Aaron Woods

[ouryears]

Seriously.
3 months into a 4 year multi million dollar deal and if the reports are true he could be running out for the Sharks as soon as next week.

What the hell is going on at rugby league HQ.
Now while Hasler, Castle and the Bulldogs board must take most of the blame for this farce, what the hell was the rugby league hierarchy thinking when they registered all these contracts, they must have seen the numbers and known they didn’t add up?

Who, if anybody, is running this game we all love?

Rorting and money in back pockets mate.

Looking after ya mates syndrome.

Nothing professional is going on that's for certain.

 

[Old Timer]

Surely it’s not up to the NRL to manage a team’s cap? As long as they are cap compliant each year, then that’s where their jurisdiction ends.

My understanding is the reason why the Dogs are in this mess is:

- they incorrectly predicted the cap would be around $10m
- they have backended a number of contracts
- some contracts have risen notionally in line with the salary cap (this is no longer allowed)
- they have massively overpaid guys like Woods and Foran

From my perspective, this is all on the Dogs. The salary cap is a science which good teams master, and other teams like the Dogs balls up.

If the NRL set the cap, administer it, police it and register contracts it can’t be too hard for them to run a spreadsheet for each club and just add and subtract as contracts are amended, added and cancelled
How stupid is it that they register all contracts and provide auditors to ensure compliance yet issue no warnings for potential breaches
Ridiculous

 

[giboz71]

If the NRL set the cap, administer it, police it and register contracts it can’t be too hard for them to run a spreadsheet for each club and just add and subtract as contracts are amended, added and cancelled
How stupid is it that they register all contracts and provide auditors to ensure compliance yet issue no warnings for potential breaches
Ridiculous

Why should they? As I said their job is to police the cap, not help clubs how to manage it.

The NRL set the cap, it’s up to each club to make sure they are compliant. There are many factors that help teams stay cap compliant, front and back ending contracts, 3rd parties, focusing on juniors, veterans exemptions etc.

It’s a science as I said and the better clubs know how to manage it. Other clubs cheat like the Dogs in 2002 and the Storm in the 2000’s, other clubs like the Dogs now just screw it up so they can’t buy players for 3 years.

These clubs are professional sporting teams, surely they should know how to add and subtract as well?

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Why should they? As I said their job is to police the cap, not help clubs how to manage it.

The NRL set the cap, it’s up to each club to make sure they are compliant. There are many factors that help teams stay cap compliant, front and back ending contracts, 3rd parties, focusing on juniors, veterans exemptions etc.

It’s a science as I said and the better clubs know how to manage it. Other clubs cheat like the Dogs in 2002 and the Storm in the 2000’s, other clubs like the Dogs now just screw it up so they can’t buy players for 3 years.

These clubs are professional sporting teams, surely they should know how to add and subtract as well?

What if it had worked?
What if during the last two years the Dogs had won a premiership?
By paying players that are worth 1.5 million over three years, but they start on 200 grand the first year, they stack thier team with stars, win the title, knowing full well they will have to move them on in three years to be under the cap, but who cares cause we won a title.
Because this was the plan.
It’s rorting the cap, sanctioned by the NRL who registered those three year contracts knowing full well they would never honour the last years.

 

[Old Timer]

Why should they? As I said their job is to police the cap, not help clubs how to manage it.

The NRL set the cap, it’s up to each club to make sure they are compliant. There are many factors that help teams stay cap compliant, front and back ending contracts, 3rd parties, focusing on juniors, veterans exemptions etc.

It’s a science as I said and the better clubs know how to manage it. Other clubs cheat like the Dogs in 2002 and the Storm in the 2000’s, other clubs like the Dogs now just screw it up so they can’t buy players for 3 years.

These clubs are professional sporting teams, surely they should know how to add and subtract as well?

Simple answer is that many clubs cheat
So how about every single club cheats and just ignores the NRL what would they do then?
The NRL administer the game so they should be vigilant and to be that you need to be informed and the best way to do that is to have knowledge.

 

[giboz71]

What if it had worked?
What if during the last two years the Dogs had won a premiership?
By paying players that are worth 1.5 million over three years, but they start on 200 grand the first year, they stack thier team with stars, win the title, knowing full well they will have to move them on in three years to be under the cap, but who cares cause we won a title.
Because this was the plan.
It’s rorting the cap, sanctioned by the NRL who registered those three year contracts knowing full well they would never honour the last years.

So what?

If it’s a strategy that all clubs can employ and ts a level playing field then fair play to the clubs who can pull it off.

