A corner turned? Is it onwards and upwards from here?

[The Damo]

In the Dragon's case it is not the roster, we have an excellent roster which will only improve when Hunt arrives next year. It is our Board which is the problem and only a buy out with the right conditions negotiated will sort that problem out.

It's time the Football Club Board was accountable to the Football Club Members. When that happens, these poor decisions will no longer be so prevalent.

Hey Possm, just wondering - if our roster is excellent, particularly the forwards - then how come they got "burnt out as predicted" when they weren't actually playing more minutes, making more hit ups or tackles than any other pack of forwards that could be described as excellent? Surely either they are excellent - and can do what excellent forwards do (which is my opinion) or they get burnt out?
I know you'll say "power game" but that's just words - they haven't actually done more work than others. I agree totally that Mary shouldn't have been extended when he was, but that doesn't require a theory that they knew losses were coming due to forward burnout so better get it done early.

 

[Dragsters]

Hey Possm, just wondering - if our roster is excellent, particularly the forwards - then how come they got "burnt out as predicted" when they weren't actually playing more minutes, making more hit ups or tackles than any other pack of forwards that could be described as excellent? Surely either they are excellent - and can do what excellent forwards do (which is my opinion) or they get burnt out?
I know you'll say "power game" but that's just words - they haven't actually done more work than others. I agree totally that Mary shouldn't have been extended when he was, but that doesn't require a theory that they knew losses were coming due to forward burnout so better get it done early.

Marys diabolical use of the interchange and poor bench selections to start with.

McCrones crap kicking game left the forward pack in poor field position for extended periods.

Many of us on here predicted it would have a detrimental effect at the back end of the season and the proof in in the proverbial pudding...

 

[The Damo]

Marys diabolical use of the interchange and poor bench selections to start with.

McCrones crap kicking game left the forward pack in poor field position for extended periods.

Many of us on here predicted it would have a detrimental effect at the back end of the season and the proof in in the proverbial pudding...

I agree the use of the bench has been poor - but, the times I've gone and looked at stats it hasn't actually resulted in most of our forwards playing more minutes then any others really. Vaughan is higher than average, but he's a machine. Packer, ah mau and Sims weren't playing any more than average. Frizz and JDB seem to be playing less minutes this year than they have previously and again not more than you'd expect of players in their positions.

Microbes crappy kicking has been a huge problem, and yeah I can see that as plausible, though mitigated by the fact our backs always take the first 2-3 hit ups after a kick.

I just don't see burn out by overuse of our forwards as plausible reason for the slide. Lack of mental toughness, drifting out of focus, inability to stick to game plan and resort to the sideways bullshit, lack of pace on the flanks and crap kicking are the major problems.

 

[Dragsters]

I agree the use of the bench has been poor - but, the times I've gone and looked at stats it hasn't actually resulted in most of our forwards playing more minutes then any others really. Vaughan is higher than average, but he's a machine. Packer, ah mau and Sims weren't playing any more than average. Frizz and JDB seem to be playing less minutes this year than they have previously and again not more than you'd expect of players in their positions.

Microbes crappy kicking has been a huge problem, and yeah I can see that as plausible, though mitigated by the fact our backs always take the first 2-3 hit ups after a kick.

I just don't see burn out by overuse of our forwards as plausible reason for the slide. Lack of mental toughness, drifting out of focus, inability to stick to game plan and resort to the sideways bullshit, lack of pace on the flanks and crap kicking are the major problems.

Agreed.

Not the sole reason but a contributing factor perhaps.

 

[Old Timer]

Hey Possm, just wondering - if our roster is excellent, particularly the forwards - then how come they got "burnt out as predicted" when they weren't actually playing more minutes, making more hit ups or tackles than any other pack of forwards that could be described as excellent? Surely either they are excellent - and can do what excellent forwards do (which is my opinion) or they get burnt out?
I know you'll say "power game" but that's just words - they haven't actually done more work than others. I agree totally that Mary shouldn't have been extended when he was, but that doesn't require a theory that they knew losses were coming due to forward burnout so better get it done early.

