2023 TV/Fox/Streaming Ratings

[The_Wookie]

semantics count ...

not really in this case. But either way, i wouldnt make a definitive call. seem some big jumps in consolidated data at times, especially where matches run over time.

 

[The_Wookie]

Wookiees a good guy

but someone asked a question about the hours of each sport so I gave my answer

even if he wants to talk up afl on his Twitter that’s fine

Ive talked up the NRL a fair bit lately too.

i wasn’t attacking him per se

and I’m sure the extra traffic on his Twitter will have a monetary benefit lol

I make not a cent from twitter.

 

[docbrown]

The NRL and AFL know all of their TV and streaming numbers. They use that data to attract advertisers etc. The only use for fans for collating the numbers is merely for chat purposes on sports forums. It serves no higher function.

But in that regard it should be bleeding obvious that NRL and AFL are miles ahead of other sporting club competitions. Also for AFL’s talk of being a national code, their ratings in Sydney and Brisbane aren’t great, hence why they’re still relegated to digital channels. Neither is the NRL’s Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide ratings. That divide is still there. However, going head to head in a given random timeslot, on most occasions you’d expect a random NRL game to outrate the equivalent AFL game. So what does that truly say about the AFL’s ‘national game’ status? This is what decades of having the Swans, Lions, GWS and Suns has gotten them, which is albeit to say, not much.

Also the AFL has 18 Australian based teams. The NRL has only this gained a 16th this year. Those 16 NRL teams clearly have a greater appeal television-wise than the 18 AFL teams. So what happens to the gap when 2 new Australian NRL teams are introduced?

And while in the past I would have said that game length was a major factor in future broadcast rights due to the increase in potential ad sales for networks, that importance is decreasing every single year. If anything people are becoming more time poor and wanting more ad-free services. Why do you think cricket was desperate to get Big Bash off the ground? Test cricket has the longest ‘viewing hours’ so if that was the main litmus test they’d rake in the most $$$ but fewer people can sit around and watch a game all day long. The NRL’s game structure is highly suited for premium ad-free subscription broadcasting. There are fewer stoppages once the game gets started. Over time, you’ll see the advantage that AFL has with viewing hours will actually start to work against it, particularly as a 10th game will likely cause yet another timeslot clash.

 

[Perth Red]

Why doesnt NRL draw similar FTA audience in Sydney as AFL in Melbourne? Have more fans switched to Fox in Sydney than have for AFL in Melbourne? If so is that being driven by ch9's crap covg and only 3 NRL games a week on FTA?

 

[The_Wookie]

The NRL and AFL know all of their TV and streaming numbers. They use that data to attract advertisers etc. The only use for fans for collating the numbers is merely for chat purposes on sports forums. It serves no higher function.

But in that regard it should be bleeding obvious that NRL and AFL are miles ahead of other sporting club competitions. Also for AFL’s talk of being a national code, their ratings in Sydney and Brisbane aren’t great, hence why they’re still relegated to digital channels. Neither is the NRL’s Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide ratings. That divide is still there. However, going head to head in a given random timeslot, on most occasions you’d expect a random NRL game to outrate the equivalent AFL game. So what does that truly say about the AFL’s ‘national game’ status? This is what decades of having the Swans, Lions, GWS and Suns has gotten them, which is albeit to say, not much.

Also the AFL has 18 Australian based teams. The NRL has only this gained a 16th this year. Those 16 NRL teams clearly have a greater appeal television-wise than the 18 AFL teams. So what happens to the gap when 2 new Australian NRL teams are introduced?