And how can the NRL predict what clubs are going to do in the future and which players they will offload to stay cap compliant?? Too many variables are at play so they can’t not register contracts in a given year thinking they will be over the cap in 3 years time?

As I said, there is a salary cap each year and it’s up to each club to stay within it. If you as a club screw it up, then it’s on you.

 

[possm]

To a degree mate, but if I get 6 contracts on my desk showing 6 players will earn $1milliin each in 2019, for a total of $6 million for just 6 players......I would be calling in the CEO of that club and an independent accountant for a hard nosed meeting.

It's not hard, it just doesn't matter to them.

They choose what's important.

It's a rort.

Isn't a full time salary cap auditor employed at the NRL?
Shouldn't the NRL have records by club by player contract by year?
Maybe some spreadsheet training is in order at the NRL.
In my view, the NRL should be constantly checking salary cap info to ensure that all is in order..

 

[possm]

Rorting and money in back pockets mate.

Looking after ya mates syndrome.

Nothing professional is going on that's for certain.

Call in the police and the tax man; the rorting will quickly come to a halt. There needs to be a declaration signed by the club and attached to each player contrat stating that the contract is salary cap compliant. Only then will clubs be held accountable and open to legal action by the NRL and players.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

So what?

If it’s a strategy that all clubs can employ and ts a level playing field then fair play to the clubs who can pull it off.

And how can the NRL predict what clubs are going to do in the future and which players they will offload to stay cap compliant?? Too many variables are at play so they can’t not register contracts in a given year thinking they will be over the cap in 3 years time?

As I said, there is a salary cap each year and it’s up to each club to stay within it. If you as a club screw it up, then it’s on you.

But they are not registering a contract for a year, they are registering a three year contract.
If you pay 10 players 200 grand the first year, but 800 grand the second, your over the cap for the second, but have an unfair advantage in the first cause you’ve registered players at way under fair market value.
Technically under your cap you could sign the entire Australian team for a $1 in the first year and a million the next, you not going to pay the million next year, but only half cause you’ve moved players on, but you won the title.
That’s an extreme example, but’s ts what we are talking about.

 

[Old Timer]

So what?

If it’s a strategy that all clubs can employ and ts a level playing field then fair play to the clubs who can pull it off.

And how can the NRL predict what clubs are going to do in the future and which players they will offload to stay cap compliant?? Too many variables are at play so they can’t not register contracts in a given year thinking they will be over the cap in 3 years time?

As I said, there is a salary cap each year and it’s up to each club to stay within it. If you as a club screw it up, then it’s on you.

The trouble with your idea is you only ever find out well after the season is over and in some cases several years on.
The NRL owes it to the fans (after all without us they have got SFA) and to the compliant clubs and their players to ensure that each season is competed for on an even basis and that whoever wins that year has done so fair and square.
The compliant clubs have a good roster and get beaten and then 2 years on the winner is found to have breached and are stripped of the premiership, FMD where is the equity or fairness in that for the fans or the compliant clubs?
You are trying to find ways for the NRL not to do what is in fact a very simple task. Any person with good spread sheet skills could do this in their sleep.

 

[The Damo]

One of the constraints on the nrl policing these shenanigans would be the restraint of trade laws. If they refused to register a contract because they say it would make the club over he cap in 3 years, they might be vulnerable to legal action by the player. Don’t know for sure but I suspect that’s part of the story.

 

[MilanDragon]

What they essentially need to have is a ‘projected cap’ for the next 3 seasons too tgst cannot go over the current salary cap.

So for example if the cap is a flat 10mil this season your spending 10mil.

However next season you (somehow) have your whole roster signed too and it’ll be 10mil again.

However in +2 seasons yiu only have 20 players signed (back ended deals) for say 9 million, that would leave the club with 1 mil cap room for 10 players which is still okay, as you allow for each vacant space the minimum spend of 85k.

In +3 season those same 20 signed players take up 9.5mil of the cap and that would mean you can’t afford to have 10 more players signed.

In that case the NRL could have a rule where you must be cap compliant for future seasons too before registering contracts.

I strongly believe it’s up to the club to do it but the NRL of course has to enforce it, honestly I’m sure they could add an extra body, pay them 100k a year to do the job of salary cap projections.

As mentioned earlier successfully managing the cap is a science and art form but you can be very strategic with it,

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

I thought there was already a rule where a club had to register a player at “fair market value” isn’t that why the Roosters had to give Cronk a million this year and not 100 grand this year and 900 after he retired?

 

[ouryears]

So what?

If it’s a strategy that all clubs can employ and ts a level playing field then fair play to the clubs who can pull it off.