One of things re the forwards that is overlooked IMO is the mental tiredness.
If our forwards don't make ground the backs never will (unlike good sides with scintillating pace)
If our forwards fail to dominate, the game is lost as there are no real match winners in the backs.
If the forward defence is breached then tries result as we have no speed in the backs to chase down.
So there is a lot of added pressure that our forwards endure for the side to have any chance of winning.
Vaughan scoring 8 tries is testimony to the fact that our forwards really carry a huge load and do a lot of "bash and crash" stuff as we are totally incapable of making long range breaks yet alone scoring long distance tries that inevitably give forwards much needed rest time.
It must also be physically and mentally draining for them to see their huge effort to be pissed up against the wall by inept kicking and stupid options and dumb turnovers in the backline.

 

[Drag Queen]

One of things re the forwards that is overlooked IMO is the mental tiredness.
If our forwards don't make ground the backs never will (unlike good sides with scintillating pace)
If our forwards fail to dominate, the game is lost as there are no real match winners in the backs.
If the forward defence is breached then tries result as we have no speed in the backs to chase down.
So there is a lot of added pressure that our forwards endure for the side to have any chance of winning.
Vaughan scoring 8 tries is testimony to the fact that our forwards really carry a huge load and do a lot of "bash and crash" stuff as we are totally incapable of making long range breaks yet alone scoring long distance tries that inevitably give forwards much needed rest time.
It must also be physically and mentally draining for them to see their huge effort to be pissed up against the wall by inept kicking and stupid options and dumb turnovers in the backline.

Yes. You're right.

 

[possm]

Hey Possm, just wondering - if our roster is excellent, particularly the forwards - then how come they got "burnt out as predicted" when they weren't actually playing more minutes, making more hit ups or tackles than any other pack of forwards that could be described as excellent? Surely either they are excellent - and can do what excellent forwards do (which is my opinion) or they get burnt out?
I know you'll say "power game" but that's just words - they haven't actually done more work than others. I agree totally that Mary shouldn't have been extended when he was, but that doesn't require a theory that they knew losses were coming due to forward burnout so better get it done early.

I and many others predicted exactly what would happen, including the early decision on the extension. To avoid burnout our club needs to have more quality depth in the forwards i.e. for 2018, Kerr, Lewis, Host, Sele and Leilua all need to be signed up till at least 2020 and used frequently to rest our forward pack - that is if Mary is going to use his 'power play plan' in 2018.

Under this 'power play plan' our forwards take on the bulk of hard work. So we need to lessen the load by using our up and coming star forwards.

Now tell me, is Mary up to it or not? If you were on the Board, would you keep Mary on or not? and finally, would you have extended Mary's contract mid-season or at season's end.

 

[Crush]

When you have no faith in your argument, just ask more questions. Good way to keep shifting the goalposts. Anyway, maybe they're fighting for their jobs because their respective clubs - get this - have higher standards. Shocking, I know.

As for Paul Green, not only have they lost Thurston, but they've been missing their captain and best prop all season too. Now take a look at the ladder.

You didnt answer the question though grumpy one. The question was why are Des and Madge who you rate extremely highly in a position where they may be fired? Why can they not get their teams winning games? Lost the group? Toxic internal politics?
On the cowboys, I looked at ladder. Since Round 19 they have gone LLLLW.
Hopefully they lose tonight to make that LLLLWL and scrape into 8th.
Without JT they are nothing.

 

[ALSGI]

Power play/game is absolute BS and has many followers hook line and sinker, except the opposition players and coaches.
Every team has a power game and like us, sometimes our pack win and sometimes not.
FFS.
Storm have a power game, in the forwards, halves and backs.
We have a power game in the forwards and occassionally the halves, that has been defeated by opposition 'power'.

What a load of wank - 'power game'.

