2023-2028 next tv deal discussion

[grobbelaar]

The gap in TV revenue is one thing, but as others have pointed out, there is a gap in sponsorship and membership revenue, and that gap has probably been there since both comps went national around 1988. It's very hard for any sport to make up that sort of gap, just look at rugby and soccer continuing to flounder.
For some historical context, exactly 100 years ago, the VFL was averaging home and away attendances of 18,400, at a time when Melbourne was a tiny village.
League has manged to breach an average of 16,400 three times in the last 17 years, and that's the very, very best it has ever managed, i.e. League has never even come close to matching the average attendance the VFL had 100 years ago.
It would appear that the resourcing gap has always existed.
Unsurprising when you consider that rugby split in two 114 years ago.
So of course the local game is going to have a resourcing advantage.

 

[baselinepanther]

The gap in TV revenue is one thing, but as others have pointed out, there is a gap in sponsorship and membership revenue, and that gap has probably been there since both comps went national around 1988. It's very hard for any sport to make up that sort of gap, just look at rugby and soccer continuing to flounder.
For some historical context, exactly 100 years ago, the VFL was averaging home and away attendances of 18,400, at a time when Melbourne was a tiny village.
League has manged to breach an average of 16,400 three times in the last 17 years, and that's the very, very best it has ever managed, i.e. League has never even come close to matching the average attendance the VFL had 100 years ago.
It would appear that the resourcing gap has always existed.
Unsurprising when you consider that rugby split in two 114 years ago.
So of course the local game is going to have a resourcing advantage.

Thats what you get when your game started in the most boring shithole on the planet

 

[Perth Red]

People are still arguing if we got screwed? Just lol.

$643mill to $402 mill. More than Double the biggest ever cash gap Between the codes.
just face it lads, which ever way you try and slice and dice it we got screwed.

 

[baselinepanther]

The gap in TV revenue is one thing, but as others have pointed out, there is a gap in sponsorship and membership revenue, and that gap has probably been there since both comps went national around 1988. It's very hard for any sport to make up that sort of gap, just look at rugby and soccer continuing to flounder.
For some historical context, exactly 100 years ago, the VFL was averaging home and away attendances of 18,400, at a time when Melbourne was a tiny village.
League has manged to breach an average of 16,400 three times in the last 17 years, and that's the very, very best it has ever managed, i.e. League has never even come close to matching the average attendance the VFL had 100 years ago.
It would appear that the resourcing gap has always existed.
Unsurprising when you consider that rugby split in two 114 years ago.
So of course the local game is going to have a resourcing advantage.

Mongbourne was a ...... tiny village .. in 1922 was it ?

it had a population of over 700K , not that much smaller then Sydney
oh & the average went from 18400 in 1922 , to 22300 50 years later in 1972 with the population more then tripled

cherry pick your stats all you want
we can't let the facts get in the way of a good wank eh

 

[Perth Red]

what do you mean you fumbling peanut ?
they did exactly the same thing

just except that the NRL & Vlandys completely out performed the aflol & gill the dill financially in these last 2 years
utterly
categorically

take of your singlet & join us in the real world

160 mill better then the fumles & bumbles in 21/22
off less income
while spending more on its clubs & grassroots

PVL is a magician

ok genius how did we achieve that surplus last year? I’ll give you a clue, it wasn’t through some amazing financial whizz kid leadership.

 

[Nerd]

Likely no competitive tension from Seven next time around to boost though, unless Seven develop their own streaming service in the meantime. Who knows what Paramount will be up to in 5 years. Nine/Stan will go hard though, so will Fox.

Seven will do the same as Nein did this and last time by making a token gesture solely aimed at making their opposition pay more than they have to for the rights.

 

[LeagueXIII]

I mean Packer used to say “you only get one alan bond in your lifetime”… I’m pretty sure Murdoch is saying “I get an alan bond every 5 years when I negotiate NRL TV rights”.

What an absolute dis

They have before though that’s the thing. News Ltd and Channel 9 couldn’t give a f*** about Rugby League and they have shown this on multiple occasions.

It is time for us to have some guts, create tension and force them to pay what it’s worth as they aren’t going to do it out of the kindness of their heart or because they spent a lot of money on fumbleball. Better yet, if they do lose it (News Ltd in particular) then they will know what it is worth.