And while in the past I would have said that game length was a major factor in future broadcast rights due to the increase in potential ad sales for networks, that importance is decreasing every single year. If anything people are becoming more time poor and wanting more ad-free services. Why do you think cricket was desperate to get Big Bash off the ground? Test cricket has the longest ‘viewing hours’ so if that was the main litmus test they’d rake in the most $$$ but fewer people can sit around and watch a game all day long. The NRL’s game structure is highly suited for premium ad-free subscription broadcasting. There are fewer stoppages once the game gets started. Over time, you’ll see the advantage that AFL has with viewing hours will actually start to work against it, particularly as a 10th game will likely cause yet another timeslot clash.

great post.
Nothing here I disagree with. The AFLs game length already works against it with the 9th game clash on Saturdays and sometimes even Sundays. Refusal to play Sunday nights (clubs arced up - particularly Collingwood - as it affects attendances) or Monday nights (same reason) might have to change.

 

[Pneuma]

great post.
Nothing here I disagree with. The AFLs game length already works against it with the 9th game clash on Saturdays and sometimes even Sundays,.

100%

 

[docbrown]

great post.
Nothing here I disagree with. The AFLs game length already works against it with the 9th game clash on Saturdays and sometimes even Sundays. Refusal to play Sunday nights (clubs arced up - particularly Collingwood - as it affects attendances) or Monday nights (same reason) might have to change.

Well that’s the balance to be struck but ultimately what drives revenue returns more? Gate receipts or broadcasting rights?

I can’t see a Sunday night post 7:30 game happening on FTA unless a network has rights to both codes. But on subscription services for Sunday night the AFL’s failure is the NRL’s gain.

 

[Perth Red]

Well that’s the balance to be struck but ultimately what drives revenue returns more? Gate receipts or broadcasting rights?

I can’t see a Sunday night post 7:30 game happening on FTA unless a network has rights to both codes. But on subscription services for Sunday night the AFL’s failure is the NRL’s gain.

If you've got big crowds its attendances for clubs.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well that’s the balance to be struck but ultimately what drives revenue returns more? Gate receipts or broadcasting rights?

Broadcasters would prefer the individual slots, Sunday and Monday night rated well for the league. However the clubs hated it and attendances suffered, Mclachlan said at the time that the league had to walk a fine line between preserving the attendances and appeasing the broadcasters.

For half the clubs in the league the revenue from gate and memberships is higher than the distribution from the AFL (which includes media rights)

Club	Distributions (millions)	Members/Gate (millions)
Gold Coast	27.248	6.384
Brisbane	23.063	10.344
St Kilda	22.661	10.849
North Melbourne	19.764	6.69
Sydney	17.619	16.44
Western Bulldogs	17.064	12.353
Melbourne	17.966	19.813
Geelong	15.95	19.603
Carlton	14.538	20.069
West Coast	13.455	33.844
Essendon	12.879	20.188
Fremantle	12.449	26.241
Collingwood	12.204	28.178
Richmond	11.718	28.649
Hawthorn	11.318	17.81

I can’t see a Sunday night post 7:30 game happening on FTA unless a network has rights to both codes. But on subscription services for Sunday night the AFL’s failure is the NRL’s gain.

yeah I agree 100%

 

[docbrown]

Broadcasters would prefer the individual slots, Sunday and Monday night rated well for the league. However the clubs hated it and attendances suffered, Mclachlan said at the time that the league had to walk a fine line between preserving the attendances and appeasing the broadcasters.

For half the clubs in the league the revenue from gate and memberships is higher than the distribution from the AFL (which includes media rights)

Club	Distributions (millions)	Members/Gate (millions)
Gold Coast	27.248	6.384
Brisbane	23.063	10.344
St Kilda	22.661	10.849
North Melbourne	19.764	6.69
Sydney	17.619	16.44
Western Bulldogs	17.064	12.353
Melbourne	17.966	19.813
Geelong	15.95	19.603
Carlton	14.538	20.069
West Coast	13.455	33.844
Essendon	12.879	20.188
Fremantle	12.449	26.241
Collingwood	12.204	28.178
Richmond	11.718	28.649
Hawthorn	11.318	17.81

yeah I agree 100%

Yeah well that’s what I mean. There’s a balance to be struck. TV networks would pretty much love to show AFL and NRL every day if they could but who’s showing up on Tuesday night at the stadium? So the compromise is to stick to the weekends, Friday and one other week night.

