AFL 2006 - Round 8

[CyberKev]

In a game filled with ungracious losers ... That is a fantastic thing for Craig to admit too.

Craig has been quite hypocritical in the past, but even he would have seen how bad it would have looked for him to have openly bagged the Tiger approach.

I thought he had a poor game in two respects yesterday.

Firstly, why you would leave Riccuito (brilliantly nullified by Raines) wasting away at FF, rather than bringing him into the midfield (and into the game) is mistifying.

Secondly, he should have nullified the Richmond approach early on by instructing his side to go man-on-man. In current football, this style of play does not come naturally, but any side should be able to stick tight to such an approach for at least a quarter. You do that and you force constant contests and ensure that the opposition's resolve for playing keepings off is eroded. Inevitably the game will slip into a more conventional contest as a result.

 

[CyberKev]

Well, I have to be man enough to admit that I have totally misread the Magpies going into season 2006. As far as I'm concerned, loathe them or hate them, they are the real deal.

As for Geelong?

Dear oh dear, what the bloody hell did we do to them down at Cattown in round 3, as they haven't looked close to recovering since?!

They're gone for all money, and will need to find 4 quality players (2 forwards and 2 outside mids) over the next two draft/trade periods to be a genuine premiership force. The good news for them is that their side is young enough to hang solid until these players are found.

Melbourne?

They've found some touch and are playing well, but I still feel they lack the serious midfield grunt to trouble the top sides. They won't strike sides as lax and undisciplined as Hawthorn was too often.

 

[meltiger]

As for Geelong?

Dear oh dear, what the bloody hell did we do to them down at Cattown in round 3, as they haven't looked close to recovering since?!

They're gone for all money, and will need to find 4 quality players (2 forwards and 2 outside mids) over the next two draft/trade periods to be a genuine premiership force. The good news for them is that their side is young enough to hang solid until these players are found.

Wasn't Brad Ottens supposed to eb the saviour?


Remind me.... How many touches did the lazy, greedy, overated f**ker get last night?


Patto (Pick 16, 1 of the selections picked up in the trade) was better than Ottens yesterday .....

 

[meltiger]

Craig has been quite hypocritical in the past, but even he would have seen how bad it would have looked for him to have openly bagged the Tiger approach.

I thought he had a poor game in two respects yesterday.

Firstly, why you would leave Riccuito (brilliantly nullified by Raines) wasting away at FF, rather than bringing him into the midfield (and into the game) is mistifying.

Secondly, he should have nullified the Richmond approach early on by instructing his side to go man-on-man. In current football, this style of play does not come naturally, but any side should be able to stick tight to such an approach for at least a quarter. You do that and you force constant contests and ensure that the opposition's resolve for playing keepings off is eroded. Inevitably the game will slip into a more conventional contest as a result.

No Kudos to the Supercoach though?

 

[meltiger]

I'm suprised you missed your lover for praise though Kev,

Pac was very good yesterday. Difference between the two teams.

 

[CyberKev]

Wasn't Brad Ottens supposed to eb the saviour?


Remind me.... How many touches did the lazy, greedy, overated f**ker get last night?


Patto (Pick 16, 1 of the selections picked up in the trade) was better than Ottens yesterday .....

Ottens is certainly struggling, although he remains a better footballer than Troy Simmonds. That said, while Simmonds is overpaid, Ottens is massively so on performances, so Richmond are ahead on that.

Ottens can still prove useful to the Cats in a revised role where his focus is as a mobile ruckman/cum relieving forward, but he is NOT going to get them to a flag playing predominantly as a CHF. I'm also not sure that Nathan Ablett can be the long-term answer at FF either. Frankly, I think the Cats were daft for overlooking Cleve Hughes in the last draft. There are a number of hot KPP forward prospects on offer in the upcoming draft, so Geelong will have to pick one up if the chance presents.

Pattison will, alas for the Tigers, not make it as a key forward. He moves too slowly and has a huge turning circle. I'd like to see him trialled more extensively at CHB where his straight ahead capacity may be better suited.

 

[CyberKev]

No Kudos to the Supercoach though?

LOL.

He's used this before to effect so it didn't surprise me.

Of course, its a simple tactic, but what surprised me more was that the Tiger players had the patience and diligence to execute it.

Wallace tried to do it the week after the massive 2000 Essendon upset and was made to pay by Hawthorn, partly because the Hawthorn structure could deal with it better than Essendon, partly because the element of surprise was lost, and partly because its too mentally taxing for sides to do on a regular basis.

