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4th Test: Australia v India at Adelaide Jan 24-28, 2012

Chip Bayless

Juniors
Messages
655
I'd rest Siddle, he has played every test since Sri Lanka so surely if anyone needs a breather in a dead rubber it's him.

Good call. Haven't considered as Siddle comes across as one who you would have to chain to the seat so he didn't run out and play. Definitely merit to idea. He has earned a spell no doubt.
 

Horrie Is God

First Grade
Messages
8,073
I love test cricket..

The game is still a week & a half away..it's a dead rubber..And we've already got over 60 posts in this thread..

How much discussion will we have in the 20/20 threads??..
 

yappy

Bench
Messages
4,161
The comparisons between Johnson and Starc will continue for the simple reason that there are a lot of genuine similarities between them. The fact there are also differences can't mask the fact that Starc can bowl too short, too often, and that he doesn't have great control. I agree Starc should be a better bowler than Johnson because his action is far smoother and repeatable, but he ain't there yet.

I actually hope Billy pulls out some old tapes of Bruce Reid for Starc to study. He's obviously a bit quicker than Bruce (and hopefully won't require the roll of sticky tape), but he has a similar easy approach and high release. If he can learn to bowl the lines and lengths that Reid used to bowl, landing it around off stump with either a hint of inswing or nipping it off the seam away towards the slips he'll be a great bowler. He's already shown glimpses of the ability to get one to lift off a good length (as he should with his height), but he's bowling far too much two lengths for me and not maintaining a good enough line to keep the batsmen in two minds about leaving. Very much a work in progress, but progress that belongs more in the Shield than the test arena at this stage.
 
Last edited:

Chip Bayless

Juniors
Messages
655
I love test cricket..

The game is still a week & a half away..it's a dead rubber..And we've already got over 60 posts in this thread..

How much discussion will we have in the 20/20 threads??..

+1

I love all forms to the game, T20 has a place in our game in my opinion too. A lot of split views there I am sure ;-)
 

yappy

Bench
Messages
4,161
I love test cricket..

The game is still a week & a half away..it's a dead rubber..And we've already got over 60 posts in this thread..

How much discussion will we have in the 20/20 threads??..

There are 20/20 threads?

Siddle will get his rest after Adelaide. Wouldn't surprise if he and Hilf were made unavailable for the first round of Shield after the BB.
 

Chip Bayless

Juniors
Messages
655
The comparisons between Johnson and Starc will continue for the simple reason that there are a lot of genuine similarities between them. The fact there are also differences can't mask the fact that Starc can bowl too short, too often, and that he doesn't have great control. I agree Starc should be a better bowler than Johnson because his action is far smoother and repeatable, but he ain't there yet.

I actually hope Billy pulls out some old tapes of Bruce Reid for Starc to study. He's obviously a bit quicker than Bruce (and hopefully won't require the roll of sticky tape), but he has a similar easy approach and high release. If he can learn to bowl the lines and lengths that Reid used to bowl, landing it around off stump with either a hint of inswing or nipping it off the seam away towards the slips he'll be a great bowler. He's already shown glimpses of the ability to get one to lift off a good length (as he should with his height), but he's bowling far too much too lengths for me and not maintaining a good enough line to keep the batsmen in two minds about leaving. Very much a work in progress, but progress that belongs more in the Shield than the test arena at this stage.

Nice summary. Hard to argue. :clap: Starc is 21, plenty of time. If he keeps making each opportunity a winner like he did in Perth, he won't be ignored.

Spot on re: Starc action. This if anything is why I believe he will be a better bowler and why the ceiling is higher for Starc at Test level.
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
The comparisons between Johnson and Starc will continue for the simple reason that there are a lot of genuine similarities between them. The fact there are also differences can't mask the fact that Starc can bowl too short, too often, and that he doesn't have great control. I agree Starc should be a better bowler than Johnson because his action is far smoother and repeatable, but he ain't there yet.

