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AFL 2006 - Round 12 (Split Round)

CyberKev

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camsmith said:
Wish Richo was playing, i'd love to see Richo rip Dawson apart.

After watching Richo go around against us in the NAB, I wish he was playing too.

Talk centered (as is per usual) pregame on how he'd get 12+ and I think he got 0 from memory.

Richo has only kicked 40 goals from his combined 15 career games against Hawthorn, which is a sound effort, but subpar for a player of his ability.
 

CyberKev

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Adelaide
Fremantle
Western Bulldogs
West Coast
Richmond
Melbourne
Kangaroos
Sydney

Suffice to say, Melbourne get to be the 'lock of the round'.
 

meltiger

First Grade
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6,268
CyberKev said:
Richo has only kicked 40 goals from his combined 15 career games against Hawthorn, which is a sound effort, but subpar for a player of his ability.

With due respect, that is only slightly lower than his career average, which is on par with the other champion CHF's of the last 20 years.
 

CyberKev

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meltiger said:
With due respect, that is only slightly lower than his career average, which is on par with the other champion CHF's of the last 20 years.

Yes, except that at Richmond, Richo has been pushed into playing an amalgamated CHF/FF role as the central forward of choice at the club, with the side regularly running 90%+ of forward ball through him.

Its surprising that his overall average isn't higher on the strength of this, but Hawthorn would be happy enough to have him running below average against them over his career.

It should also be noted that big Richo tallies would normally coincide with Richmond wins and Richo has only ever had one big day out against Hawthorn, kicking 7/3 against us in 1996.
 

meltiger

First Grade
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6,268
I still stand by that his average is comparable to the other champion CHF's of the game. For that matter, so is his accuracy, contrary to the commonly held belief that he can't kick for goal.


I wonder how many of the Hawthorn games were like last year, where he returned 8 goals from a total of 8 shots on goal...


More importantly though, if Richo was playing, Dawson and Roughead would be double teaming him, leaving the team wide open.


At the end of the day it's all irrelevant though, the team has shown over the last few weeks we can be competitive without Richo.


Still, all my teasin aside, the game will go down to the wire.
 

CyberKev

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meltiger said:
I still stand by that his average is comparable to the other champion CHF's of the game. For that matter, so is his accuracy, contrary to the commonly held belief that he can't kick for goal.

It is, but most CHFs have played to a different team structure wherein they are not the sole (or central) goalkicking forward. This has been a key factor in Richmond's struggles over the years, with an over-reliance on Richo rendering the side flimsy when he has been missing (or off his game).

meltiger said:
I wonder how many of the Hawthorn games were like last year, where he returned 8 goals from a total of 8 shots on goal...

I think you mean 4 from 8. As I've contended before, your overt privileging of scoring shots as a key factor as to how a game has played out is exceedingly misleading at times. Not only can this indicate that forwards from the errant side have been taking shots under extreme pressure, but it also ignores the state of general ground play. Its perfectly possible for a side to have much the better of general play (and have as many, if not more inside 50s), but have less scoring shots than the opposition. Its also not overly rare for a side to win with less scoring shots, simply because its forward setup has been stronger and more efficient, meaning it has generally been shooting from more favourable positions.

Aside from this, on that particular day Richmond ran 90%+ of its ball through Richo and had 64 inside 50s. This meant that the ball was in his general vicinity over 50 times, and yet he could only kick 4/4 on a very inexperienced opponent (who returned greater mark, effective possession and contested ball stats, and also provided plenty of rebound 50 ball the other way). Its also true that 1 goal was from a painfully soft free and another came when he was out of position and being temporarily manned by Hay, and the ball fell fortuitously in the right spot.

meltiger said:
More importantly though, if Richo was playing, Dawson and Roughead would be double teaming him, leaving the team wide open.

a) Dawson will most likely not play.
b) Hawthorn gave up the double-teaming approach with this pair after the Sydney game, given that it only caused confusion among both players.

meltiger said:
At the end of the day it's all irrelevant though, the team has shown over the last few weeks we can be competitive without Richo.

It has.

Although the wins have only been against sides ranked 14th & 16th on the table and enduring their worst periods in years.

It'll be more apt to see how a Tiger forward line (sans Richo) would fare in a conventional game plan against a genuine finals side.

That said, the signs are looking a lot better.
 

CyberKev

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Good news for the Tigers.

It seems that Sam Mitchell will again miss this fixture with a leg injury.

Can't confirm this, however.
 

meltiger

First Grade
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CyberKev said:
Its also true that 1 goal was from a painfully soft free

Oh give me a break please. I assume you've been watching this game on 'Last time we met' - You may have glossed over the fact that Hawthorn kicked no less than SEVEN goals in that game directly from free kicks.


As for your assertion that we ran entirely through Richo ... What a bunch of utter crap ...

Richmond 20. 17. (137) def. Hawthorn 21. 7. (133)

37 scoring shots, of which I believe 6 were from Richo (I'm sure he kicked 2 out on the full), although even if you say he kicked 4.4 - That still leaves 29 scoring shots to other players.