I expected that Adelaide would cope better with it than they did. Again, Craig should have broken the back of it by halftime through simple man-on-man counter tactics, but I can only assume he was too sure that the Richmond side would wilt and/or his team would override it with their own play.

 

[CyberKev]

I'm suprised you missed your lover for praise though Kev,

Pac was very good yesterday. Difference between the two teams.

How could that be, he wasn't playing in the midfield, and its always the midfielders that win you games??!!

He's a rare gem in a mine of coarse coal at the Dockers.

People can say what they want, but if you moved Judd to the Dockers and put him in their midfield and moved Pavlich to West Coast and plopped him up forward, then West Coast would become markedly more formidable a unit (as their midfield is strong with or without the golden boy) and Judd would continue to average 20 possies a game in a mid-table (at best) Freo side.

 

[meltiger]

Pattison will, alas for the Tigers, not make it as a key forward. He moves too slowly and has a huge turning circle. I'd like to see him trialled more extensively at CHB where his straight ahead capacity may be better suited.

From what we are hearing out of the VFL ... Neither will the golden boy from Hawthorn... Got towled up again by a midfielder last week I hear... Maybe he needs another minder... Although I'll give him credit for his 4 yesterday.

Patto is getting better every week.

Patto could make it as a CHF in a side with Cleve as the FF, Cleve offers the mobility that Patto probab;y won't. I must say, the hit Patto put on one of the Crows players in the centre circle was wonderful stuff from a kid of his inexperience. Get 2-3 seasons into him and he will be a huge presence on the field.

Although I must say, I wouldn't be upset at all to see Wallace switch him and Jay, play Jay out of CHF & Adam out of CHB


Simmo overpaid? We are paying Simmo less than half of what we were paying Brad, (Nearly a third of what Geelong are paying the sh*t bastard) and getting more from him.


We offloaded Brad and his 400k plus a year, offloaded Fiora and his 15yo body, picked up Simmo, Meyer (Who was desperately unlucky yesterday to not have more of an impact, this kid will make it) and Pattison.


If you cannot see how much of a win the whole situation is for Richmond, then you are seriously blinkered by your desire to not see us be successful.

 

[camsmith]

Bit of a sh*tter for you there mate, but with Richmond winning i doubt you would care. Sydney are playing some damn good football at the moment.

Yeah bit of a bugger, but your right, when your team wins nothing else matters. Especially coming off a thumping.

Sydney are playing some good footy, as are the Pies... but with the pies.. once they travel a bit more and the season drags on i'ld like to see if they show as much enthusiasm as they have in the past weeks.

Sk.Kilda on the other hand.. i've tipped Carlton today more out of hope than anything. A carlton win (although a long shot) would just finish off my weekend beautifully.. as it would make it very hard for the Saints to come back from that low down and make the top 4.

 

[meltiger]

i've tipped Carlton today more out of hope than anything. A carlton win (although a long shot) would just finish off my weekend beautifully..

Me too ... Bit sad when a pair of Richmond supporters are hoping for a Blue win ;-) lol


Saints gget beat today ... Thomas may be in big trouble.


I must say though, if Rix does get a run today for St Kilda good luck to the lad.

 

[CyberKev]

From what we are hearing out of the VFL ... Neither will the golden boy from Hawthorn... Got towled up again by a midfielder last week I hear... Maybe he needs another minder... Although I'll give him credit for his 4 yesterday.

Load of sh*te! It would be a bit hard for Franklin to have been "towelled-up again by a midfielder" when he wasn't even playing! He missed the past fortnight with a wrist injury. I watched the Box Hill game (recorded off ABC2 on Wednesday night) yesterday and while Franklin was not in the side being towelled-up by a midfielder, young Dowler was making a solid fist of his VFL Seniors debut.

Patto is getting better every week.

Maybe, but he'll never make it as an AFL CHF, because he lacks the agility required. Bang him at CHB and he may surprise. Richmond erred by not taking Clark at the last draft and will most likely be looking to get hold of a gun tall at this draft. They did get luckier than any other side in draft history by scoring Hughes at 24, who I reckon will be very good. Clarke at FF, Hughes at CHF, Schulz at CHB, and (possibly) Thursfield at FB would have had a nice look about it. Pattison to CHB could minimise his weaknesses and help consolidate the Tiger spine in the short-to-medium term.

