A Contract is a Contract, is a Contract....or is it?

[Bring back choc]

Hornby and soward will be the halves. Unless king play half and hornby dummy half (could work). Hornby is technically a brilliant defender. I think it could br Cameron smith like from dummy half.

 

[STG-Dragon]

1. if the tigers want him that much make them buy out his contract = x3 years = $$$$$
2. Buy Carney - Yes Buy Carney
3. Hornby back to fullback - where he belongs

1 and 2 no probs 3! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You can't be serious!

 

[evil_p091280]

Who here doesn't love pissing on your friends and maybe jumping on peoples cars. No problem

Takes a lot of talent to be banned from a town...

 

[God-King Dean]

I'd have no problems whatsoever with Dragons having Carney. f**k what the media thinks.

Get Doust to give him a life supply of Crownies & and lighters to light his farts with.

 

[redvwhite]

I'd take Carney in place of Moltzen. A huge risk yeah but if we lose out on Moltzen we will be caught short on proven NRL backs with skill. Also, I read on NRL forum Tupou from Warriors might be leaving Warriors. How would he go in the red and white??

 

[grouch]

Pretty sure Brian Carney has retired, and is now a commentator for Sky

 

[Mr Red]

If you can't rate him under pressure under the high ball because you haven't seen enough then you can't rate his on line defense either because you haven't seen enough. Do you really think he would try to tackle a guy around the legs near the line? I doubt he would be that stupid.

I have seen him run in open space and he is deceptively quick. Kinda like Inglis, Hodges and Ken Nagas in the old days. They don't look like they are traveling very fast but they always seem to have enough pace to beat the defence.

good points.. and although as cagey said stanley is a "mostly" around the legs tackler, i have seen him put on some solid ball and all tackles when playing in the hooker role..
i dont think he would be stupid enough to tackle around the legs when defending the try line... if he is then there is bigger problems with him playing first grade at all ... not just fullback

 

[TheRev]

Hmmm the news today is saying we never registered the contract or some such, or that Wests never processed the release... what a joke when the Tigers publicly acknowledged that he was free to go..

 

[getsmarty]

St George Illawarra Dragons deal with Wests Tigers star Tim Moltzen worthless

• by: Dean Ritchie
• From: The Daily Telegraph
• October 07, 2011 12:00AM

Only one contract registered: Wests Tigers utility Tim Moltzen. Picture: Gregg Porteous Source: The Daily Telegraph



THEY claim to have done nothing wrong but St George Illawarra face being trumped by rivals Wests Tigers in the battle for utility star Tim Moltzen.

The Daily Telegraph understands the NRL has just one official contract registered for Moltzen in 2012 - and it belongs to Wests Tigers.

That leaves a second contract Moltzen signed with Saints virtually worthless. It cannot be registered.

Moltzen, 23, was given permission to negotiate with Saints mid-season when the Tigers were experiencing salary cap difficulty.

He duly signed a three-year deal with the Dragons but the Tigers are now claiming Moltzen was never formally released.

The Dragons may have to accept the fact Moltzen will remain at Concord - but they will be far from happy.

One well-placed legal source said: "If St George Illawarra can't register him, then he can't play for them under NRL rules. This is a problem for Saints.

"I'm sure the Dragons signed him in good faith but Wests Tigers certainly have the upper hand."

Moltzen has told friends he wants out of the Dragons deal.

Wests Tigers chief executive Steve Humphreys denied a deal had been discussed in which his club would financially compensate the Dragons.
"Tim is
contracted to us for 2012," Humphreys said. "We have the only contract of his that is registered by the NRL.

"There has been dialogue (between the two clubs) but no release has been formalised or agreed upon.

"He is a Wests Tigers player until such time his contract concludes or he is released."

Asked why the Tigers didn't object at the time of Moltzen's move, Humphreys said: "I did. No one asked us for a release. We just sat on it."The Tigers though are still anticipating a fight for Moltzen with St George Illawarra.

The NRL is refusing to intervene, hoping the matter can be resolved by the two clubs.

"St George Illawarra, as I understand it, believe he was free to sign a contract with them," Humphreys said. "They moved forward. There was no dialogue between the two clubs at the time which was unusual. There is dialogue now and we are hoping to resolve this amicably.

"Peter Doust (Dragons CEO) and I get on pretty well. There is no desire to make this any more difficult than it needs to be. We will sort it out one way or another hopefully without the NRL intervening."

Doust was unavailable for comment yesterday.

Questions remain over why the Tigers gave Moltzen permission to talk with the Dragons but said nothing about the deal until now.

The Dragons bought Moltzen to cover for departing stars Darius Boyd and Mark Gasnier.

It appears the Tigers now want to keep Moltzen given the club is about to axe halfback Robert Lui.

 

[SilentAssassin]

No longer want him at the club. If he doesn't want to be here then he can **** off back to the Tigers with his boyfriend Benji.

Kyle Stanley fullback. Chase Stanley centre and we're set.

 

[Handy]

Questions remain over why the Tigers gave Moltzen permission to talk with the Dragons but said nothing about the deal until now.