And how can the NRL predict what clubs are going to do in the future and which players they will offload to stay cap compliant?? Too many variables are at play so they can’t not register contracts in a given year thinking they will be over the cap in 3 years time?

As I said, there is a salary cap each year and it’s up to each club to stay within it. If you as a club screw it up, then it’s on you.

That's no way to run a club, that's no way to build a team your fans can be proud of and follow. That's no way to treat you players, your fans and your sponsors.

Win a title then move most of the players on, paying half their wages and having a team that will then run last or second last for a few years.

If you think that is ok, then something is seriously wrong with your thinking mate.

It's absurd.

 

[Old Timer]

20 July 1969 man landed on the moon and here we are in June 2018 and people are talking about the science and difficulty of managing a salary cap.
FMD it isn't that difficult it is just a matter of proper guidelines, simple mathematics, and living within your budget.
Complete transparency and the harshest of penalties (deregistering the club for ??? years) is the the only way to ensure that a level playing field is on offer.

 

[ouryears]

But they are not registering a contract for a year, they are registering a three year contract.
If you pay 10 players 200 grand the first year, but 800 grand the second, your over the cap for the second, but have an unfair advantage in the first cause you’ve registered players at way under fair market value.
Technically under your cap you could sign the entire Australian team for a $1 in the first year and a million the next, you not going to pay the million next year, but only half cause you’ve moved players on, but you won the title.
That’s an extreme example, but’s ts what we are talking about.

Ban back ended contracts.

It's a rort, it's a joke and it stinks.

The club does not belong to those running it, the club belongs to its members and fans.

By law you have to run a club professionally and in its best interests, it's its part of company law.

Using back ended contracts knowing you will have to sack players, move them on but still pay half their wages is not acting in the clubs best interests.

Fans should get a class action happening to stop their clubs doing it.

ACCC should step in.

It's illegal.

 

[Old Timer]

Forgot to say the ability of clubs over the cap to move players on by paying a % of their wage whilst the new club pays a reduced figure (ala James Graham) should be banned immediately.
If you sign him and need to move him on then you pay the entire wage or the club he is going to buys out 100% of his contract.
This would IMO put a quick end to back ended contracts as some clubs in an effort to win a premiership employ this tactic and when it turns to shit stupid clubs like us let them off the hook.
Then players agent might actually ask the NRL to have a look at the club their player is potentially going to to ensure there is enough room under the cap for him to stay their for the entirety of his contract.

 

[giboz71]

That's no way to run a club, that's no way to build a team your fans can be proud of and follow. That's no way to treat you players, your fans and your sponsors.

Win a title then move most of the players on, paying half their wages and having a team that will then run last or second last for a few years.

If you think that is ok, then something is seriously wrong with your thinking mate.

It's absurd.

Of course it’s no way to run a club. I’d be filthy if I was a Dogs fan.

But I’ll say it once again, it’s not up to the NRL to teach clubs to run themselves properly. The Dogs haven’t broken any cap rules even if they have screwed themselves for the next few years.

Hasler had a strategy to win a comp within a given window. It didn’t work, so tough shit. If he had won a comp, he’d be a hero and we wouldn’t even be talking about this.

It’s why there was a cleanout at the Dogs with a new coach and a totally new administration. The Dogs have paid for their lack of foresight.

It is what t is. I’m just glad it’s not us.

 

[giboz71]

20 July 1969 man landed on the moon and here we are in June 2018 and people are talking about the science and difficulty of managing a salary cap.
FMD it isn't that difficult it is just a matter of proper guidelines, simple mathematics, and living within your budget.
Complete transparency and the harshest of penalties (deregistering the club for ??? years) is the the only way to ensure that a level playing field is on offer.

Cheating the cap and mismanaging the cap are completely different things.

Absolutely throw the book at cheats who exceed the cap and have illegal 3rd party payments. Deregister the lot of them I say.

But if we’re talking about the Dogs in recent years, they haven’t broken any rules. In fact, the drastic moves they are making is to stay cap compliant. That’s on them for not knowing how to manage their own cap.

15 other sides don’t seem to have a problem, in fact our team is a great example of how to manage a 30 man squad, and not overpaying for players whilst still being competitive.

 

[Frank Facer]

20 July 1969 man landed on the moon and here we are in June 2018 and people are talking about the science and difficulty of managing a salary cap.
FMD it isn't that difficult it is just a matter of proper guidelines, simple mathematics, and living within your budget.
Complete transparency and the harshest of penalties (deregistering the club for ??? years) is the the only way to ensure that a level playing field

And 49 years later, there are still no official reports of man going back to the moon.