That said if the NRL gets a second NZ team to cover an early Friday slot (which is 8pm in NZ) so it doesn’t affect crowds, it might be possible for NRL to have both a Thursday and Monday game without affecting crowds too severely.

 

[Wb1234]

Yep I’ve been called that

The NRL and AFL know all of their TV and streaming numbers. They use that data to attract advertisers etc. The only use for fans for collating the numbers is merely for chat purposes on sports forums. It serves no higher function.

But in that regard it should be bleeding obvious that NRL and AFL are miles ahead of other sporting club competitions. Also for AFL’s talk of being a national code, their ratings in Sydney and Brisbane aren’t great, hence why they’re still relegated to digital channels. Neither is the NRL’s Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide ratings. That divide is still there. However, going head to head in a given random timeslot, on most occasions you’d expect a random NRL game to outrate the equivalent AFL game. So what does that truly say about the AFL’s ‘national game’ status? This is what decades of having the Swans, Lions, GWS and Suns has gotten them, which is albeit to say, not much.

Also the AFL has 18 Australian based teams. The NRL has only this gained a 16th this year. Those 16 NRL teams clearly have a greater appeal television-wise than the 18 AFL teams. So what happens to the gap when 2 new Australian NRL teams are introduced?

And while in the past I would have said that game length was a major factor in future broadcast rights due to the increase in potential ad sales for networks, that importance is decreasing every single year. If anything people are becoming more time poor and wanting more ad-free services. Why do you think cricket was desperate to get Big Bash off the ground? Test cricket has the longest ‘viewing hours’ so if that was the main litmus test they’d rake in the most $$$ but fewer people can sit around and watch a game all day long. The NRL’s game structure is highly suited for premium ad-free subscription broadcasting. There are fewer stoppages once the game gets started. Over time, you’ll see the advantage that AFL has with viewing hours will actually start to work against it, particularly as a 10th game will likely cause yet another timeslot clash.

That’s the docbrown I remember from before

bravo

 

[Wb1234]

Broadcasters would prefer the individual slots, Sunday and Monday night rated well for the league. However the clubs hated it and attendances suffered, Mclachlan said at the time that the league had to walk a fine line between preserving the attendances and appeasing the broadcasters.

For half the clubs in the league the revenue from gate and memberships is higher than the distribution from the AFL (which includes media rights)

Club	Distributions (millions)	Members/Gate (millions)
Gold Coast	27.248	6.384
Brisbane	23.063	10.344
St Kilda	22.661	10.849
North Melbourne	19.764	6.69
Sydney	17.619	16.44
Western Bulldogs	17.064	12.353
Melbourne	17.966	19.813
Geelong	15.95	19.603
Carlton	14.538	20.069
West Coast	13.455	33.844
Essendon	12.879	20.188
Fremantle	12.449	26.241
Collingwood	12.204	28.178
Richmond	11.718	28.649
Hawthorn	11.318	17.81

yeah I agree 100%

Interesting table

west coast is an eye opener

both west coast clubs really

 

[The Penguin #6.]

Tbh it would never occur to me the length of a game meant anything as far as ratings go. To me tv ratings for a show simply are a measure of how many people watched it as an average over the length of the show. Wookies point, I think, is that it does matter to 9 and 7 etc as it affects the advertising dollar. The more ads you can cram in the better the returns in $. As such we will never get the same tv deal when our game is condensed into a shorter package.

Why ? if our games rates more, then theoretically competition between advertisers in the reduced time available should mean that they pay more for the fewer available spots.

 

[Wb1234]

Why ? if our games rates more, then theoretically competition between advertisers in the reduced time available should mean that they pay more for the fewer available spots.