The Tigers look like a bunch Indian givers.

 

[saints4ever]

What an absolute farce. Dousty cut the dead branch and move on. Whether or not moltzen is bitching behind the scenes or not is irrelevant, he is not a player worth this shit

 

[whynot]

Who here doesn't love pissing on your friends and maybe jumping on peoples cars. No problem

So what the kid can play.... And dont think for the for one second our beloved dragons players are all clean skins just smart enough not to to get caught

 

[ggould]

Let Moltzen go!! And dont let the door hit in the arse on the way out!!! Yeah we have Stanley thats true but has everyone forgot Bronx Goodwin get him fit and give him chance I garantee he will be better than anyhing Moltzen could throw up!!! Not to mention we also have Nightingale and Vidot to cover things!!!

 

[Dragons1921]

good points.. and although as cagey said stanley is a "mostly" around the legs tackler, i have seen him put on some solid ball and all tackles when playing in the hooker role..
i dont think he would be stupid enough to tackle around the legs when defending the try line... if he is then there is bigger problems with him playing first grade at all ... not just fullback

Stanley is a "around the legs" tackler. Go watch the R15 v the Broncos. He made 26 tackles and I would say at least 23-24 of them were around the legs. Watch him in the 2nd half when the Broncos really upped the pressure down his side, he made some glaring misses one-on-one.

As an aside, in the ruck, as a dummy half for instance, its easier to defend as you have help so you can't really draw on this to appraise his defence one-on-one .

On the other hand in that game he looked really good with the ball in his hands. And I mean in a playmaking role not the option runner. When Hornby didn't return for the 2nd half he took over the left side and he did well.

As for speed, he has good acceleration and footwork that generally gives him the jump but every time he has some space he always gets closed down. He doesn't have real top end speed.

Another aspect is kick returns. He just isn't a strong ball runner. To me he doesn't have the strength nor top end speed. He looks best with the ball IN his hands. Fullback isn't his position. Sure he has the ability to fill in every now and then but not play a full season there.

At the moment ignoring Moltzen, with Boyd gone and going by last years performances, I would say Goodwin is our best option but with a double knee injury, it doesn't look good for him.

 

[Guvner]

Goodness this really does reflect poorly on Humphrey's and the Tigers.

Moltzen and his manager are told by the Tigers to see if he can find another deal elsewhere. They are told that if he can, he will be free to take it up. We know they were told this because neither Tauber nor Moltzen would be stupid enough to sign an alternate deal without this guarantee in place. The idea that Moltzen and Tauber wouldnt have been in touch with Tigers management throughout this process is simply ludicrous.

The Dragons make an offer and Moltzen accepts. Tauber assures Doust and the Dragons that the release is not an issue. The contract is drawn up and signed.

A week or so later Doust decides to announce the new signing. According to Doust he advises the Tigers that he intends to do this and no objections are raised. Once public, Humphreys hits the roof about the timing of the announcment and claims that they have not granted a "formal" release. Doust responds by saying that Moltzen and Tauber had advised them the release was in place and acted on that information. After their loss that night Sheens even says in the PC that the playing group was fully aware of Moltzen's departure. Seems the only one who didnt know was the Tigers CEO.

Things die down after this. The fact that Moltzen is heading to Saints seems to have been accepted by all parties. Moltzen gives an interview prior to the finals stating that "It’s a bit of a weight off my shoulders,’’ and ‘‘It’s put to bed and my future’s decided". Still nothing is said by the Tigers. The finals come and go. Its mentioned many times by various commentators that Moltzen will be leaving the club to head to the Dragons in 2012. Still nothing is said by the Tigers.

Then Robert Lui takes a prodigy song to literally and lands in hot water. (Speculation from here, but pretty close to the mark for mine). It becomes clear that keeping him in the club wont be possible after this latest indescretion and perhaps they backed the wrong horse. Realising the hole that will be left the Tigers approach Moltzen to see if he would be willing to stay and renege on his Dragons deal. He says sure, but Ive signed with them. Tauber is out of the country at this stage.

Forward to this week. All of a sudden the release not being "formal" is an issue again after 3 months of silence on the issue. Tauber arrives back in the country surprised to hear that there is any speculation about Moltzen's future. Afterall, he had been told the release would be forthcoming. On the 12th of July Tauber stated that

''There's no issue. The club [Wests Tigers] has been very good about it, and I'm meeting with the chief executive [today]. All being well, all the issues will be resolved and we'll move on with Tim. They gave us a verbal agreement.'' So not surprising that Tauber was caught off guard by this when arriving back from the US this week. Afterall for 3 months things seemed to have "moved on with Tim". ​

Pretty convenient now that Humphrey's "sat on" the release. I wonder if Tauber or Moltzen were aware he was still "Sitting on" this? Sloppy yet convenient house keeping by Humphrey's that the release Tauber was told would be forthcoming was never made "formal"? Or did he keep this up his sleeve intentionally? Or was it just an act of petulance after being made to look stupid earlier in the year?​

 

[counterpuncher]

Let Moltzen go!! And dont let the door hit in the arse on the way out!!! Yeah we have Stanley thats true but has everyone forgot Bronx Goodwin get him fit and give him chance I garantee he will be better than anyhing Moltzen could throw up!!! Not to mention we also have Nightingale and Vidot to cover things!!!