Yes Roughead had 21 posessions ... His opponent also had 8 shots at goal.


I suppose you'll also tell me the game was close based on the scoreboard ...

64 Inside 50's for 37 shots on goal is a fair return.

CyberKev said:
Although the wins have only been against sides ranked 14th & 16th on the table and enduring their worst periods in years.

Richo played against Essendon ...


I think most importantly is the fact they went to Perth without him and should have won. The fact they didn't had nothing to do with the fact he wasn't playing.
 

meltiger

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CyberKev said:
Good news for the Tigers.

It seems that Sam Mitchell will again miss this fixture with a leg injury.

Can't confirm this, however.

Geez, Box Hill will be struggling given the amount of players Hawthorn must be calling on.
 

CyberKev

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meltiger said:
Yes Roughead had 21 posessions ... His opponent also had 8 shots at goal.

On a majority of occasions Roughead beat Richardson in the air and on the ground, which was fab for a first year tall in his 3rd game at CHB with limited support. With 50+ inside 50s coming Richo's way, and limited support available in a depleted and inexperienced defence, it could have been far worse.

meltiger said:
I suppose you'll also tell me the game was close based on the scoreboard ...

Yawn. It was a game of two halves.

Hawthorn were missing about half its side yet would have been 12+ goals up at the main break (on balance of play) had they had a decent forward structure.

The fact that Richmond entered the second half a hell of a lot closer than they deserved to be, and Hawthorn ran out of legs through missing half its midfield and not having the necessary rotations to see out a full game had more impact than the Tigers errant kicking at goal (mainly under pressure).

Assuming any of it really matters, given that Richmond got the four points (which is all that really matters) and Hawthorn got Beau Dowler as a consolation prize.
 

CyberKev

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meltiger said:
Geez, Box Hill will be struggling given the amount of players Hawthorn must be calling on.

Given the general calibre of player coming from the Box Hill contingent of the partnership, I dare say it would be ill-advised to throw money at them this weekend.

Of course, I'm not as unhappy ovver Mitchell as I should be.

From a glass is half full perspective it gives an opportunity for Ben McGlynn to get more midfield game time.
 

Red Bear

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Hirds back for the Bombers, could and should make SOME sort of difference. Lovett, Watson, Camporele, Bradley all back also. Hell, we may even only lose by , i dunno, 5 goals?
 

Red Bear

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Tanking = weak. Essendon coulda taked last year with ease but we didnt, we aint going to this year. It's a decidedly stronger sid out there this week compared to the last couple
 

meltiger

First Grade
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CyberKev said:
On a majority of occasions Roughead beat Richardson in the air and on the ground, which was fab for a first year tall in his 3rd game at CHB with limited support. With 50+ inside 50s coming Richo's way, and limited support available in a depleted and inexperienced defence, it could have been far worse.

Yet 27 shots on goal were the result of other players ... Not Richo. Your claim they ran 90%+ ball through Matty is ludicrous.

I notice you ignored being challenged over your whinging about Richo's soft free kick ... An admission that the umpires were the sole reason Hawthorn led in the first half? Hawthorn kicked an absoloutely disgraceful number of goals which were the direct result of free kicks that afternoon.


CyberKev said:
Hawthorn got Beau Dowler as a consolation prize.


& we got Cleve Hughes ... Point being?


Anyway you are right, it IS all irelevant now in 2006, I for one am unhappy playing them coming off a virtual 100 point spanking. :(


Our game will be the closest of the round. That is for certain.

If we have the courage to see out the inevitable hardness of the first quarter we should win, I could also see Hawthornbeing up 6 goals at quarter time though.
 

meltiger

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Anyway, back to the footy ... St Kilda really were poor last night. Makes you wonder how good Melbourne is in comparison to the Crows/Eagles given Saints got within 2 goals of the Dees.


Then again, Richmond beat them (Crows) and I think we all know Richmond are no where near their level. Maybe was just their night last night?
 

lockyno1

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GoTheBears said:
Tanking = weak. Essendon coulda taked last year with ease but we didnt, we aint going to this year. It's a decidedly stronger sid out there this week compared to the last couple

I will love to hear why we have a better side this year? Come on I am going to love this! No hird for most of the yr, our best forward is out, hille is playing like s..t, our backs are being saved by having scores put on them every week by Fletcher. Our young players are all 12-18mths off. We are crap. Tanking or not, it is what we need.
 

lockyno1

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meltiger said:
Anyway, back to the footy ... St Kilda really were poor last night. Makes you wonder how good Melbourne is in comparison to the Crows/Eagles given Saints got within 2 goals of the Dees.


Then again, Richmond beat them (Crows) and I think we all know Richmond are no where near their level. Maybe was just their night last night?

Said this before Tiger....no Heyes, no saints. He is that important!
 

Twizzle

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they just had a bad game last night, I dont think its an indication of how they are playing this year
 

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