Patto could make it as a CHF in a side with Cleve as the FF, Cleve offers the mobility that Patto probab;y won't. I must say, the hit Patto put on one of the Crows players in the centre circle was wonderful stuff from a kid of his inexperience. Get 2-3 seasons into him and he will be a huge presence on the field.

This suggests he may be better suited to what he was originally touted as - a mobile ruck/cum relieving forward. While he will struggle badly at CHF, he could do okay resting in the square.

Simmo overpaid? We are paying Simmo less than half of what we were paying Brad, (Nearly a third of what Geelong are paying the sh*t bastard) and getting more from him.

LOL. I love your maths.

Simmonds is on $300k-$350k per season and Ottens is on $500k-$550k.

If you cannot see how much of a win the whole situation is for Richmond, then you are seriously blinkered by your desire to not see us be successful.

I'm not saying they haven't won, but at this point its only a win in the fiscal sense.

In the direct playing sense, the replacement for Ottens is Simmonds, and while he has also been ordinary at least he hasn't cost as much. That said, Ottens does have considerably more "go-up" than Simmo.

Over the long term the Tigers will (at worst) come out even from the move, most likely better, if luck is on their side a lot better.

 

[CyberKev]

Me too ... Bit sad when a pair of Richmond supporters are hoping for a Blue win ;-) lol

Bad luck, lads... Carlton smashed by the Saints today!

Stunning scoreline to the extent that Carlton could only get four goals for the match, and all of them came from Fevola. Fabulous game from Reiwoldt, who was back to the form he was in when robbed blind of the Brownlow in 2004. 9 goals to the big CHF meant that he comfortably defeated Carlton on his own.

Elsewhere, Brisbane all but condemned Port to a season doomed to a bottom four finish when they crushed them down at AAMI. The win will, in the short term, overshadow the news coming out of Brisbane that Leppitsch's season is probably over and his career is in jeopardy.

As I predicted here a couple of days ago, West Coast had a lot more trouble getting over Essendon than most pundits predicted. I had them down to win by 16, but in the end they recovered from a 2 goal deficit at three quarter time to run over a gallant Bomber outfit by a flattering 21 point margin.

 

[lockyno1]

What a joke!

I didn't see you in here talking this sh*t last season when both players were fit and Hodge was clearly playing the better football. Nor were you talking this crap across the opening month when both players were fit and Hodge was clearly playing the better football.

He has an ankle injury you fool, hence why he is being played away from the centre.

I'd like to see how Judd would go in the same circumstances.

Even allowing for that, he still managed to perform work off the ball and in adversity that Judd couldn't do in a fit.

Oh please Kev! The "injured" excuse again! If he is injured as you say why did he play! Judd is better and at least stays in the centre even if it means getting less disposals as it frees up his other mids. Hodge when the going got tough had a snooze in the back pocket!

As for last leason Judd was pretty good, just not as good as Cousins who picked up the brownlow or kerr who was 2nd in the brownlow. Heck Kev withought Judd the Eagles lose the flag by 5 goals!

 

[CyberKev]

Oh please Kev! The "injured" excuse again! If he is injured as you say why did he play! Judd is better and at least stays in the centre even if it means getting less disposals as it frees up his other mids. Hodge when the going got tough had a snooze in the back pocket!

Resting in the back pocket :roll:

Collecting 25 possessions (he also put in some time up forward) and making 8 tackles is real snooze time.

Clearly your uncritical infatuation with Judd stems from reading the media hype, but you should watch games more closely before saying such silly things.

Your question on why Hodge is playing injured has more merit. Frankly, I would have rested him weeks ago, but - of course - that would have seen Hawthorn castigated roundly for tanking.

Hawthorn will play him through everything other than a leg amputation because he is the best player at the club and has no peer in the comp for skills and smarts. Unlike most midfielders, Hodge can play anywhere on the paddock and perform well, as was the case on Friday night.

As for last leason Judd was pretty good, just not as good as Cousins who picked up the brownlow or kerr who was 2nd in the brownlow. Heck Kev withought Judd the Eagles lose the flag by 5 goals!

Last season Judd played well, but was behind Cousins, West, Hodge, Dal Santo, Kerr, Tuck & Riccuito for midfield play, hence why 3 of these players made the AA side and Judd didn't.

