2023 Grand Final Panthers vs Broncos

[Todd Hoffman]

Pumpkin, go away!

He will only go away if people don't respond.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm just looking at things factually. Nobody is acknowledging my point, just becoming defensive. You must admit I have a point atleast.

Let’s look at your post rationally.

is Penrith a good system? Undoubtedly. Makes players look better than they are.

Does that make Cleary average? Definitely not. Has won multiple man of the match awards at SOO level. Won the Clive Churchill after the Panthers system had broken down in the 23 GF. Was very good at the 22 RLWC.

The perspective of Cleary at rep level suffers from how good he has been at club level. We have never seen as dominant a half as we have seen from Cleary over the past 4 years (plus the start of this year) in a club side. Class and consistency. The great thing from a Penrith perspective is he is still quite young so we have many years left to enjoy it.

He has been good but not as dominant or consistent at Origin level. But he is still quite young and the people that he is compared against (Johns, Thurston, etc) didn’t do anything at Origin level till they were much older than what Cleary is now.

 

[MugaB]

The point I'm making is that the Penrith system makes players look better than they are. You can't dispute that. We've seen it with players who have filled in for Cleary. We have further evidence to suggest Cleary is an average player. He hasn't performed well outside of the Penrith system. The danger here is that they keep picking him to play for NSW when Adam Reynolds is a better choice.

Hahahahaha reynolds is the most useless choice for NSW, I'd rather have moses than have brokeback reynolds get carted off 5 mins into an origin series,
You really are a pumpkin, mate picking halfbacks who are a defensive liability is plain dumb, nathan and moses can at least hold their own in defence and not get trampled over and still do their job, Reynolds would need a ly down with a nanna nap after nanai runs past him

 

[Panther Mike]

Because, as we have seen, any no name halfback who replaces Cleary in the Penrith team, suddenly plays like a super star. There's something magical about the Penrith system that noone understands.

So you have to look at how he plays outside of Penrith, for example in origin and all his performances have been mediocre.

That's false because he has won 2 man of the match awards, in Game 2 of 2020 and in Game 2 of 2022. I'd concede that his performances in the tight games which went down to the wire have been average though and that he hasn't stood out. Cleary's issue in Origin has been not being able to lift a Blues side struggling or when the pack gets dominated.

 

[Pumpkin]

Thanks for well thought out responses.I'm a Cleary fan and I always want him to do well, so where am I coming from? I guess my nose was out of joint because I thought the Roosters would beat Penrith finally, with many key players out, including Cleary. But nope. The machine just kept rolling on. It started making me wonder if anyone could play for Penrith and look good. Then I started wondering about Cleary and if he's really as good as people think, or is he just benefitting from playing for Penrith and it's making him look better than he is.

 

[murraymob]

We

Thanks for well thought out responses.I'm a Cleary fan and I always want him to do well, so where am I coming from? I guess my nose was out of joint because I thought the Roosters would beat Penrith finally, with many key players out, including Cleary. But nope. The machine just kept rolling on. It started making me wonder if anyone could play for Penrith and look good. Then I started wondering about Cleary and if he's really as good as people think, or is he just benefitting from playing for Penrith and it's making him look better than he is.

Well I could play for them and never look good .So not a valid arguments

 

[Chins get the wins]

We

Well I could play for them and never look good .So not a valid arguments

I'd back you over Pumpkin

 

[Pumpkin]

I'd back you over Pumpkin

I was a pretty good football player.

 

[Old and Disgruntled]

I was a pretty good football player.

Cauliflower ears with pumpkin?