Get rid of nine, ever since super league they have screwed our game.

 

[LeagueXIII]

The gap in TV revenue is one thing, but as others have pointed out, there is a gap in sponsorship and membership revenue, and that gap has probably been there since both comps went national around 1988. It's very hard for any sport to make up that sort of gap, just look at rugby and soccer continuing to flounder.
For some historical context, exactly 100 years ago, the VFL was averaging home and away attendances of 18,400, at a time when Melbourne was a tiny village.
League has manged to breach an average of 16,400 three times in the last 17 years, and that's the very, very best it has ever managed, i.e. League has never even come close to matching the average attendance the VFL had 100 years ago.
It would appear that the resourcing gap has always existed.
Unsurprising when you consider that rugby split in two 114 years ago.
So of course the local game is going to have a resourcing advantage.

Whilst you are correct re crowds and members, RL having never been big on memberships until now.
RL as far as TV broadcast deals and natonal sponsors was ahead of AFL in the early 90s under Quayle and Arko.
We were no.1 sport in Australia yet we know what happened next.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Sure you can’t bc you are an afl fan

but in the real world stan are going to help rugby league to a massive pay day

but hey you have a few years to enjoy the limelight

Stan is owned by Ch9. The same Ch9 that bullied V'landys into giving them a massive discount in 2020 so they could buy the broadcast rights for rugby union. Or as I like to call it, "onionball".

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Whilst you are correct re crowds and members, RL having never been big on memberships until now.
RL as far as TV broadcast deals and natonal sponsors was ahead of AFL in the early 90s under Quayle and Arko.
We were no.1 sport in Australia yet we now what happened next.

Arthurson and Quayle gave the PTV rights to Packer for free in 1992 in exchange for him paying $10m per annum for the FTA rights on Ch9. I think AwFuL was getting about $6m per annum at the time, but they didn't give their PTV rights away for free. Packer won big as he got the ARL for free on Optus Vision in 1995, 1996 and 1998. Murdoch created his own RL competition for Foxtel. We all know how that turned out for our game.

 

[The Penguin #6.]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/did-nine-bid-include-sacrificing-the-nrl/news-story/590c7a2324b53256629d77f28748531d

Nine’s audacious 11th-hour bid to wrest the AFL broadcast rights from Foxtel and Seven was ultimately too little, too late.
But according to sources close to the contract negotiations, Nine’s pitch – which was tabled over the weekend by the network’s chief executive Mike Sneesby – provoked a conversation about how Nine could possibly juggle holding both NRL and AFL rights given the certain clash of key games each weekend.

It was unclear how Nine would satisfactorily broadcast blockbuster AFL games on Thursday and Friday nights when it is already committed to airing NRL matches at the same time.

Nine categorically denies it considered dropping its long-term commitment to the NRL.

However, industry sources, who were stunned when Nine walked away from its decades-long partnership with Cricket Australia in favour of tennis four years ago, suggest the question must have been raised in the negotiations over AFL rights.

It’s understood Nine was eyeing off the rights to the AFL as a means to establish its streaming platform Stan as a player in the competitive sports streaming market.

As it stands, Stan is without the streaming rights to either major football code in Australia, which is a significant impairment to its push to be commercially competitive with Foxtel and its sports streaming platform Kayo, which have the broadcast rights to both AFL and NRL. Having failed to secure a top tier winter code, Stan’s main sports offerings are rugby union, Indycar, and the Australian Open tennis in January.

Asked if Nine had considered dumping its long-term commitment to the NRL in favour of the AFL broadcast rights, a spokesperson for the network said: “Absolutely not.”

Nine have shown their hand and what they`re prepared to pay to get people to sign up to Stan, if it`s numbers they`re after League can give it to them.
Would seem only our pathetic devotion to Foxtel now that is holding us back.

 

[Colk]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/did-nine-bid-include-sacrificing-the-nrl/news-story/590c7a2324b53256629d77f28748531d

Nine’s audacious 11th-hour bid to wrest the AFL broadcast rights from Foxtel and Seven was ultimately too little, too late.
But according to sources close to the contract negotiations, Nine’s pitch – which was tabled over the weekend by the network’s chief executive Mike Sneesby – provoked a conversation about how Nine could possibly juggle holding both NRL and AFL rights given the certain clash of key games each weekend.