What did Judd actually accomplish in the GF besides slewing kicks all over the park? Had Judd not played and West Coast had 1 capable KPP then West Coast would have won. Hell, I think they may well have won had Judd not played and Phil Matera taken to the field. If anything, West Coast lifted when Kerr got on the paddock for the second half, and Cousins lifted his intensity. Judd can be good inside 50 as he knows how to kick a goal, but he failed to score in the GF and 15 possessions from Kerr will be at least as good as 30 from Judd. It should also be remembered that West Coast were 20 points down at halftime (with most of Judd's ball coming in the first half) and only 2 points down and surging after Kerr came on for the third term.

 

[lockyno1]

Resting in the back pocket :roll:

Collecting 25 possessions (he also put in some time up forward) and making 8 tackles (has Judd made 8 tackles in his entire career?) is real snooze time.

Clearly your uncritical infatuation with Judd stems from reading the media hype, but you should watch games more closely before saying such silly things.

Your question on why Hodge is playing injured has more merit. Frankly, I would have rested him weeks ago, but - of course - that would have seen Hawthorn castigated roundly for tanking.

Hawthorn will play him through everything other than a leg amputation because he is the best player at the club and has no peer in the comp for skills and smarts. Unlike most midfielders, Hodge can play anywhere on the paddock and perform well, as was the case on Friday night.



Last season Judd played well, but was behind Cousins, West, Hodge, Kerr, Tuck & Riccuito for midfield play, hence why 3 of these players made the AA side and Judd didn't.

What did Judd actually accomplish in the GF besides slewing kicks all over the park? Had Judd not played and West Coast had 1 capable KPP then West Coast would have won. Hell, I think they may well have won had Judd not played and Phil Matera taken to the field.

I watched both games Kev. Judd was not at his brilliant best this week but not far off. But unlike Hodge he stayed in the midfield. Injured or not that is where Hodge should have stayed. As for Hawthorn not getting "a taking"- um...you got thrashed anyway! What is different! Judd has been at his best this year and is making Hawthorn look rather silly by not taking him no1! As for last year, Tuck! WTF come on Richmond were good for 6 weeks last year and suddenly Tuck makes your best list! If you said Brett Kirk I would have said ok! But come on Kev! Thats scaping at the barrel for a go at Judd! I can see you just plain out hate Juddy for some reason!

Today's Bombers game was a good indication and continues our season of close losses. At least we saw the players put in today though. Monfries was great today.

 

[CyberKev]

I watched both games Kev. Judd was not at his brilliant best this week but not far off. But unlike Hodge he stayed in the midfield. Injured or not that is where Hodge should have stayed. As for Hawthorn not getting "a taking"- um...you got thrashed anyway! What is different!

Ridiculous! A player with a dodgy ankle in the midfield where you have to run and run hard. You're getting sillier with every post, Locky.

Judd has been at his best this year and is making Hawthorn look rather silly by not taking him no1!

Whenever Hodge has been fully fit he has played consistently better football than Judd. It was a good pick, regardless of the media hype surrounding Judd.

As for last year, Tuck! WTF come on Richmond were good for 6 weeks last year and suddenly Tuck makes your best list! If you said Brett Kirk I would have said ok! But come on Kev! Thats scaping at the barrel for a go at Judd! I can see you just plain out hate Juddy for some reason!

I should have put Kirk in ahead of Judd as well. And yes, Tuck had a better season than Judd last year too, as judged by getting more possession, more clearances and more contested ball.

I don't hate Judd, I hate the way he gets softly marked in comparison to every other gun player in the comp and continually takes home awards that other players have deserved more.

Unarguably, the most overated footballer in VFL/AFL history.

 

[lockyno1]

Ridiculous! A player with a dodgy ankle in the midfield where you have to run and run hard. You're getting sillier with every post, Locky.



Whenever Hodge has been fully fit he has played consistently better football than Judd. It was a good pick, regardless of the media hype surrounding Judd.



I should have put Kirk in ahead of Judd as well. And yes, Tuck had a better season than Judd last year too, as judged by getting more possession, more clearances and more contested ball.

I don't hate Judd, I hate the way he gets softly marked in comparison to every other gun player in the comp and continually takes home awards that other players have deserved more.

Unarguably, the most overated footballer in VFL/AFL history.

Then he should not have played Kev! If he was "injured" which as far as I am concerned is a copout excuse! Heck Mark Johnson played most of last year with ankle ligament damage yet he was on the ball most of the time. Hodge took the cheap way out.