McGee-up's spin for - we have slow backs.

 

[Old Timer]

You didnt answer the question though grumpy one. The question was why are Des and Madge who you rate extremely highly in a position where they may be fired? Why can they not get their teams winning games? Lost the group? Toxic internal politics?
On the cowboys, I looked at ladder. Since Round 19 they have gone LLLLW.
Hopefully they lose tonight to make that LLLLWL and scrape into 8th.
Without JT they are nothing.

Crush
Without trying to cut across your fling with Grouch it is obvious that the Dogs and Souths are very unhappy clubs for a plethora of reasons and no amount of good coaching is going to turn that around.
The spirit at both clubs is piss poor and not a reflection of the ability of either coach.
If you look at Souths how well have Keary and Mc Inness have gone after getting out of the environment and influence of "Gladiator".
The Dogs have massive issues with cap making them cull and their board has obvious issues so not a nice place to be.
Cowboys have been thumped with injuries and have done well to be where they are taking everything into consideration.
Look at how many very young players they have relied on to get them through the season thus far. In fact their attitude to youth will stand them in good stead for seasons to come unlike our protracted methodology of getting them blooded
Their coach should be congratulated on an excellent job in keeping his team afloat considering the loss of Scott and Thurston not too mention losing Coote and a few others throughout the year.

 

[Crush]

Crush
Without trying to cut across your fling with Grouch it is obvious that the Dogs and Souths are very unhappy clubs for a plethora of reasons and no amount of good coaching is going to turn that around.
The spirit at both clubs is piss poor and not a reflection of the ability of either coach.
If you look at Souths how well have Keary and Mc Inness have gone after getting out of the environment and influence of "Gladiator".
The Dogs have massive issues with cap making them cull and their board has obvious issues so not a nice place to be.
Cowboys have been thumped with injuries and have done well to be where they are taking everything into consideration.
Look at how many very young players they have relied on to get them through the season thus far. In fact their attitude to youth will stand them in good stead for seasons to come unlike our protracted methodology of getting them blooded
Their coach should be congratulated on an excellent job in keeping his team afloat considering the loss of Scott and Thurston not too mention losing Coote and a few others throughout the year.

I love the way you just make statements like "the spirit at the clubs is poor and not a reflection of the coaches"
Like its fact.

 

[The Damo]

I and many others predicted exactly what would happen, including the early decision on the extension. To avoid burnout our club needs to have more quality depth in the forwards i.e. for 2018, Kerr, Lewis, Host, Sele and Leilua all need to be signed up till at least 2020 and used frequently to rest our forward pack - that is if Mary is going to use his 'power play plan' in 2018.

Under this 'power play plan' our forwards take on the bulk of hard work. So we need to lessen the load by using our up and coming star forwards.

Now tell me, is Mary up to it or not? If you were on the Board, would you keep Mary on or not? and finally, would you have extended Mary's contract mid-season or at season's end.

If I was on the board I would have been against extending Mary mid season. I would have advocated waiting till seasons end then making a decision.
Your turn to answer a question-
What evidence do you have that under our "power play plan" our forwards take the bulk of the hard work? Extra hit ups? Extra minutes? What exactly is your assertion based on? Just saying th words power play doesn't magically make the forwards work harder.

 

[Old Timer]

I love the way you just make statements like "the spirit at the clubs is poor and not a reflection of the coaches"
Like its fact.

Do you think they are happy clubs?
Do you think their morale is high?

 

[The Damo]

Crush
Without trying to cut across your fling with Grouch it is obvious that the Dogs and Souths are very unhappy clubs for a plethora of reasons and no amount of good coaching is going to turn that around.
The spirit at both clubs is piss poor and not a reflection of the ability of either coach.
If you look at Souths how well have Keary and Mc Inness have gone after getting out of the environment and influence of "Gladiator".
The Dogs have massive issues with cap making them cull and their board has obvious issues so not a nice place to be.
Cowboys have been thumped with injuries and have done well to be where they are taking everything into consideration.
Look at how many very young players they have relied on to get them through the season thus far. In fact their attitude to youth will stand them in good stead for seasons to come unlike our protracted methodology of getting them blooded
Their coach should be congratulated on an excellent job in keeping his team afloat considering the loss of Scott and Thurston not too mention losing Coote and a few others throughout the year.