It was unclear how Nine would satisfactorily broadcast blockbuster AFL games on Thursday and Friday nights when it is already committed to airing NRL matches at the same time.

Nine categorically denies it considered dropping its long-term commitment to the NRL.

However, industry sources, who were stunned when Nine walked away from its decades-long partnership with Cricket Australia in favour of tennis four years ago, suggest the question must have been raised in the negotiations over AFL rights.

It’s understood Nine was eyeing off the rights to the AFL as a means to establish its streaming platform Stan as a player in the competitive sports streaming market.

As it stands, Stan is without the streaming rights to either major football code in Australia, which is a significant impairment to its push to be commercially competitive with Foxtel and its sports streaming platform Kayo, which have the broadcast rights to both AFL and NRL. Having failed to secure a top tier winter code, Stan’s main sports offerings are rugby union, Indycar, and the Australian Open tennis in January.

Asked if Nine had considered dumping its long-term commitment to the NRL in favour of the AFL broadcast rights, a spokesperson for the network said: “Absolutely not.”

Nine have shown their hand and what they`re prepared to pay to get people to sign up to Stan, if it`s numbers they`re after League can give it to them.
Would seem only our pathetic devotion to Foxtel now that is holding us back.

I would read that article a completely different way. Sounds like they were ready to drop us at the first hat.

 

[The Penguin #6.]

I would read that article a completely different way. Sounds like they were ready to drop us at the first hat.

Hard to disagree with that but having missed out on fumbleball we are the only other major Australian sport left if they want to grow Stan. Again I wonder if having sold our rights first has come back to bite us on the bum, Nine was saving their money for fumbleball.

 

[Colk]

Hard to disagree with that but having missed out on fumbleball we are the only other major Australian sport left if they want to grow Stan. Again I wonder if having sold our rights first has come back to bite us on the bum, Nine was saving their money for fumbleball.

Of course they were. They have always bid for fumbleball. Remember they didn’t have enough money to up their offer?

 

[The_Wookie]

Whilst you are correct re crowds and members, RL having never been big on memberships until now.
RL as far as TV broadcast deals and natonal sponsors was ahead of AFL in the early 90s under Quayle and Arko.
We were no.1 sport in Australia yet we now what happened next.

Im not sure any of that is actually true. It wasnt ahead on tv broadcast deals in the 90s - aside from 1991 and 1992. If Ten had been able to afford its 48m 3 year deal in 1989 then yes this might have been true - but they couldnt and Nine ended up taking them for 6.5m a year. Packer then locked up a 7 year deal at 10m pa in 1993.

• 1984. Nine posts a record fee for rugby league rights, estimated at 1.5m over 3 years, beating bids from Seven and Ten.,
• 1989. Ten pays 48 million for a 3 year deal to broadcast the NSWRL competition.
• 1990. Nine took this over to pay 6.5m p.a. for 3 years for both Origin and the NSWRL – selling back the NSWRL to Ten for 4m a year. (International Sports Economics Comparisons, Fizel pg 111)
• 1993. Nine signs a 7 year, 10 million p.a deal for the NSWRL including Friday nights, Sunday afternoons, Challenge Cup, Commonwealth Bank Cup and all representative matches. This includes Pay TV rights.
• 1995. Federal court is told of a “keep off the grass” arrangement between tv networks enabling Nine to get the 1994-2000 ARL rights almost unimpeded, and for less than they might otherwise have paid.

At the same time.

• 1985 – Ch7 pay 3.5 million for 1986 tv rights
• 1986 – Ch7 offer 2.7 million for 1987 season, offer rejected by the VFL
• 1986 – Broadcoms offer is accepted after exceeding the 1985 amount, rights onsold to ABC for 1.5 million
• 1986 – Ch7 rating plummet, offers broadcom 9 million to win rights back
• 1987 – Ch7 pays $6 million a year ($30 million) for 5 years from 1988 – 1992
• 1992 – Ch7 pays $17 million a year for 1993 – 1998 (100 million)
• 1998 – Ch7 Pays $40 million a year for rights to 2001

 

[LeagueXIII]

Im not sure any of that is actually true. It wasnt ahead on tv broadcast deals in the 90s - aside from 1991 and 1992. If Ten had been able to afford its 48m 5 year deal in 1989 then yes this might have been true - but they couldnt and Nine ended up taking them for 6.5m a year. Packer then locked up a 7 year deal at 10m pa in 1993.