Starc control is relatively good. Apart from his debut where he got spanked around he has been under the 3 an over mark in 3 out of 4 innings. He may be sending some wayward deliveries here and there but to go under 3 an over in 3 out of 4 innings shows he isn't producing too many bad balls waiting to be dispatched.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
I love test cricket..

The game is still a week & a half away..it's a dead rubber..And we've already got over 60 posts in this thread..

How much discussion will we have in the 20/20 threads??..
me too! Give me test cricket or give death.

I have strong negative feelings about T20 though, but I recognise it as a thing in the cricket world, despite it not being real cricket at all
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
I think it should only be for the retired people
It's actually pretty bad for kids and puts them off playing cricket
 

TheParraboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
68,997
I actually hope Billy pulls out some old tapes of Bruce Reid for Starc to study. He's obviously a bit quicker than Bruce (and hopefully won't require the roll of sticky tape), but he has a similar easy approach and high release. If he can learn to bowl the lines and lengths that Reid used to bowl, landing it around off stump with either a hint of inswing or nipping it off the seam away towards the slips he'll be a great bowler. He's already shown glimpses of the ability to get one to lift off a good length (as he should with his height), but he's bowling far too much two lengths for me and not maintaining a good enough line to keep the batsmen in two minds about leaving. Very much a work in progress, but progress that belongs more in the Shield than the test arena at this stage.

I actually hope Billy pulls out some Johnson tapes as well, to cover both sides of the pond so to speak
 

Horrie Is God

First Grade
Messages
8,073
Test cricket is like having a meal at a really good restaurant..

20/20 is like getting Maccas..or should that be KFC..
 

yappy

Bench
Messages
4,161
Starc control is relatively good. Apart from his debut where he got spanked around he has been under the 3 an over mark in 3 out of 4 innings. He may be sending some wayward deliveries here and there but to go under 3 an over in 3 out of 4 innings shows he isn't producing too many bad balls waiting to be dispatched.

Relatively good compared to Johnson, sure. He went ok in Perth, but like I said, so did Johnson last year. The conditions were perfect for him. Similarly in Hobart it was a bowler's pitch, although his economy there from my recollection was less to do with him bowling tight lines than the Kiwis refusing to chase too many really shit balls.

I've certainly never said that Starc can't or won't be a good bowler one day. But we have better options at the present and I wouldn't rely on him as part of a three man pace attack. Doubly so on a pitch like Adelaide that won't be as conducive to bowlers as the other pitches we've seen this summer.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
Test cricket is like having a meal at a really good restaurant..

20/20 is like getting Maccas..or should that be KFC..
disagree, if Test cricket is like having a meal at a really good restaurant, then T20 is more like eating people's leftovers from a dumpster. If you're no accustomed to real food, then you like it for sustenance, but if you are, you're repulsed by the thought of it
 

Horrie Is God

First Grade
Messages
8,073
disagree, if Test cricket is like having a meal at a really good restaurant, then T20 is more like eating people's leftovers from a dumpster. If you're no accustomed to real food, then you like it for sustenance, but if you are, you're repulsed by the thought of it

That's what Maccas tastes like to me..
 

Chip Bayless

Juniors
Messages
655
Test cricket is like having a meal at a really good restaurant..

20/20 is like getting Maccas..or should that be KFC..

Good analogy. I don't think administrators try and sell T20 as anything but an fast alternative recognising it's ability to:

1. Attract new fans (which it's doing) and
2. Open doors for young talent (which it has e.g. David Warner).

T20 is a good thing for growth of game. Yes it's "hit and giggle" though it's not sold as the "be all and end all" of cricket.
 

Horrie Is God

First Grade
Messages
8,073
Umbrella of ageing stars provides shelter for young talent to grow into their own thick skins..