Green has done an excellent job, no doubt about that. I'd take him as coach in a nano second.
But I think making excuses for Hasler is off base. The issue on the team there are entirely of his making. The back ending, the frustration with rigid game plans. He has a great record, but he also has a record for doing well for several seasons then the team going to shit. And that going to shit is directly as a result of his strategies. I'm not sure that he will ever match his record again as his style of coaching is so rigid. Maybe he can adapt to the way the games going, but he hasn't yet.

 

[Crush]

Do you think they are happy clubs?
Do you think their morale is high?

I think its a great excuse for coaches that can't put wins on the board. Bringing drive and morale is a huge part of a coaches job. An inspirational coach should be able to focus the group despite the noise in the background.
I think its a cop out to dismiss any fault of the coaches here when they fail to qualify for finals given their rosters.
We give it to our coach when we miss the eight, why not criticise these guys as well?
Its kinda like a successful pop artist that has released number 1 hits then goes on and makes a bunch of shit songs that people still buy based on their reputation. If they are shit songs they are shit songs....

 

[The Damo]

Do you think they are happy clubs?
Do you think their morale is high?

Do you think the coach has any responsibility for those things?

 

[Old Timer]

Green has done an excellent job, no doubt about that. I'd take him as coach in a nano second.
But I think making excuses for Hasler is off base. The issue on the team there are entirely of his making. The back ending, the frustration with rigid game plans. He has a great record, but he also has a record for doing well for several seasons then the team going to shit. And that going to shit is directly as a result of his strategies. I'm not sure that he will ever match his record again as his style of coaching is so rigid. Maybe he can adapt to the way the games going, but he hasn't yet.

Not so much trying to make excuses for Hasler just pointing some of what he is contending with
It is obvious that Hasler can coach and his track record speaks for itself
It is not as if you can coach 1 day and then you wake up the next day and you can't coach
He may be responsible for the poor roster but that is an entirely different matter
Do I think the style the Dogs play is stale and a bit outdated probably so but do I think they would respond to something different I doubt it because I think their squad is ponderous.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Power play/game is absolute BS and has many followers hook line and sinker, except the opposition players and coaches.
Every team has a power game and like us, sometimes our pack win and sometimes not.
FFS.
Storm have a power game, in the forwards, halves and backs.
We have a power game in the forwards and occassionally the halves, that has been defeated by opposition 'power'.

What a load of wank - 'power game'.

McGee-up's spin for - we have slow backs.

ALSGI
It's Mcgoose new word for dragons football lol

 

[Old Timer]

I think its a great excuse for coaches that can't put wins on the board. Bringing drive and morale is a huge part of a coaches job. An inspirational coach should be able to focus the group despite the noise in the background.
I think its a cop out to dismiss any fault of the coaches here when they fail to qualify for finals given their rosters.
We give it to our coach when we miss the eight, why not criticise these guys as well?
Its kinda like a successful pop artist that has released number 1 hits then goes on and makes a bunch of shit songs that people still buy based on their reputation. If they are shit songs they are shit songs....

Not for a moment saying they shouldn't be criticised I am just pushing back on the notion that they can't coach.
The issue here is some decide to justify Mc Fookknuckle by making comparisons to other coaches
I simply believe he should be judged on what he has done himself regardless of what anybody else achieves
In respect of Hasler and Maguire they have underachieved this year no doubt but is that enough to say they can't coach I don't think so.

 

[Old Timer]

Do you think the coach has any responsibility for those things?

Yes they play a role in it however if you have extraneous issues creating unwanted tension and disharmony then the coach is well and truly up against it.