What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Alex McKinnon possibly Quadriplegic - Mclean guilty of dangerous throw - 7 weeks

How many weeks?

  • 1-2

    Votes: 53 42.7%
  • 3-4

    Votes: 25 20.2%
  • 5-6

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • 7-8

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • 9+

    Votes: 26 21.0%

  • Total voters
    124
Status
Not open for further replies.

Usain Bolt

Bench
Messages
3,734
Usain Bolt and Pugzley bringing their usual level of class to the thread.
Unsurprising.

jimmies-6-knowyourmeme.png
 

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
Messages
19,531
....so does anyone think we can do something (no idea what) for him? instead of bickering, something useful within what we can?

just putting it out there.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,002
....so does anyone think we can do something (no idea what) for him? instead of bickering, something useful within what we can?

just putting it out there.


You would hope that the NRL would be organising some stuff for him at games this weekend. Pass the bucket around for donations etc.

Maybe on of the knights members on the forum can contact the club and find out what if anything they've set up so we can advertise it on here?
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
I would assume that it would all be covered by the insurance as far as medical bills go so he shouldn't be out of pocket that way. Workers Comp insurance could also cover future lost earnings whilst he is unable to work
 

Tucantango

Juniors
Messages
230
The Storm players are mostly at fault. Especially the leg lifter. Yes Mckinnon's actions contributed to the accident but once a man is off his legs and above the perpendicular you can't blame him for what happens.

Lifting with a hand between the legs is a big no no. Lifting above the perpendicular is a big no no. Whatever you say about Mckinnon, if he wasn't put in that position in the first place he wouldn't have been in a situation to get hurt.

There should be a serious multi week suspension here.

As expected the Alex McKinnon debate has become quite intense, so I have decided to throw in my opinion as I believe this incident could see all concerned in the New South Wales Courts in the not so distant future. Nevertheless, Before going on let me firstly state that 'Bunnies' argument above has a lot of credibility.
I am not going to attest to being the world's greatest lawyer, however, and as alluded to above, it will not surprise me in the least if Alex McKinnon decides in the future to sue either (or altogether) the relevant players of the Melbourne storm, the Melbourne Storm, and NRL. I will explain.
In my honest opinion this unfortunate incident is one that has been waiting to happen! For example many of you would have now heard on TV and through various media outlets that the NRL is now going to rigidly enforce a ‘concussion rule’ because it has received stern legal advice that it could be potentially liable to past and present players who have sustained brain trauma as a result of unavoidable (and perhaps avoidable) collisions on the football field. In other words the NRL has received legal advice that it owes a greater ‘duty of care’ to the players.
Given this new position as far as the ‘concussion rule’ is concerned one only has to draw a simple analogy to the incident which has occurred to the poor and unfortunate Alex McKinnon. Ultimately the legality of the tackle will be a decision for other tribunals (and possibly Courts), and let me assure you the courts in this country have dealt with similar situations before and have come down with a firm hand when it was justified to do so. Maybe there are a few older members in this forum, who like me, remember the Rogers v. Bugden & Canterbury Football Club court decision back in 1986. This decision was later followed by another well-known NRL legal case of Jack v. Roberts.
For your benefit I will draw some ‘Union v. League’ comparisons as far as foul play is relevant; especially with respect to the rigidity of how union polices its game. The first example is the shoulder charge. In union it has been banned as far back as I can remember. At all levels of union such tackles result in ‘yellow cards’, and in more serious instances a ‘red cards’ (which are usually followed by severe suspensions). In league it has only recently been outlawed but it generally only presently results in the player being put on report. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see any player in the NRL ‘sin binned’ (the equivalent of union’s yellow card), or worse, being sent from the field! Admittedly there have been recent developments with respect to suspensions and I suspect they will continue.
The second example is the tackle above the shoulder. In union anything above the shoulder is treated in the same way as the shoulder charge as far as discipline is concerned. They actually stipulate the shoulder because it negates the, “it bounced up and hit the head” excuse which is so often used as a defence to a ‘high shot’ in league. The last example I will use here is the tackle going over the horizontal, which is regrettably what happened to Alex McKinnon. From my understanding, it is outlawed in both codes however I believe it is more severely policed and punished in union. I have never seen a player stay on the field in union. No discretion applies once the tackle is over the horizontal; the player is off for either ten or for the match.
Perhaps the question to be asked is why is union so strict in regard to the examples I have provided above? The answer is obviously primarily geared toward the safety of the players. Accordingly, and on a secondary level, it satisfies an acceptable standard of a ‘duty of care’ which thereby negates the potential exposure to lawsuits which union's governing bodies could otherwise face. If one were to peruse the law reports on the subject of personal injury in sport they would soon find that it is very common for judges to look at and compare other similar and like sports when determining acceptable standards of a ‘duty of care’. For mine I would not be surprised if a judge were to draw comparisons between union and league if the opportunity were to now arise with a high profile ‘personal injury’ league case. As I will suggest below, I believe one is now about to start simmering away.
I know there will be plenty of detractors out there ready to shout me down with comments like, “it's a game of footy, not ballet”, and to be perfectly honest I would agree with such people. League is after all a contact sport and what is most loved is the ‘biff’. In fact for most of us who have played the game and have sustained an injury it is akin to a badge of honour. To have copped a gash to the head which has left a scar, or in my case a broken nose (times three) have made for timeless and great ‘B-S’ stories down at the local club/pub, where very few now let the truth get in the way of a good story. No, I am merely coming at you from a legal perspective during a time, where from my legal experience, I am finding that most people seem to have better comprehension or understanding of their legal rights and obligations.
I am no expert in personal injury law and nor do I profess to be one, however I will state (from my limited knowledge of the area - and again I will stand corrected if anybody knows better) the following. As far as this area of law is concerned a club and/or the NRL could potentially be vicariously liable for the ‘foul play’ of a player(s) if it has not taken all the requisite steps deemed necessary, which are also within their organisational control, which deters and/or prevents such foul play. It doesn't necessarily just have to be about foul play, it is about the greater and general issue pertaining to a ‘duty of care’. As noted above with the example of the introduction of the new ‘concussion rule’, it was introduced because the NRL received legal advice that they owe this ‘duty of care’ to the players.
For me the Alex McKinnon incident is going to be one to watch for the future as far as a legal cases go. I will form no public opinion on the same – I will leave that to the experts in this area of the law. Suffice to say we now have a young lad who is likely to see the premature ending of his career. The flow on from his ending will be a substantial loss of present and future income. If I were a betting man I would have one on Alex McKinnon's manager seeking legal advice on behalf of his client in the near future; if he/she is worth their salt they no doubt will!
Tuc.
 
