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"American Rugby"?

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
I don't know about in Canada, but in the US it's simply referred to as football. I have no problem with finding different ways of marketing the game that are relevant to a particular country, but I really can't see how the pretence of being American can last. It's going to be tough to explain to people how this sport has a big following in other countries already, whilst being almost unknown to the public in the country where it was created! (By 'unknown', I mean unknown as 'American rugby')
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we pretend the sport was invented in America, more that it is 'American-style' rugby, as in better suited to Americans and more similar to American sports than 'traditional rugby' (union). And that would be a pretty accurate description IMO.
 

theblob

Juniors
Messages
23
Ah, fair enough! Greco-Roman wrestling originates in France after all, so there's a precedent of sorts.
 

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
How you can say that is beyond me. The scoring system (with the sole exception of the rouge) is the same in both. The method of restarting play after a tackle is identical in both. So is the method of restarting play after the ball goes out of bounds. The fundamental aspects of so-called "Canadian" football are American in origin, not Canadian. Even the names of the positions players have were imported from the US.

The few distinctively Canadian rules in so-called "Canadian" football are poorly understood and play a minor role in CFL or CIS games. About 3/4 of the players in the CFL went to American colleges where they played American football. Most coaches in the CFL are Americans who grew up with American football. One such coach once described his approach to the CFL as "I send my 12th man wide, the other coach sends his 12th man wide and we play American football."

Anyone who's watched RL and RU knows the games are played in fundamentally different ways, unlife American and "Canadian" football.
Check out Wikipedia if you don't agree that Canadian and American football have more differences than union and league. Go to Wikipedia and search "comparison of American and Canadian football" and then "comparison of rugby league and rugby union". Also - When McGill and Harvard met in the first cross border "football" game it was the Canadian game that in the ensuing years had the most effect on the two North American codes of football. Finally - the forerunners of the Canadian Football League began play in 1884 while the forerunners of the National Football League began play in 1920.
 

Poul

Juniors
Messages
729
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we pretend the sport was invented in America, more that it is 'American-style' rugby, as in better suited to Americans and more similar to American sports than 'traditional rugby' (union). And that would be a pretty accurate description IMO.

+++++ This is the point I have been trying to convey.
It won't be to pretend that the sport was invented in America, but rather to give it an American flavour, to assist its development in the USA.
By applying football terms to Rugby League, I believe will help give it that flavour.
I am not proposing that the game itself should be changed.
There is one group (www.unitedrugbyleague.com) that is proposing an 11-a side "gridiron rugby" to be played on American Football fields, and this could potentially lead to the formation of a third rugby code.
I believe the USARL should be proactive by taking possession of the name "American Rugby", and they should look at establishing an 11-a side version for high schoolers, with all the terminology from American Football.
This would make it very easy the for these juniors to be assimilated into the game, and then to make the transition to the the 13-a side senior verison of American Rugby
 

NRL-TGG

Guest Moderator
Messages
1,354
I can't believe anyone hasn't suggested this yet, but why not Major League Rugby?

Or something similar, Major League Baseball and Major League Soccer are set strongly as sports and the term Major League is familiar to Americans.

Similar names could be:
Major League Rugby League
Major Rugby League
Major League football
Major League Rugby 13
Major League 13 Rugby.
 

Poul

Juniors
Messages
729
I can't believe anyone hasn't suggested this yet, but why not Major League Rugby?

Or something similar, Major League Baseball and Major League Soccer are set strongly as sports and the term Major League is familiar to Americans.

Similar names could be:
Major League Rugby League
Major Rugby League
Major League football
Major League Rugby 13
Major League 13 Rugby.

In Australia, New Zealand, and England all fans know that the word "League" in Rugby League is integral to the name of the game.
However, it is my impression that in the USA this would not be the case.
The term "League" would describe the collection of teams.
Therefore, "Major League Rugby", I believe, would be percieved as a collection of rugby (union) teams.
I believe that in the USA we need a name that unambiguously distinguishes us from union, and has a distinct local flavour.
The name that I believe will best achieve that result is American Rugby.
 

NRL-TGG

Guest Moderator
Messages
1,354
How does American Rugby distinguish between Rugby Union and Rugby League?

To me it sounds very Rugby union, do Americans really call Rugby Union 'English Rugby?'.

either way it doesn't stop them using one of the other suggestions,

Major League Rugby League
Major Rugby League
Major League football
Major League Rugby 13
Major League 13 Rugby.

either way, the challenge for Rugby League will definitely be branding itself. Using one or both words of the sports name 'Rugby League' is going to create confusion.

It looks to me as though some entirely different is required.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,694
I can't believe anyone hasn't suggested this yet, but why not Major League Rugby?

Or something similar, Major League Baseball and Major League Soccer are set strongly as sports and the term Major League is familiar to Americans.

Similar names could be:
Major League Rugby League
Major Rugby League
Major League football
Major League Rugby 13
Major League 13 Rugby.

