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5th Ashes Test: England v Australia at The Oval on Aug 20-24, 2015

Pete Cash

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We haven't lost in the RSA since they came back into test cricket. Maybe it's because of similar conditions ?

You in fact didn't win the test series against England so talk about a shitty brag
 

JJ

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We haven't lost in the RSA since they came back into test cricket. Maybe it's because of similar conditions ?

You in fact didn't win the test series against England so talk about a shitty brag

It's NZ cricket, we can only manage shitty brags... in fairness, we had two tests, and were obviously the better team. We're ok over there for the same reason you're good in RSA - the conditions are similar to home
 

Bazal

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As terrible as we were in parts, I think some people are getting carried away to an extent. It was, for example, a much better showing than against Pakistan in the UAE IMO. At the end of the day, we lost the series based on the wrong call at one toss and two awful innings with the bat in conditions that suited their bowlers down to the ground. It was the kind of series where neither side ever really managed to get going. No one played consistently good cricket, which sucked as a viewer.

The issue for me has nothing to do with technique, or even so much with selection. The side we fielded wasn't our best IMO and still could have won, but they didn't apply themselves with the bat. Batsmen went out there and expected to dominate, and the bowlers and the conditions didn't allow for that. It was only the last test where they showed some patience and some willingness to see off the swinging ball and we scored near on 500 and won by an innings! Granted the conditions weren't as lethal as the previous two matches, but the idea was the same. You have to work hard in those conditions and the batsmen weren't willing to do that. Whether that comes down to the players, the coaching staff, or both, somewhere along the line we took the wrong approach and paid for it with the series.

I think the bowlers, individually, were mostly good. The issue was that we put in some poor performances as a unit. I'm not sure the structure is right with both Starc and Johnson in the side. Hazlewood is a very good player, but he was clearly struggling with fitness and with having to be the rock to their attacking bowling. I think we need to look at the balance of the attack, but ultimately the bowlers weren't the issue.
 

JJ

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You seriously think technique wasn't an issue??

Those were not minefield conditions
 

Bazal

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You seriously think technique wasn't an issue??

Those were not minefield conditions

No it wasn't, to both of those questions/statements.

Is it a technical issue to play at balls you should leave, or an application issue? I think it's an application issue. It's not technique that makes players prod at balls away from their body, that's wanting to hit a ball you should be leaving. Whether it was a misjudgement of the conditions or just assuming they could dominate when they couldn't, far too many wickets went down playing at balls that didn't need to be played at. That's application, not technique. How hard is it to leave the ball?

I think technique is such an overrated concern for batsmen in most aspects, with the exception of a few fatal flaws. Playing to your technique is far more important than what that technique is.
 

Pete Cash

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Agreed.

Batsmen have to be willing to play within their technique. How many touring batsmen get out driving on the up in Australia. They know before they get on the plane that there is a different driving length in Australia but players get out time and again doing it. That's application of technique. Very few batsmen can just change their technique on the fly so they have to just play within that.
 

Twizzle

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153,337
Its mostly technique.

Have a look at Marsh and Voges dismissals in the 4th test.

Reaching out with the hands too far in front of the body instead of playing late with the ball under the eyes. On the roads we bat on here in Australia they refer to that as driving on the up and we get away with that as there is no sideways movement off the pitch but on their green top the balls comes off slower and moves sideways off the seam.

Problem with batting on roads in this country and we need to address this with teh pitches we prepare for our 4 day games, make batsmen think about their shots and practice leaving the ball.
 

Bazal

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That's an approach to batting though, not technique. They've decided to play at balls the should leave, or to go hard at the ball. That's your mental approach not your physical technique
 

Red Bear

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20,882
Its mostly technique.

Have a look at Marsh and Voges dismissals in the 4th test.

Reaching out with the hands too far in front of the body instead of playing late with the ball under the eyes. On the roads we bat on here in Australia they refer to that as driving on the up and we get away with that as there is no sideways movement off the pitch but on their green top the balls comes off slower and moves sideways off the seam.

Problem with batting on roads in this country and we need to address this with teh pitches we prepare for our 4 day games, make batsmen think about their shots and practice leaving the ball.
I don't completely our agree our pitches are all roads. The Gabba and Perth are generally very good for quicks, hobart can be also, Sydney will often crumble but can offer something for quicks early (was shit this year though). Adelaide can spin late, Melbourne is kind of crap.

But they generally have quite good, sharp bounce that is exploited by our bowlers well and adjusted for by our batsmen. Much of our players game are built around the amount of bounce on Australian pitches.

