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5th Ashes Test: England v Australia at The Oval on Aug 20-24, 2015

Bazal

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There it is. At least we sent off Clarke and Roger the right way, having already lost the series...
 

undertaker

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All over red rover.

All in all a disgraceful series.

Agreed.

My analysis of the series is as follows:

Compared to Ashes series in years gone by, the quality of cricket from both teams this series, on the whole, was below average, as evidenced by all 5 test results being very lop-sided. Neither side batted nor bowled consistently well. Regarding individual performances, the difference across the first four tests (with the series being decided after the 4th) being

1st test: Joe Root dropped on 0, goes on to make a century
2nd test: Steve Smith dropped, goes on to make a double century
3rd test: Andersons 6-fer in the 1st innings, Finn's 6-fer in the 2nd innings
4th test: Broad's 8-fer in the 1st innings, Stokes's 6-fer in the 2nd innings

All in all, England produced the goods with the ball on those 3rd/4th test green-tops when it mattered the most. Those 6-fers from Anderson/Finn/Broad/Stokes on the green-tops really hurt compared to our inconsistent bowling in those conditions, and this sealed our fate. Bringing in Siddle was too little too late for this dead-rubber test, but he should've replaced Starc instead of Hazlewood. I really hope Hazlewood being dropped from this final test doesn't see him on the outer with the selectors, as I feel he has a very bright future and will learn a lot from this Ashes. We need to be looking towards the future in the Steve Smith captaincy era, and can't keep chopping youngsters who've shown a lot of potential, but then are given the axe after a couple of below average matches. Like McGrath, Hazlewood has the line and height to trouble batsmen with bounce, but just needs more time to iron out those inconsistencies. People often forget that before McGrath made a name for himself as Australia's premier fast bowler and stood up to the plate in the absence of Fleming and McDermott during the 1995 tour of West Indies (where we ended their 20yr dominance and became no.1), that McGrath had a shocker and was dropped after the first Ashes test a few months earlier, only to be recalled in the last test at Perth. So, he too was on a learning curve at 24/25yrs of age, which is what Hazlewood is. This is so important, because the selectors won't want to damage the confidence and send mixed-messages to the youth, like they have with Joe Burns not being on the West Indies/Ashes tour if good performances in his 2 tests vs India.

Starc worries me though.....unfortunately looks like an ODI specialist, but cannot translate that form into test cricket. He reminds me of Johnson between post-2009 tour of South Africa and before he was recalled for the 2013/14 home Ashes: too many wide balls spraying all over the place, hence not able to build sustained pressure for the bowler down the other end to work with. We got lucky yesterday and got England's last two wickets to enforce the follow-on, but you cannot start off a day's play with the crap bowling he dished up. Had he been doing that to batsmen like Lara, Kallis and the like, they would've made him look rank amateur.

My turning point of the series: Michael Clarke electing to bat first after winning the toss at Edgbaston. When he arrives back in Australia and reflects over this series, he'll be looking back at that decision as a blunder that - combined with his current form - led to an abrupt downfall. Deja vu of Ponting's decision at the toss at the same ground 10yrs earlier to bowl first, and England piled on 400+ on that first day (the beginning of their fightback in that series). With all the media talk about the slow flat tracks dished up in the first two tests and finally a different pitch produced with the series being 1-all and in the balance, Clarke thought he could outsmart England in their ideal home conditions, bat first and make the statement "See, we can dominate batting first on any pitch, even in conditions tailor-made for you", but it sorely backfired and we were brutally exposed. When Cook won the toss on the same type of pitch and elected to bowl first in the next test at Trent Bridge, the look on Clarke's face afterwards showed he knew trouble was imminent: he was right. Reminds me of our disasterous 2013 tour of India, where we only played one front-line spinner in a test where India played three. Success leaves clues, and we were moronic enough to think we could beat India in their own conditions that they've spent years playing in, with 3 fast bowlers (who are not of the calibre of McGrath/Kasprowicz/Gillespie, when we won over there in 2004) and only one spinner.

I'm going to sleep now, but before I do, regarding the other thread I started "Big player cleanout coming up", it's going to be very interesting to see which squad the selectors take over for the Bangladesh tour. For the sake of Smith's captaincy, we need to perform well over there before our home test series vs New Zealand. There will definitely be several new faces, and I hope we can build that aggression and passion back that we had during the Steve Waugh years: success being a MUST, not a SHOULD.
 
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Pete Cash

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The turning point in the series was Smith and Clarke not converting a start into a century at Cardiff (Smith in particular got out underestimating Moeen) and Haddin dropping Root.

Win Cardiff and it doesn't matter how much England dick us by at edgbaston and Trent bridge.
 

lockyno1

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53,348
Wrong.

Turning point of the series was Ryan Harris retiring...and then to compound things we replaced him with a bowler who is a ODI specialist in all reality.
 

Pete Cash

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Can't control a player getting injured. Can control taking our catches and not skipping down the wicket to a b grade spinner so early he has time to throw the ball a km down leg.

We get that you don't like Starc but he was our leading wicket taker.

Again we win Cardiff and this is all academic.

Do you think England still talk about the dicking they got by mijo at the waca in 10/11 or do you think they don't give a f**k because they won the ashes away despite a thrashing in foreign conditions.
 

undertaker

Coach
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11,023
Wrong.

Turning point of the series was Ryan Harris retiring...and then to compound things we replaced him with a bowler who is a ODI specialist in all reality.

Ryan Harris retired BEFORE the series started, hence your point being null. I know we could've done with Harris' bowling, however there was always a high chance he'd break down with injury sometime during the series (and unfortunately it was before it started), AND our bowlers showed at Lord's that we could win and take 20 wickets without him.