Not bad, not bad at all :thumn
 

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
How does American Rugby distinguish between Rugby Union and Rugby League?

To me it sounds very Rugby union, do Americans really call Rugby Union 'English Rugby?'.

either way it doesn't stop them using one of the other suggestions,

Major League Rugby League
Major Rugby League
Major League football
Major League Rugby 13
Major League 13 Rugby.

either way, the challenge for Rugby League will definitely be branding itself. Using one or both words of the sports name 'Rugby League' is going to create confusion.

It looks to me as though some entirely different is required.
I'm going to go out on a limb a little because I am not sure, but in Canada, rugby union is called rugby. So, as Canada and the United States are neighbours and very similar when it comes to sports I am going to assume Americans call rugby union, rugby. I believe calling rugby league "American Rugby" will, despite Poul's claims of separating league and union, do nothing but cloud the issue further.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
I'm going to go out on a limb a little because I am not sure, but in Canada, rugby union is called rugby. So, as Canada and the United States are neighbours and very similar when it comes to sports I am going to assume Americans call rugby union, rugby. I believe calling rugby league "American Rugby" will, despite Poul's claims of separating league and union, do nothing but cloud the issue further.
They also call rugby league 'rugby', they don't usually differentiate between the two codes at all. A lot of Americans I have spoken to have taken a while to understand that rugby league is the name of a sport, they usually think it's a reference to a specific league of some sort. Even when they do understand the basics, they still tend to think of both RL and RU as just variants on the sport of 'rugby', in the same way that there are different versions of pool. If RL is described as 'American-style Rugby' and RU as 'English-style Rugby', I guess that would be a lot easier to understand and also to remember which sport is which. It probably wouldn't be as much of a problem in Canada because there's a higher level of interest in RU and I think more people are probably aware that RL and RU are different sports.
 

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
They also call rugby league 'rugby', they don't usually differentiate between the two codes at all. A lot of Americans I have spoken to have taken a while to understand that rugby league is the name of a sport, they usually think it's a reference to a specific league of some sort. Even when they do understand the basics, they still tend to think of both RL and RU as just variants on the sport of 'rugby', in the same way that there are different versions of pool. If RL is described as 'American-style Rugby' and RU as 'English-style Rugby', I guess that would be a lot easier to understand and also to remember which sport is which. It probably wouldn't be as much of a problem in Canada because there's a higher level of interest in RU and I think more people are probably aware that RL and RU are different sports.
So how would calling rugby league "American Rugby" alleviate any of these problems?
 

Poul

Juniors
Messages
729
I like American Rugby...something needs to help us solve RL's identity crisis. The word 'league' here can never work.

I was hoping to hear the opnion of some actual Americans :shock:
(And I am assuming GTNYK is American)

I believe the phraseology "American Rugby", immediately identifies the game as one played by Americans in America, even if not so exclusively.

If one were to explain that they played "American Rugby", and described the playing positions and game terminology ( e.g., wide receiver, touchdown etc), I believe it would be patently obvious, even to the uninitiated, that this game was different from the "generic" rugby (i.e., English Rugby) with which some Americans may be familiar, and that it had an essential American quality.
I believe this will be the key to success of American Rugby.
 

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
I can see we're just going around in circles with this discussion. All I can say is, "Get involved with growing the sport of rugby league in Canada or the United States". If, by getting involved you can garner enough support to change the name of rugby league to American Rugby, then have at it. If you are involved already, great. If not, get out of your armchair and make a difference. Because re-branding rugby league will not grow the sport, but getting others involved and enthused about rugby league will.
 
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Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
So how would calling rugby league "American Rugby" alleviate any of these problems?
Because Americans think 'rugby league' is referring to a league of rugby rather than a sport, and if you mention 'rugby union' they usually just get confused as hell. At the moment, both codes are just described as 'rugby' and it must be pretty confusing for people who think they have got to grips with the sport only to see it being played another time with completely different rules. And at the moment it's pretty difficult to explain this without getting into complicated terminology. We're not talking about renaming the sport as a whole, just describing it as 'American rugby' in the USA so that it has an identity and people are able to differentiate it from RU and better understand that they are not the same. In Canada and everywhere else it would still be rugby league, as it is now.
 
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druzik

Juniors
Messages
1,804
Well in Poland we decided to go with the Rugby XIII brand. For a couple reasons.

1. Rugby Union in Poland already seems to be defining itself as Rugby XV and not just Rugby, sevens has taken off big in Poland and they are defining 15s and 7s as sepaate sports.

2. the Top Rugby Union comp in Poland is already called the 'Rugby League' and so that would probably confuse people and who knows what legalities it could throw up.

Anyway ... just saying how we have approached it in another country.
 

billy2

Juniors
Messages
2,341
Well I say it starts here - I'm going to always use the term Rugby XIII from now on - the L word is no longer in my vocabulary.
 
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