• 1984. Nine posts a record fee for rugby league rights, estimated at 1.5m over 3 years, beating bids from Seven and Ten.,
• 1989. Ten pays 48 million for a 5 year deal to broadcast the NSWRL competition.
• 1990. Nine took this over to pay 6.5m p.a. for 3 years for both Origin and the NSWRL – selling back the NSWRL to Ten for 4m a year. (International Sports Economics Comparisons, Fizel pg 111)
• 1993. Nine signs a 7 year, 10 million p.a deal for the NSWRL including Friday nights, Sunday afternoons, Challenge Cup, Commonwealth Bank Cup and all representative matches. This includes Pay TV rights.
• 1995. Federal court is told of a “keep off the grass” arrangement between tv networks enabling Nine to get the 1994-2000 ARL rights almost unimpeded, and for less than they might otherwise have paid.

At the same time.

• 1985 – Ch7 pay 3.5 million for 1986 tv rights
• 1986 – Ch7 offer 2.7 million for 1987 season, offer rejected by the VFL
• 1986 – Broadcoms offer is accepted after exceeding the 1985 amount, rights onsold to ABC for 1.5 million
• 1986 – Ch7 rating plummet, offers broadcom 9 million to win rights back
• 1987 – Ch7 pays $6 million a year ($30 million) for 5 years from 1988 – 1992
• 1992 – Ch7 pays $17 million a year for 1993 – 1998 (100 million)
• 1998 – Ch7 Pays $40 million a year for rights to 2001

I was reading the SMH from 1990 that last TEN deal was only 3 seasons.

 

[LeagueXIII]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/did-nine-bid-include-sacrificing-the-nrl/news-story/590c7a2324b53256629d77f28748531d

Nine’s audacious 11th-hour bid to wrest the AFL broadcast rights from Foxtel and Seven was ultimately too little, too late.
But according to sources close to the contract negotiations, Nine’s pitch – which was tabled over the weekend by the network’s chief executive Mike Sneesby – provoked a conversation about how Nine could possibly juggle holding both NRL and AFL rights given the certain clash of key games each weekend.

It was unclear how Nine would satisfactorily broadcast blockbuster AFL games on Thursday and Friday nights when it is already committed to airing NRL matches at the same time.

Nine categorically denies it considered dropping its long-term commitment to the NRL.

However, industry sources, who were stunned when Nine walked away from its decades-long partnership with Cricket Australia in favour of tennis four years ago, suggest the question must have been raised in the negotiations over AFL rights.

It’s understood Nine was eyeing off the rights to the AFL as a means to establish its streaming platform Stan as a player in the competitive sports streaming market.

As it stands, Stan is without the streaming rights to either major football code in Australia, which is a significant impairment to its push to be commercially competitive with Foxtel and its sports streaming platform Kayo, which have the broadcast rights to both AFL and NRL. Having failed to secure a top tier winter code, Stan’s main sports offerings are rugby union, Indycar, and the Australian Open tennis in January.

Asked if Nine had considered dumping its long-term commitment to the NRL in favour of the AFL broadcast rights, a spokesperson for the network said: “Absolutely not.”

Nine have shown their hand and what they`re prepared to pay to get people to sign up to Stan, if it`s numbers they`re after League can give it to them.
Would seem only our pathetic devotion to Foxtel now that is holding us back.

True, what other sport can give them big numbers of viewers in Sydney, Brisbane, Newcastle, Northern Qld, canbera, country NSW even into Melbourne.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Mongbourne was a ...... tiny village .. in 1922 was it ?

it had a population of over 700K , not that much smaller then Sydney
oh & the average went from 18400 in 1922 , to 22300 50 years later in 1972 with the population more then tripled

cherry pick your stats all you want
we can't let the facts get in the way of a good wank eh

And everyone lived on Punt Rd

 

[The_Wookie]

I was reading the SMH from 1990 that last TEN deal was only 3 seasons.

yeah typo there. fixed.

 

[Perth Red]

gap between tv deals (cash and contra). All in AFL’s favour
2008 $73mill (game under conflicted ownership)
2013 $25mill first arlc deal
2017 $31mill the smith gate deal
2023 $21mill vlandys new deal
2025 $191mill afl new deal