Malcolm Knox

January 16, 2012

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/umbrella-of-ageing-stars-provides-shelter-for-young-talent-to-grow-into-their-own-thick-skins-20120115-1q1gm.html

I have lost count of how many times this season I've heard that good players at the end of their careers deserve one series too many rather than one too few. It's been mainly Australians who have been saying it. While painful to watch, the death-throes of India's once-Fab Four haven't proved the theory wrong. In a way, they've proved it right, and their presence has allowed the blossoming of a new generation of talent on both teams.


art-353-ponting-200x0.jpg

Important role ... Ricky Ponting. Photo: Getty Images


The stars of this match were inexperienced Test cricketers: David Warner, Ed Cowan, Ben Hilfenhaus, Mitchell Starc, Ryan Harris, Peter Siddle, Umesh Yadav and Virat Kohli. This group of eight players came into the match with 74 Test appearances between them. They utterly outshone a collection of 14 other players with 1162 Tests' experience. It's been a real-life version of Cricket Superstar.

The logic in retaining old players isn't just to squeeze out the last drops of performance and wisdom. Nor is it indulgence to the elderly. Sachin Tendulkar, Ricky Ponting, Rahul Dravid, Mike Hussey, V.V.S. Laxman, Virender Sehwag and Zaheer Khan have all given something to this series, but only dreamers would believe these men can reverse the pull of time. Where these players serve the process of renewal is as a kind of umbrella under which young talent can grow. The waves of criticism battering the Indian veterans have actually diverted pressure from Kohli and Gautam Gambhir, two young players who have shown great class by being able to reverse form slumps in the middle of a tough series. A decade ago, Justin Langer did this in the West Indies and it was his making.

Likewise, the endless hand-wringing over Ponting and Hussey has sheltered Warner and company. Sometimes a team needs these veterans as human heatshields.
The Australian team is a snake shedding its skin. Before the old layer peels off completely, it has to hang around, not because it's still alive but because it's providing protection for the next layer. The trick, now, is for the old layer to let go when it's best for the body. As thoughts turn to England 2013, although Ponting, Hussey and Brad Haddin would like to live forever and reclaim the Ashes, now is the time to feel optimistic about the look of an Australian top seven of Warner, Cowan, Khawaja, Clarke, Marsh, Watson and Wade or Nevill, with a bowling crew of Pattinson, Cummins, Hilfenhaus, Siddle, Starc, Harris and Lyon.

For India, the enormous pain will be anaesthetised by a future schedule of sparse Test matches in helpful home conditions. The likes of Kohli, Gambhir, Rohit Sharma, Cheteshwar Pujara and Suresh Raina form a reasonable batting nucleus, while Yadav, Ishant Sharma and Ravi Ashwin can power the bowling as long as they survive the depredations of Twenty20 cricket. And of course, if India is a powerhouse in more than just name, it will quickly produce champions we haven't heard of yet.
While sporting conflicts are continuous, always rolling from one into the next, it's probably a moment to reflect on a few things.

This series, for Australia, was predicted to be a bloodbath after the embarrassments of Cape Town and Hobart. Clarke and the new management have been vindicated, and the team has played the most attractive, forceful, fresh cricket that has been seen in the five years since the retirement of Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath. Much will be said about the weakness of the opposition, but if you look at the Australians' bowling in all three Tests, wickets have not fallen through bad batting so much as the bowlers' discipline and mastery of the moving ball. A year ago, gun-barrel Australian bowling was getting flayed. Now they can swing it again. They have beaten India, not just let an ageing team beat itself.

The match ended with Siddle, the final wicket-taker, making a beeline for deep point, where he embraced Warner, the man of the match. After their team cuddle, the Australians shook hands with a dejected line-up including four batsmen whose deeds will be talked about as long as the game is played. On the scoreboard, off went the present players' nameplates and up went, on one side, Western Australia's team of the century - Lillee, two Marshes, Alderman, McKenzie and the rest - and on the other, the Perth Scorchers, who include another Marsh we'll be seeing more of. Two eras of history cross paths, shake hands, and go their separate ways.
 
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