Goodwin got fit, got his chance and looked promising....before breaking down again. Best of luck to him, but his career looks irrepairable and I can't see him getting back from these repeated setbacks.

 

[Charles Bronson]

if he doesnt want to be here, then we should stop.

it will only cause problems, nothing good can come from it.

 

[Russell Crowe's Band]

tigers did this before...some centre of theirs from the 05 team had joined souths. they won the comp and he wanted to come back...
so they let him.

i say keep him.
f**k the opposition. he's a good player. you signed him...(or so i am aware anyway) and he should be playing for st george.

not only that..he should harden the f**k upand play professionally for the team who he signed the contract with.

theres only so many NRL contracts going around. plenty of other people waiting to take his place.

 

[Guvner]

Why the Tim Moltzen drama is an absolute disgrace

http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/10/07/moltzen-drama-an-absolute-disgrace/

The saga about which club Tim Moltzen will play for next season is nothing short of an absolute disgrace. It’s left many pundits scratching their heads and wondering how a contract situation could ever become so shambolic.

It’s understood the Wests Tigers verbally agreed to release Moltzen in July, allowing him to sign a three-year contract with the St George Illawarra Dragons and play for the club from next season. However, the Tigers now want Moltzen to honour his original contract, which ends at the end of next season, and therefore play with the Tigers in 2012.

Seeming as the Wests Tigers never officially released Molzten, it means the utility back has effectively signed two NRL contracts for next year. Just how could this happen?

There are a number of people who have acted unprofessionally in this fiasco, and it certainly raises a lot of questions.

How could Moltzen’s manager, Martin Tauber, allow him to sign a new contract without an official release from his current club?

How could the NRL register his Dragons contract, if he was already signed with the Tigers?

Why would the Dragons risk signing a player who was yet to be officially released from another club?

I guess you could answer all these questions by saying the Tigers gave a verbal agreement, and all parties involved took them on their word. Whilst that’s somewhat unacceptable in this day and age of absolute professionalism, it’s at least understandable.

But the West Tigers giving Moltzen a verbal agreement, then backing out months later, is nothing short of disgraceful.

The Tigers stance would be semi-acceptable if they had reluctantly agreed to let Moltzen out of his contract. However, the club was more than happy to accommodate his release due to their expensive mid-season signing of prized recruit, international Adam Blair. With the Tigers also re-signing many of their talented juniors, suddenly the club’s salary cap situation came into spotlight.

As such, Moltzen’s departure was a relief. Both to the Tigers salary cap and management’s stress levels.

When Moltzen signed with St George, the Tigers only issue at the time was that the Dragons announced it before the Tigers had a chance to do it themselves. The Tigers certainly never made any loud complaints that they had actually wanted to retain Moltzen.

However, the Tigers are now claiming that Moltzen was never given a release. Yet clearly he must have felt like he was on the outer at the club if he felt compelled to look at signing for another team.

And remember, this was far from a disgruntled player who wanted out. Molzten loves playing with the Tigers, and lives with superstar teammate Benji Marshall. The pair are extremely close, and Marshall was well known to be furious that the Tigers were squeezing Moltzen out of the club.

The decision to let Moltzen go nearly caused the Tigers to fall apart mid-season, and it’s hard to imagine Molzten wasn’t given some indication that he wasn’t wanted.
The Tigers change of heart has little to do with the club wanting to maintain the integrity of contracts.

With Robert Lui in serious doubt to return to the club due to off-field issues, the Tigers may suddenly need a halfback next season. For the last 6 games of the year, Moltzen was the Tigers best player. The club’s salary cap position has changed. And now they’d like to keep Moltzen.

Does anyone seriously believe that these facts are unrelated?

You have to feel sorry for Moltzen, who never wanted to leave the club, but is now being attacked in sections of the media for going back on his word with the Dragons. But in reality, the young kid would have just been following the instructions of his manager, and it was obvious his heart was always with the Tigers.

Regardless of the outcome, the Dragons are shaping up as the real loser from the situation.

If Moltzen is forced to play with St George, it will be begrudgingly, and the club could have a seriously unhappy player in their ranks. That’s never a good thing for club morale.

Likewise, if Moltzen stays with the Tigers, the Dragons will find themselves unable to replace him. The club moved quickly when their star fullback, Darius Boyd, announced he was moving to the Newcastle Knights, and signed Moltzen to replace him. With it now being so late in the year, all the quality free agents have signed contracts with teams for next year already, and the Dragons will therefore be down a quality player in their backline. Considering the club planned ahead and signed Moltzen in July, it’s grossly unfair on the Dragons.

It’s a fine mess, and whilst no one has covered themselves in glory, the Wests Tigers management certainly come out of it looking the worst.

But if they get to keep Moltzen, they probably won’t care.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/10/07/moltzen-drama-an-absolute-disgrace/