history, at $45m over three seasons.



So?

I guess RL is f**ked then since Bris2, Adelaide, Perth, Newcastle2, Wollongong, Auckland and God knows how many Sydney teams failed around the same time the NBL lost the Devils, Supercats, Suns/Crocodiles, Rollers/Blaze, Falcons/Pirates and Cannons?

Of all the sports, the NBL is the only one that has a team in all six states that play out of quality facilities.

The salary cap isn't a measure of popularity.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The salary cap isn't a measure of popularity.

I'm old enough to remember the NBL in 1994. It's just as big today as it was then. The only difference is the growth today is organic, whereas back then it was built around kids being fascinated with America.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

How did an NRL ratings thread turn into a cricket v basketball argument? So LU lol.

Pretty much the same as you turning most threads you infect into anti PVL rants.

 

[Colk]

Once again you're using a strawman by claiming I said it will happen. I never said it is a certainty. I said it could happen. The Storm needed a lot of things to go right to get where they are today, but it happened and the rest is history.

To answer your question about why it might happen in the future when it hasn't in the past.

1. Cricket is no longer a religion in this country. I'm old enough to remember when the Test captain was almost as recognisable as the Prime Minister.

How many people can recognise and name the current Test captain?

2. ODIs and T20Is aren't even broadcast on FTA anymore. Ch9 gave up the rights. Unthinkable 20 or 30 years ago.

3. Australia has gone from controlling the cricket schedule to suit its interests in the 90s to doing whatever India tells it to do for extra broadcast money from India. Despite making this sacrifice the BBL is light years behind other T20 leagues. Domestic cricket was played in front of 2 blokes and a dog prior to BBL, so it's been in decline for some time.

This isn't good for the health of the game as the Sheffield SHIELD and ODD leagues are played all over the place and suspended to fit a declining BBL into the calendar. It's led to less skilled cricketers and a slide down the rankings. People don't support mediocre teams. Go see the Wallabies if you don't believe me.

4. The NBL is now targeting the Chinese and Philippino community and made concessions to get more players from these countries into the league. It is building interest within both communities. I suspect you'll ignore this like every other point I've raised.

Could implies possibility. I am saying that there is no possibility of it happening. I’ve reiterated this seemingly every post but you want to ignore that I am saying that for whatever reason.

1. First of all that is purely spectualative, but as a guess, considerably more likely than the NBL MVP for example.

2. And? They still show the game on a main channel. NBL is shown on Ten peach. Even the A-League is shown on Ten’s main channel.

3. Again personal opinion. Arguing that the standard of play has dropped is purely a personal viewpoint which has no relevance to the debate. You might like this competition and dislike another but that in itself is not an argument. Stick to the debate rather than confusing your own personal points on something which is extraneous to that debate: which is the NBL overtaking cricket as the number one summer sport and the possibility thereof.

Do you see the difference between what you are providing and what I am providing to this debate. I am not giving any opinion on the sports and the standard of play thereof. All I am giving you is numbers and facts. On any metrics provided (btw I am still waiting on some form of real actual evidence rather than anecdotal asides) cricket is considerably more popular than the NBL and based on the sheer difference in those numbers it is unrealistic to suggest that would change. If you can provide any evidence or data which you could then use to base a sensible projection wherein NBL could potentially usurp cricket as number one, then I am all ears.

4. That’s great. I thought they were naturally inclined to watch it though based on your original posts.

 

[Canard]

I'm old enough to remember the NBL in 1994. It's just as big today as it was then. The only difference is the growth today is organic, whereas back then it was built around kids being fascinated with America.

In TV coverage?
In average crowds?
In merchandise sales?

 

[Perth Red]

Pretty much the same as you turning most threads you infect into anti PVL rants.

now let me tell you about pistol pete seeing as you asked.......

 

[Wb1234]

FMD this is major thread drift

go discuss nbl on the relevant forum

it’s got no relevance to rugby league

your just feeding him at the point

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Could implies possibility. I am saying that there is no possibility of it happening. I’ve reiterated this seemingly every post but you want to ignore that I am saying that for whatever reason.

That's your opinion.

1. First of all that is purely spectualative, but as a guess, considerably more likely than the NBL MVP for example.

Here's an article from the ABC highlighting the game's declining participation and cultural relevance.

Summer in Australia used to mean cricket, but its relevance is changing - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

2. And? They still show the game on a main channel. NBL is shown on Ten peach. Even the A-League is shown on Ten’s main channel.

You said NBL wasn't on FTA at all and was only on streaming. You were wrong on both accounts.

Most A-League games are on 10Bold and it's only one game a week. Two NBL games are on 10Peach each Sunday . So that's another incorrect assumption you've dressed up as a fact.

3. Again personal opinion. Arguing that the standard of play has dropped is purely a personal viewpoint which has no relevance to the debate. You might like this competition and dislike another but that in itself is not an argument. Stick to the debate rather than confusing your own personal points on something which is extraneous to that debate: which is the NBL overtaking cricket as the number one summer sport and the possibility thereof.

Do you see the difference between what you are providing and what I am providing to this debate. I am not giving any opinion on the sports and the standard of play thereof. All I am giving you is numbers and facts. On any metrics provided (btw I am still waiting on some form of real actual evidence rather than anecdotal asides) cricket is considerably more popular than the NBL and based on the sheer difference in those numbers it is unrealistic to suggest that would change. If you can provide any evidence or data which you could then use to base a sensible projection wherein NBL could potentially usurp cricket as number one, then I am all ears.

You're not practicing what you preach. First you belittled the standard of the NBL and assumed it's of lower quality than the European competitions. That was an assumption you dressed up as fact as sit is demonstrably false, as the NBL is considered by many experts from the NBA clubs and commentators to be second only to the NBA in playing standard.

You also claimed Australia's best players head to Europe if they cannot get into the NBA. This is another incorrect assumption you dressed up as fact. The NBL has become the preferred pathway to the NBA for Australians, Asians, Americans and an increasing number of Europeans. There are plenty of experienced NBA players using the NBL to get back into the NBA and turning down bigger offers from Europe to do it.

You made these incorrect assumptions as "proof" that the NBL will always be a niche product in Australia. To sum it up, you don't know what you're talking about.

4. That’s great. I thought they were naturally inclined to watch it though based on your original posts.

Many of them do watch it and make up a very large segment of NBL fans. The Chinese and Philippino community in Australia is only going to get bigger through immigration. I don't see many of them at the cricket.