Last edited:

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
....so does anyone think we can do something (no idea what) for him? instead of bickering, something useful within what we can?

just putting it out there.

I'm sure the NRL and Newcastle are working on that right now and the Men of League, into the future, if needed.

I still find it hard to watch the incident, having my youngest bloke playing top level rep league at the moment, it certainly sends on chill up the spine.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,917
You would hope that the NRL would be organising some stuff for him at games this weekend. Pass the bucket around for donations etc.

Maybe on of the knights members on the forum can contact the club and find out what if anything they've set up so we can advertise it on here?

He won't need donations surely. The Knights, the NRL and insurance should have him covered.

Maybe a better option is if people want to give something, give it too the spinal wards of hospitals or something.
 
Last edited:

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,002
I would assume that it would all be covered by the insurance as far as medical bills go so he shouldn't be out of pocket that way. Workers Comp insurance could also cover future lost earnings whilst he is unable to work


He'll need extreme modifications to his home, new transport, re-skilling for a new career, physio for years to come if not decades, it all adds up.

Unless he sues the code and players for millions then I doubt the insurance payout will be enough to assist him completely.
 

Shorty

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
15,555
I clicked on this thread knowing it'd be a pretty heated debate.
It's an terrible injury but we seen that tackle all the time.
I agree it should be punished due to the severity of the injury, just because this injury doesn't happen often in tackles doesn't make it any less dangerous.

Hopefully he makes a strong recovery.
 

Tucantango

Juniors
Messages
230
I would assume that it would all be covered by the insurance as far as medical bills go so he shouldn't be out of pocket that way. Workers Comp insurance could also cover future lost earnings whilst he is unable to work

I don't believe Workers comp laws affect league. I have to check up to be sure, nevertheless even if they did I would hazard a guess and state that since uncle Barry O'Farrell changes the NSW Workers Comp laws which now severely and adversely impact on NSW workers in general; I doubt it!
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
I don't believe Workers comp laws affect league. I have to check up to be sure, nevertheless even if they did I would hazard a guess and state that since uncle Barry O'Farrell changes the NSW Workers Comp laws which now severely and adversely impact on NSW workers in general; I doubt it!

