"American Rugby"?

[Evil Homer]

Case in point:

Watching the feed of Warrington v Leeds yesterday, some American guy on the chat commented that this was the first time he had watched rugby and he was loving it. When someone said that this was rugby league, he replied with something like 'this is the first time i have seen any rugby, not just from this league'. A few people then tried to explain that there were two different sports, but he didn't respond again. Next time he goes to watch 'rugby', chances are he will see a union game, be bored out of his mind and never watch again.

 

[VictoryFC]

No I'm not kidding at all. When you say everyone you've introduced to the game are you talking about players or fans? As for soccer, among the guys I work with the only soccer fans are immigrants or children of immigrants, none of the others like it at all. Even those who play it here as kids don't bother watching it much as adults, they typically move on to hockey, football, etc. Soccer's accepted as a recreational game for kids but not much more.

Any future pro RL in North America would need a TV contract to provide income. TV in North America is financed by commercials and as the CBC telecast clearly demonstrates, limiting them to half-time won't allow enough to be shown. If the natural breaks are long enough to fit the commercials in before play resumes then I agree they can be worked into those breaks. For the viewers to miss any of the action for commercials is very amateurish. In fact the natural breaks in the game are precisely the times to fit them in, they just have to last 1-1/2 to 2 minutes for that to work which means stopping the clock for that long at those times so the viewers don't miss any of the action.

I'm talking about enabling RL to appeal to the majority of sports fans here, rather than the minority (who are all immigrants or their kids) who'll sit and watch soccer.

Even though Canada's two Major League Soccer clubs both average 20,000? Strange way to judge a sport supposedly no one bothers with. Soccer imprint on Canada is very recent...you won't see the real impact of it for another 10 years at least. But as of next year they will have 3 professional clubs to service a participation base that is, unsurprisingly, higher than ice hockey. Again, all of this will make a lot of difference sometime in the future. Your assessment of it is skewed (you're clearly very bitter about the sport).

The US is a much harder market to appease advertisers and broadcasters, yet the MLS just signed its first national TV deal with NBC. How does that work into your argument concerning Canada? I would think a precedent set in the US is a far better indicator of how things actually work...

 

[Scarves]

Obviously a smart forward thinking proposal that should be seriously considered. For different historical reasons, Rugby League in France is called Jeu à Treize (Game of Thirteen) instead of Rugby League. Always hoped that from the Super League war, as a sport Rugby League could have re branded itself, thus distancing itself from the original Rugby (Union) code. There are many in Melbourne that still confuse the two codes and throughout the United States whenever I've travelled there, most have no idea the two codes are different sports.

 

[joshreading]

What about something a tad more football (than Rugby) - like lateral football - emphasising key similarity to American Football but immediately distinguishing it from having forward passing.

 

[jasonstevenswedgie]

I mean't internationally,

Domestically you are correct.

very true

 

[jasonstevenswedgie]

I live in canada now and people have no idea there are different forms of rugby. It needs a name change to not include the word rugby. To north americans rubgy is slow and boring, which makes it hard to try and get them to watch it.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

The major issue I have with "American Rugby" is that rugby league isn't American Rugby. How about a catch phrase. Try this on for size. Rugby league, this isn't your grandfather's rugby.

 

[Evil Homer]

The major issue I have with "American Rugby" is that rugby league isn't American Rugby. How about a catch phrase. Try this on for size. Rugby league, this isn't your grandfather's rugby.

That doesn't help when you are tying to explain that they are watching a different sport though. Use of the word 'league' is always going to lead people to think it's a specific league rather than a completely different sport.

 

[Steve Davy]

(**** longish post :blahb: )

It looks like I've upset a few other posters here and in the two other threads by Matty and Lawrence, by banging on about changing the name of Rugby League in the US to American Rugby.

I unreservedly apologise to Matty and Lawrence if they felt that I was trying to hijack their threads. That was never my intention.
I am a passionate Internationalist, and in particular would love to see the game flourish in the USA.

Yes, I am an "armchair" fan (like most here probably are), but as I have pointed out, I have contributed materially, albeit in a small way to the development of Rugby League in North America.

I have not resorted to personal insults (yet :sarcasm, and am merely trying to stimulate debate on this issue. The fact that there has been almost 100 replies to this thread indicates that this is a topic worthy of informed discussion.

I feel we haven't heard the opinions of enough Americans on this and other issues related to the development of the game in their country.
To this end, I would like to propose the formulation of a survey of Americans to gauge their knowledge of and attitude towards Rugby League, and how they might see the game fitting into the American sporting landscape.