I’m willing to say game length makes some difference

but the big factor for the nrl is ooor bargaining position and a weak commission vs afl with a strong commission and clubs which support it fully

nrl desperately needs another bidder for the pay tv rights (stan?)

it’s the only way foxtel will ever pay us our worth

given our ratings if afl is getting 300 million pa from foxtel we should be getting at least 400 million pa if not more

 

[Iamback]

The NRL and AFL know all of their TV and streaming numbers. They use that data to attract advertisers etc. The only use for fans for collating the numbers is merely for chat purposes on sports forums. It serves no higher function.

But in that regard it should be bleeding obvious that NRL and AFL are miles ahead of other sporting club competitions. Also for AFL’s talk of being a national code, their ratings in Sydney and Brisbane aren’t great, hence why they’re still relegated to digital channels. Neither is the NRL’s Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide ratings. That divide is still there. However, going head to head in a given random timeslot, on most occasions you’d expect a random NRL game to outrate the equivalent AFL game. So what does that truly say about the AFL’s ‘national game’ status? This is what decades of having the Swans, Lions, GWS and Suns has gotten them, which is albeit to say, not much.

Also the AFL has 18 Australian based teams. The NRL has only this gained a 16th this year. Those 16 NRL teams clearly have a greater appeal television-wise than the 18 AFL teams. So what happens to the gap when 2 new Australian NRL teams are introduced?

And while in the past I would have said that game length was a major factor in future broadcast rights due to the increase in potential ad sales for networks, that importance is decreasing every single year. If anything people are becoming more time poor and wanting more ad-free services. Why do you think cricket was desperate to get Big Bash off the ground? Test cricket has the longest ‘viewing hours’ so if that was the main litmus test they’d rake in the most $$$ but fewer people can sit around and watch a game all day long. The NRL’s game structure is highly suited for premium ad-free subscription broadcasting. There are fewer stoppages once the game gets started. Over time, you’ll see the advantage that AFL has with viewing hours will actually start to work against it, particularly as a 10th game will likely cause yet another timeslot clash.

Cricket does very well for a 2 month period.

Some good points here, On the length though even if people tune out at half time of AFL.

They have still watching 60 mins of content, Including 2 ad breaks.

The AFL Super Sat starts at 1 and goes longer than the NRL version. That is an extra 2 hours of content Fox League needs to find

So I think it will always be worth more

 

[Iamback]

Why ? if our games rates more, then theoretically competition between advertisers in the reduced time available should mean that they pay more for the fewer available spots.

You never get true AFL ratings though, Different cities have different games.

Fox would know who is watching what though, Just keep it secret

 

[Iamback]

I’m willing to say game length makes some difference

but the big factor for the nrl is ooor bargaining position and a weak commission vs afl with a strong commission and clubs which support it fully

nrl desperately needs another bidder for the pay tv rights (stan?)

it’s the only way foxtel will ever pay us our worth

given our ratings if afl is getting 300 million pa from foxtel we should be getting at least 400 million pa if not more

As Politis and PVL said content is king. That is what holds the game back

 

[Iamback]

You’re also assuming ad rates are the same on fox for league and afl when more than likely league will have higher rates

AFL has 200-300% more ads though and the ratings aren't that much apart. Hence more ad revenue is made from AFL + more content is why they get more

 

[Perth Red]

AFL has 200-300% more ads though and the ratings aren't that much apart. Hence more ad revenue is made from AFL + more content is why they get more

20 clubs, and maybe qtrs would sort that.
Having said that the gap in previous tv deal wasn’t huge Given 9 games v. 8.

This deal is an anomaly created by Vlandys sht dealing and some extraordinary rights competition for afl rights Driving up their price.

Without competition it would likey have been nearer $475mill afl and nrl around $450mill if vlandys wasn’t a dck.

 

[Wb1234]

20 clubs, and maybe qtrs would sort that.
Having said that the gap in previous tv deal wasn’t huge Given 9 games v. 8.

This deal is an anomaly created by Vlandys sht dealing and some extraordinary rights competition for afl rights Driving up their price.

Without competition it would likey have been nearer $475mill afl and nrl around $450mill if vlandys wasn’t a dck.

20 clubs yes
Quarters no