Yeah I wasn't sure on the workers comp side of things. It can be pretty safe to say that all medical bills will be paid by someone other than Alex and he will continue to get paid until his contract ends in October. After that who knows but I am sure the Knights and the NRL will try to provide him with training for a new profession and possibly a job if he wants to remain involved in League in some way, shape or form
 

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
As expected the Alex McKinnon debate has become quite intense, so I have decided to throw in my opinion as I believe this incident could see all concerned in the New South Wales Courts in the not so distant future. Nevertheless, Before going on let me firstly state that 'Bunnies' argument above has a lot of credibility.




I am not going to attest to being the world's greatest lawyer, however, and as alluded to above, it will not surprise me in the least if Alex McKinnon decides in the future to sue either (or altogether) the relevant players of the Melbourne storm, the Melbourne Storm, and NRL. I will explain.


In my honest opinion this unfortunate incident is one that has been waiting to happen! For example many of you would have now heard on TV and through various media outlets that the NRL is now going to rigidly enforce a ?concussion rule? because it has received stern legal advice that it could be potentially liable to past and present players who have sustained brain trauma as a result of unavoidable (and perhaps avoidable) collisions on the football field. In other words the NRL has received legal advice that it owes a greater ?duty of care? to the players.




Given this new position as far as the ?concussion rule? is concerned one only has to draw a simple analogy to the incident which has occurred to the poor and unfortunate Alex McKinnon. Ultimately the legality of the tackle will be a decision for other tribunals (and possibly Courts), and let me assure you the courts in this country have dealt with similar situations before and have come down with a firm hand when it was justified to do so. Maybe there are a few older members in this forum, who like me, remember the Rogers v. Bugden & Canterbury Football Club court decision back in 1986. This decision was later followed by another well-known NRL legal case of Jack v. Roberts.




For your benefit I will draw some ?Union v. League? comparisons as far as foul play is relevant; especially with respect to the rigidity of how union polices its game. The first example is the shoulder charge. In union it has been banned as far back as I can remember. At all levels of union such tackles result in ?yellow cards?, and in more serious instances a ?red cards? (which are usually followed by severe suspensions). In league it has only recently been outlawed but it generally only presently results in the player being put on report. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see any player in the NRL ?sin binned? (the equivalent of union?s yellow card), or worse, being sent from the field! Admittedly there have been recent developments with respect to suspensions and I suspect they will continue.




The second example is the tackle above the shoulder. In union anything above the shoulder is treated in the same way as the shoulder charge as far as discipline is concerned. They actually stipulate the shoulder because it negates the, ?it bounced up and hit the head? excuse which is so often used as a defence to a ?high shot? in league. The last example I will use here is the tackle going over the horizontal, which is regrettably what happened to Alex McKinnon. From my understanding, it is outlawed in both codes however I believe it is more severely policed and punished in union. I have never seen a player stay on the field in union. No discretion applies once the tackle is over the horizontal; the player is off for either ten or for the match.




Perhaps the question to be asked is why is union so strict in regard to the examples I have provided above? The answer is obviously primarily geared toward the safety of the players. Accordingly, and on a secondary level, it satisfies an acceptable standard of a ?duty of care? which thereby negates the potential exposure to lawsuits which union's governing bodies could otherwise face. If one were to peruse the law reports on the subject of personal injury in sport they would soon find that it is very common for judges to look at and compare other similar and like sports when determining acceptable standards of a ?duty of care?. For mine I would not be surprised if a judge were to draw comparisons between union and league if the opportunity were to now arise with a high profile ?personal injury? league case. As I will suggest below, I believe one is now about to start simmering away.




I know there will be plenty of detractors out there ready to shout me down with comments like, ?it's a game of footy, not ballet?, and to be perfectly honest I would agree with such people. League is after all a contact sport and what is most loved is the ?biff?. In fact for most of us who have played the game and have sustained an injury it is akin to a badge of honour. To have copped a gash to the head which has left a scar, or in my case a broken nose (times three) have made for timeless and great ?B-S? stories down at the local club/pub, where very few now let the truth get in the way of a good story. No, I am merely coming at you from a legal perspective during a time, where from my legal experience, I am finding that most people seem to have better comprehension or understanding of their legal rights and obligations.