After having viewed a short clip of a USARL game, the surveyee could be asked a number of questions, obviously including "What should the game be called", then given a number of alternatives, e.g., Rugby, Rugby Union, Rugby League, American Rugby, Other -----

I am prepared to sponsor such a survey, but I don't want to be accused of soliciting answers by asking "loaded" questions, so I would invite all members here to propose their own questions (and possible answers), which they can post here, and then I will forward these to the USARL, so they can edit them into a workable survey.

Let the brainstorming begin :crazy:

The international interest in the US game is a great spur for players here and something they are often not aware of.

 

[Pablo-13]

Interesting thread, everyone. And nice to see suggestions still being made. Here are some pros and cons, in my opinion:

Rugby league
- Confusion with a league competition
- Never-ending need to explain that it's one of 2 evolutions of rugby football
+ The dominant English language name

American rugby
- Couldn't be applied to Canada, which might cause problems in the future
+ It is patriotic and follows a familiar format used by many products/media
+ It gives Americans a sense of involvement and could be used as a tagline also

Major league rugby
This is a good potential name for a competition for North America. Professional competitions for each country there seem less likely than a single one being started, so a non country specific name makes sense. It could require some minor leagues to justify though!

6 down rugby
+ A familiar concept to North American sports fans that makes RL seem less alien
+ Name recognition with ‘rugby’
+ ‘6 down’ suggests it could be different to rugby they have encountered before, including any negative impressions
+ There’s an added benefit for South Africa, because they call touch, “6 down” so it could give a small boost of RL awareness/appreciation there

Lateral football
- This name would set them apart from the rest of the English speaking RL world, despite RL’s full name being ‘rugby league football’. Competitions, videos clips, news items elsewhere would go by a very different name.
+ Provides a visualisation for the uninitiated, because of their knowledge of Canadian and American football
+ It highlights part of the game that fans appreciate in AF and CF

Removing the word 'rugby'
- Similarly to lateral football, the name would only exist in 1 or 2 markets, while the rest of the RL world used names that seemed unrelated
- Lose all the name recognition of rugby
- Explanations still required: “What’s it like? Well, [new name] is like rugby…”
+ Removes possible negative stereotypes


Of these, my preference for a US title for the sport is ‘6 down rugby’. It gives a quick mental image for American and Canadians and it doesn’t require the person mentioning RL to provide a quick recap of 1895 or a comparison with RU.

Of course, while this suggestion ticks the most boxes for me, I have no idea how well it would work with Americans (both rugby people and not).

 

[Big Picture]

Even though Canada's two Major League Soccer clubs both average 20,000? Strange way to judge a sport supposedly no one bothers with. Soccer imprint on Canada is very recent...you won't see the real impact of it for another 10 years at least. But as of next year they will have 3 professional clubs to service a participation base that is, unsurprisingly, higher than ice hockey. Again, all of this will make a lot of difference sometime in the future. Your assessment of it is skewed (you're clearly very bitter about the sport).

The US is a much harder market to appease advertisers and broadcasters, yet the MLS just signed its first national TV deal with NBC. How does that work into your argument concerning Canada? I would think a precedent set in the US is a far better indicator of how things actually work...

Those are two soccer clubs in major cities with huge immigrant populations. They're no different from Sydney or Melbourne in that respect. The participation base is huge among kids but most of those kids don't grow up and become fans of watching soccer, instead they gravitate to the mainstream sports.

TV sports work the same in both countries, and the MLS deal confirms what I said above. It's not with the main NBC network, it's with NBC Sports Network (the new name of the cable station Versus) with a couple of games a year on the main network. They previously had a similar deal with ESPN and ABC, but it seems those networks lost interest in the MLS. The new deal's only worth $10 million a year, which is peanuts compared to what the rights for mainstream sports are worth: the NCAA's Southeast Conference is getting $205 million a year from CBS and ESPN for football and basketball.

It's no different to what happened in Canada, where the CBC showed Toronto FC games at first, but now those are on TSN instead. The bottom line is: in North America the major networks don't show sports that don't have natural stoppages where commercials can be shown, instead those are limited to dedicated sports channels whey they comprise a small part of their overall schedule.

 

[spooky]

Those are two soccer clubs in major cities with huge immigrant populations. They're no different from Sydney or Melbourne in that respect. The participation base is huge among kids but most of those kids don't grow up and become fans of watching soccer, instead they gravitate to the mainstream sports.