In the CONTEXT of the series though (i.e. where a series changed during the series), Clarke's decision at the Edgbaston toss was just as much of a blunder as Ponting's 10yrs earlier. After a smashing 400+ run win at Lord's, I hate to say this, but it comes back to the ego, cockiness and arrogance that developed in such a situation: thinking we could just do whatever the hell we wanted and that everything touched would turn to gold, rather than making decisions and adapting our batting/bowling to the conditions that were present.

T20 has been a curse on our batting technique over the past 5 years, hence no surprises we have been pathetically bowled out for less than 100 four times during that period (whereas the previous time before those four times was Mumbai 2004 on a rank turner that lasted only 2 days given day 1 was washed out, and before Mumbai 2004 was nearly 2 decades earlier). And yet one of the concerns raised in the Argus Review was that too much T20 cricket was being played by our national/state players, and what has changed four years later in that regard????? Either play proper cricket shots or leave the ball, not all these stupid, niggly dabbling the bat out rubbish that eventually culminates in edges to the slip cordon/wicketkeeper. As Mark Taylor says ad nauseum in commentary "Test Matches are played over 5 days". You don't need to try and play at every single ball, nor need to try anything fancy or flamboyant ala Glen Maxwell-style. The whole state/domestic cricket schedule and priorities have become a complete schmozzle, but don't expect us to reach our maximum potential whilst Cricket Australia's priorities lie with the $ sign AND whilst James Sutherland is still CEO.
 
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JJ

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In the CONTEXT of the series though (i.e. where a series changed during the series), Clarke's decision at the Edgbaston toss was just as much of a blunder as Ponting's 10yrs earlier. After a smashing 400+ run win at Lord's, I hate to say this, but it comes back to the ego, cockiness and arrogance that developed in such a situation: thinking we could just do whatever the hell we wanted and that everything touched would turn to gold, rather than making decisions and adapting our batting/bowling to the conditions that were present.

.

:shock: admitting the Australian cricketers can be arrogant?? Yes indeed...

Waugh's team were like that, and of course whether that's arrogance or they were just undeniably great is the debate - bit of both, but they were so good they could pretty much do whatever they wanted - it got them in trouble only a handful of times

This team is pretty poor if everyone's honest - some fine young talent, some older players that are past their best and were good, and some that were never good...

England thoroughly outplayed them when it mattered, and they had no answers until this Watson-like performance... England have some problems, but I think their mentality is different, once they had won the Ashes, they kinda checked out - there's no coming back for Lyth I'd imagine.
 
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hineyrulz

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Hard to get excited over that win, lost the ashes to a side of absolute plodders.

What does that say about us?? One of the worst quality ashes series I can remember.
 

undertaker

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:shock: admitting the Australian cricketers can be arrogant?? Yes indeed...

Waugh's team were like that, and of course whether that's arrogance or they were just undeniably great is the debate - bit of both, but they were so good they could pretty much do whatever they wanted - it got them in trouble only a handful of times

This team is pretty poor if everyone's honest - some fine young talent, some older players that are past their best and were good, and some that were never good...

England thoroughly outplayed them when it mattered, and they had no answers until this Watson-like performance... England have some problems, but I think their mentality is different, once they had won the Ashes, they kinda checked out - there's no coming back for Lyth I'd imagine.

No, I wasn't specifically stating that Australian cricketers can be arrogant. I was moreso referring to the situation they were in, and the attitude that developed after the magnitude of the win (400+ runs) in England's own backyard at the Home of Cricket , before going into the Edgbaston test in completely different conditions.

Even when Waugh's team was smashing the daylights out of their opponents, they still adjusted their gameplan , tried to bat and bowl to the conditions and opposition they were up against. Yes, the run-rate picked up during Waugh's era and scoring 300+ runs in a day became the norm, but irrespective of how much talented those players were compared to the current side, that side proved you could still achieve success playing proper cricket shots, bowling with consistency and accuracy, and treating a test match as a TEST match rather than an ODI/T20 and trying to score off every ball, unorthodox batting shots etc.
 
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undertaker

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11,023
Hard to get excited over that win, lost the ashes to a side of absolute plodders.

What does that say about us?? One of the worst quality ashes series I can remember.

After all the ongoing dramas surrounding Clarke in the media during his 4 1/2yr tenure as test captain, hopefully we can start fresh again and Smith doesn't get engulfed in all these controversies. Compared to when Smith was captain during the test series vs India a few months ago, he's really going to have his work cut out this time being the captain on a full-time basis with a different, more youthful side and will have to do a similar job to what Allan Border did during the first few years of his captaincy before breaking through with that 1989 Ashes series win. All in all, some interesting times ahead for Australian cricket
 
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Hutty1986

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Australia choked, badly.

Some big changes are needed, because the 3-2 figure probably flatters what was an absolutely unacceptable performance from the side.
To be rolled for 60 is just disgraceful, and our batting line-up remains the most brittle going around.

We'll flog a terrible Windies side at home this summer but NZ have to be favourites to beat us on current form. Just a hugely disappointing series-Poms just far too good.
 

Pete Cash

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Why are NZ favourites.... The games are being played in Australia. NZ are a good side but some of their batsmen have shown they are uncomfortable against the lifting ball.
 

JJ

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Australia are favourites against anyone at home - except perhaps RSA

We would be favourites in NZ imo...
 

Pete Cash

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Correct for the same reason we just failed in England. Geoffrey boycott did say NZ only have one decent bowler though and who am I to disagree :p
 

JJ

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Correct for the same reason we just failed in England. Geoffrey boycott did say NZ only have one decent bowler though and who am I to disagree :p

He'd probably agree that one decent bowler is enough to account for your pathetic batsmen (his words)

Boult is as good as anyone, but we have a good group - no way we lose a 5 test series in England, of that I am certain
 
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