And our bowling attack of late (apart from the Saffa's) will generally run through all sorts of quality batsmen when they come over here, just like we get done when we go to the UAE or India or England (Generally we've been good enough/opposition bowlers weak enough to overcome Sri Lanka, Windies, NZ conditions in recent years, although NZ haven't been as strong a bowling lineup in a long time).

It's not so much that we play on roads, it's that we don't adjust to foreign conditions, and there's a bit of a difference between the two. But it's evident in our bowling as well as our batting. It's also typical of almost every side that is not South Africa.

As far as technique goes, plenty have suceeded without textbook styles, but there's a few fundamental things that tend to be important. I do think a good mentality can overcome technical flaws - see Steve Smith amongst others, when he's at his best.
I suspect a good technique is most valuable when you're out of form. When you're struggling for runs it's generally a bit easier to lean on a good technique to grind out for a while, scrap yourself back into form. When your technique isn't particularly good and you are out of form it can get pretty ugly (Smith early on, also inexperience, Hughes at difference stages, various 'eye' players once their eyes start to go).
 

Bazal

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As far as technique goes, plenty have suceeded without textbook styles, but there's a few fundamental things that tend to be important. I do think a good mentality can overcome technical flaws - see Steve Smith amongst others, when he's at his best.
I suspect a good technique is most valuable when you're out of form. When you're struggling for runs it's generally a bit easier to lean on a good technique to grind out for a while, scrap yourself back into form. When your technique isn't particularly good and you are out of form it can get pretty ugly (Smith early on, also inexperience, Hughes at difference stages, various 'eye' players once their eyes start to go).

Exactly. Your mental approach as a batsman is paramount. Technique varies from player to player and very few players get to Test cricket with flaws in their game that they can't overcome, with a few obvious exceptions *insert Shane Watson here*. Technique also varies from game to game. IMO a lot of the batsmen played at balls they should left, or played too aggressively without working to get themselves in. That's not a technique issue.

A good technique is whatever works for a player
 

Twizzle

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Every player has technical flaws at any level, name me a player and I'll point out his flaws, although most will be obvious.

Exclude Martin Crowe and Greg Chappell.

Our technique suits the pitches we were raised, hence why the batsmen become successful and hence they get picked in the Aussie team.

Then we go to the sub continent and in this case England and our technique gets shown up till we adjust, but all too late in this case
 

TheParraboy

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IIRC, when South Africa were 8-down (with only one wicket to go until Smith decided at the last minute to bat when they went 9-down), there were some ominous storm clouds that were threatening to pass over the SCG, but missed and went out to the western parts of Sydney.

most likely your right,

I was under the Trumper Stand and couldn't see half the skyline :D, plus wasn't listening to the radio or had phone net to check on the weather
 

simmo1

First Grade
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5,504
lol at blaming things like Clarke batting first, not picking the right bowlers or Haddin's drop for losing the Ashes.

The Australian batting was dreadful in three out of the five tests. Completely found out against the moving ball in the 3rd and 4th, and threw away their wickets in the 1st. That's the main reason they lost the Ashes, and shows that a lot of them didn't learn anything from 2013.
 

JJ

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lol at blaming things like Clarke batting first, not picking the right bowlers or Haddin's drop for losing the Ashes.

The Australian batting was dreadful in three out of the five tests. Completely found out against the moving ball in the 3rd and 4th, and threw away their wickets in the 1st. That's the main reason they lost the Ashes, and shows that a lot of them didn't learn anything from 2013.

Yep, that's the crux of it
 

hineyrulz

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lol at blaming things like Clarke batting first, not picking the right bowlers or Haddin's drop for losing the Ashes.

The Australian batting was dreadful in three out of the five tests. Completely found out against the moving ball in the 3rd and 4th, and threw away their wickets in the 1st. That's the main reason they lost the Ashes, and shows that a lot of them didn't learn anything from 2013.
The test series in a nutshell, lack of respect for the opposition and conditions IMO as well.
 

Bazal

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I don't think many people are blaming that toss or that drop, just saying that they were moments that turned the series...which is true. Get Root for a duck and England likely fail in that innings, changing the match. Bowl first in the third test and we almost certainly don't get rolled for 60 regardless of what England set because we avoid the worst of the conditions...

As I said earlier, two woeful batting efforts cost us the series, but one of them could likely have been avoided with the right decision at the toss.
 

Pete Cash

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We had three tests that suited us as cricketers. So we had to either win all three or pick a draw up at edgbaston or Trent bridge.

We failed to win Cardiff and that was that. If we won at Cardiff the bowled out for 60 would be an embarrassing footnote in a successful series. This current Australian side is going to struggle on certain English grounds but every series has Lords and the oval generally. That's two tests right there we can target.
 

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