It's no different to what happened in Canada, where the CBC showed Toronto FC games at first, but now those are on TSN instead. The bottom line is: in North America the major networks don't show sports that don't have natural stoppages where commercials can be shown, instead those are limited to dedicated sports channels whey they comprise a small part of their overall schedule.

I don't get your point about the immigrant population. It feels like you're trying to discount them. Canada has a huge immigrant population and it's just as valid as the non immigrants.. 50% of Torontonians were born outside of Canada

You say the kids grow up not watching soccer. Maybe in the past, but it's much more accessible now, plus they actually have teams to watch here.

On the CBC and TFC games, CBC were outbid for the rights by TSN. They didn't drop them as you imply.

 

[Rhode Island Rebellion]

(**** longish post :blahb: )

It looks like I've upset a few other posters here and in the two other threads by Matty and Lawrence, by banging on about changing the name of Rugby League in the US to American Rugby.

I unreservedly apologise to Matty and Lawrence if they felt that I was trying to hijack their threads. That was never my intention.
I am a passionate Internationalist, and in particular would love to see the game flourish in the USA.

Yes, I am an "armchair" fan (like most here probably are), but as I have pointed out, I have contributed materially, albeit in a small way to the development of Rugby League in North America.

I have not resorted to personal insults (yet :sarcasm, and am merely trying to stimulate debate on this issue. The fact that there has been almost 100 replies to this thread indicates that this is a topic worthy of informed discussion.

I feel we haven't heard the opinions of enough Americans on this and other issues related to the development of the game in their country.
To this end, I would like to propose the formulation of a survey of Americans to gauge their knowledge of and attitude towards Rugby League, and how they might see the game fitting into the American sporting landscape.

After having viewed a short clip of a USARL game, the surveyee could be asked a number of questions, obviously including "What should the game be called", then given a number of alternatives, e.g., Rugby, Rugby Union, Rugby League, American Rugby, Other -----

I am prepared to sponsor such a survey, but I don't want to be accused of soliciting answers by asking "loaded" questions, so I would invite all members here to propose their own questions (and possible answers), which they can post here, and then I will forward these to the USARL, so they can edit them into a workable survey.

Let the brainstorming begin :crazy:

Dude you definitely have not upset me one bit. I love it that you guys care enough to spur some debate. You haven't attacked me or anyone personally so i have no issue with that.

I am currently a Full Time Law student so I Know Passion and Live for Debate. Hell this whole USARL and Rebellion thing have been an up hill battle since Jump Street and that is what makes it exciting and drives me. Your idea has been nothing negative and has been positive heck who knows what could come of it. I mean for every 100 ideas 99 of them stink, but you will never get that 1 good idea unless you put the out the other 99. So trust me i am not offended and if anything i am estatic that you and everyone else actually gives a care.

All the best

 

[WAPAU]

This idea seems a bit silly to me.

Due to league being the smaller code (in an international sense), would it not make more sense to try and distance its self from rugby union to avoid confusion in new markets?

I think there is an opportunity for a new name, but it has to be something original and unambiguous and in my eyes that rules out the words rugby, football and league.

The code needs a name similar to what association football have with 'soccer'.

 

[crimpo]

All I can go by is the various American (non-sports) podcasts that I listen to. The FIFA World Cup got a lot of buzz from these 'civilians' while the US team were involved. I've heard 'rugby' mentioned thrice over the years and each time it was mentioned as a confusing boring game. In fact once it was cited as the epitome of boredom. The only consolation (I suppose) is that they were talking about RU.

To show how bad it is I heard two guys discussing Russell Crowe. They had seen him on TV promoting RL and - a) They thought he was promoting RU, b) They couldn't work out how anyone could be so devoted to so boring a game as RU!

 

[bender]

What about something that tries to cling on the similarities between league and Grid Iron.

Mabye something like

World Rules Grid iron?

It should help with sponsorship shouldnt it?

 

[Evil Homer]

What about something that tries to cling on the similarities between league and Grid Iron.

Mabye something like

World Rules Grid iron?

It should help with sponsorship shouldnt it?

I don't think I have ever heard an American say 'grid iron'.

 

[Ryan_N]

6 Down Rugby and Lateral Football were two ideas mentioned earlier that IMO would be more successful at "clinging" onto the similarities to American Football.

 

[bender]

I don't think I have ever heard an American say 'grid iron'.

yeah i think you might be right. What about just Grid Iron?

 

[VictoryFC]

Gridiron refers to the pitch. So calling it grid iron would just elicit a lot of bemusement.