Tuck! Don't get me started- if he is in the top 10 then I'm Santa Claus! He is a solid player but dear oh me is nowhere near top10!

You do hate Judd, I have not seen one post where you have admitted he has had a good game!

 

[meltiger]

Load of sh*te! It would be a bit hard for Franklin to have been "towelled-up again by a midfielder" when he wasn't even playing! He missed the past fortnight with a wrist injury. I watched the Box Hill game (recorded off ABC2 on Wednesday night) yesterday and while Franklin was not in the side being towelled-up by a midfielder, young Dowler was making a solid fist of his VFL Seniors debut.

OK, I will admit I took licence, what I read was getting beaten by midfielders, not last week.

Dowler's fit? That's good news, I've never had a problem with Dowler. But Lance is injured again eh? Hmmm at what point do we start sla.gging the kid off the way Richie got slandered by all and sundry last year?

Maybe, but he'll never make it as an AFL CHF, because he lacks the agility required. Bang him at CHB and he may surprise. Richmond erred by not taking Clark at the last draft and will most likely be looking to get hold of a gun tall at this draft. They did get luckier than any other side in draft history by scoring Hughes at 24, who I reckon will be very good. Clarke at FF, Hughes at CHF, Schulz at CHB, and (possibly) Thursfield at FB would have had a nice look about it. Pattison to CHB could minimise his weaknesses and help consolidate the Tiger spine in the short-to-medium term.

*sigh* Mitchell Clarke again ... Some teams Kev, don't feel they need to spend almost every draft pick on KPP. At this stage, we have Cleve, Jay, Adam & Will who all will make it. We also have young Limbach and McGuane at Coburg who are starting to have an impact. Will they both make it? Possibly not, but they have made great strides since Terry came on board.

If Cleve had not fallen through to us, then yes I would agree with you. Fact is, he did. We also picked up another gun midfielder to fit the game plan TW wants to implement.

With Adam at CHF, he possibly won't make it there, although you as well as anyone knows KPP don't come through until their 3rd year at best usually. Unless like Roughead for instance they are clearly going to be champions, who usually can hold their own instantly, even if they don't dominate. Personally, I would have thought long term, Adam would most likely play as a ruckmen as you say. Why TW touts him as a CHF I do not know, but then again, we are not the ones paid the big bucks to develop/coach the club. He may know something we don't. As I said before though, I wouldn't be upset to see Jay take CHF, the kid can play and has been held back by a combination of a bad attitude and injuries. From all reports though, his attitude improved out of sight last year when it became clear Terry wasn't going to play him in seniors until he put the work in. His injury this year - He got cleaned up in a text book Aaron Hammil special. Pure bad luck than anything. By the end of the season, Jay will have cemented his spot in the team.

Richmond's KPP stocks are not as bad as people make out. If we pick up another gun this year, then we should be set.... Without Mithcell Clarke.
-----------

Another later thought, we keep talking about CHF ... Cleve was the U18 CHF, why couldn't he be our long term CHF? Kicked 4 goals today for the Burgers at CHF. McGuane was in the bests too.

LOL. I love your maths.

Simmonds is on $300k-$350k per season and Ottens is on $500k-$550k.

I'm not saying they haven't won, but at this point its only a win in the fiscal sense.

In the direct playing sense, the replacement for Ottens is Simmonds, and while he has also been ordinary at least he hasn't cost as much. That said, Ottens does have considerably more "go-up" than Simmo.

Over the long term the Tigers will (at worst) come out even from the move, most likely better, if luck is on their side a lot better.

I was always led to beleive that Simmo was on considerably less than that. I will concede if you are right though. However,

Simmo has been absoloutely fantastic this year. He'd be in the top 3 of the best and fairest without a shadow of a doubt.

What's Brad done?

He may have more 'go up'... But when's he going to show it? This is now the 5th sh*t season in a row from him.

The fact is, Richmond picked up another ruckmen who is giving us more, we saved at minimum 100k a year (based on your numbers) and have picked up 2 gun kids who will be a part of the club for many many years.

Whilst Brad has gone on to do nothing, exactly the same as he would have done at Richmond.

How can you not consider us the winners?

 

[meltiger]

You do hate Judd, I have not seen one post where you have admitted he has had a good game!

You think he had a good game today?

Did you genuinely watch the game?