I am no expert in personal injury law and nor do I profess to be one, however I will state (from my limited knowledge of the area - and again I will stand corrected if anybody knows better) the following. As far as this area of law is concerned a club and/or the NRL could potentially be vicariously liable for the ?foul play? of a player(s) if it has not taken all the requisite steps deemed necessary, which are also within their organisational control, which deters and/or prevents such foul play. It doesn't necessarily just have to be about foul play, it is about the greater and general issue pertaining to a ?duty of care?. As noted above with the example of the introduction of the new ?concussion rule?, it was introduced because the NRL received legal advice that they owe this ?duty of care? to the players.




For me the Alex McKinnon incident is going to be one to watch for the future as far as a legal cases go. I will form no public opinion on the same ? I will leave that to the experts in this area of the law. Suffice to say we now have a young lad who is likely to see the premature ending of his career. The flow on from his ending will be a substantial loss of present and future income. If I were a betting man I would have one on Alex McKinnon's manager seeking legal advice on behalf of his client in the near future; if he/she is worth their salt they no doubt will!




Tuc.

Just on the legal side (I don't have a law degree), would the matter (if it occurs) happen in a NSW Court - given the NRL Head Office is based in Sydney or Victoria - given the incident happened in Melbourne.

Regards, your legal opinion - surely, the fact that league is a contact sports and accidents will happen (causing, at times, serious injury) would have some standing and given that insurances would come into play would negate the ability to sue.
 

seanoff

Juniors
Messages
1,204
there has to be a response from the NRL. This has been coming for a while.

3 and 4 man tackles where the guy getting tackled is in a very vulnerable situation, esp once they are off the ground. it's pretty easy to lose control of the tackle.

now what that is, i don't know.

maybe the refs need to call held when forward progress is halted, like the NFL.

maybe any lifting of the legs is banned outright, i.e. lift the legs, gone. no ifs, buts or maybes.

maybe tackles are restricted to two guys.

i don't know

Poor bastard is in a lot of trouble if he's only got movement in one arm. there is a good chance that may be it for him.

if any lawyer approaches him, it's almost a slam dunk case against the NRL, Refs, Melbourne, Newcastle and the players in the tackle. failed in their duty of care to protect him from catastrophic injury. a court wouldn't intervene for a cut head or whatever, but this is another beast altogether.

hope he can at least get all his movement back without too much trouble. he is never ever playing league or any other contact sport ever again.
 
Messages
14,701
Someone was saying about workers comp and state laws, etc.

This actually happened in Victoria.

Are the Workers comp laws national? Or a state by state responsibility?

OR doesn't it matter if he is from NSW and hurt in VIC.

Just asking.
 
Messages
14,701
So many were scoffing when GI was dumped on his head TWICE against Manly last year.

The NRL should have done something then.

12 months later, we now have a poor bastard in an induced coma with terrible spinal injuries.

Some merkins laughing then are wringing their hands now.

This could and should have been avoided. NRL's lucky they banked that $50m last year. They're gonna need some of it now.
 

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
there has to be a response from the NRL. This has been coming for a while.

3 and 4 man tackles where the guy getting tackled is in a very vulnerable situation, esp once they are off the ground. it's pretty easy to lose control of the tackle.

now what that is, i don't know.

maybe the refs need to call held when forward progress is halted, like the NFL.

maybe any lifting of the legs is banned outright, i.e. lift the legs, gone. no ifs, buts or maybes.

maybe tackles are restricted to two guys.

i don't know

Poor bastard is in a lot of trouble if he's only got movement in one arm. there is a good chance that may be it for him.

if any lawyer approaches him, it's almost a slam dunk case against the NRL, Refs, Melbourne, Newcastle and the players in the tackle. failed in their duty of care to protect him from catastrophic injury. a court wouldn't intervene for a cut head or whatever, but this is another beast altogether.

hope he can at least get all his movement back without too much trouble. he is never ever playing league or any other contact sport ever again.

Even low tackles and front-on tackles driving the player backwards can cause the legs to lift - I believe it is not achievable.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
I don't think the Storm players went in to cause this kind of injury. Whether or not McKinnon "made it worse" by ducking his head is completely irrelevant; he should not have been put in that sort of position to begin with. The Storm are well-known, rightfully so, for pushing the boundaries as far as they will go with regard to tackling techniques, and it is not unfair for them to be scrutinised for it.

These sorts of tackles are, unfortunately, becoming more and more a part of the game, and should have been stamped out long ago. It is extremely unfortunate that it's basically taken a worst-case outcome to get the referees and judiciary to look at the problem, when this situation could and should have been avoided to begin with.

Smith should not have carried on like that, whether he knew about the severity of McKinnon's injury or not.
You Sir are a voice of sanity in a mad house.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top