Andrew Johns vs Darren Lockyer

[Red Bear]

johns is overated , had no game plans ,

.only talked about because of Rudder and tactical supercoach hagan, plus relied on rudder,buderus,gidley,odavis to make him look good,

hagan had technical game plans johns could execute,

 

[Red Bear]

Dally Ms have zero cred. They are voted on by Journos and former players with NFI and the voting criteria is pathetic.
Case in point :
Tits vs Raiders....Raiders lose the lead in the final seconds and it goes into extra time.
Titans win in extra time after like 1 minute.....Daley gives all three votes to Tits players.
You cannot tell me that no Raiders players deserved a vote.

I generally agree, but if team success can be brought up to boost Lockyer's standing why not mention 3 dally m's?

 

[Hutty1986]

Did he hit that?

Yeah.. he hit that.

 

[Big Pete]

Ahh, Origin time - it's about time this old chest nut got bumped.

Personally, I'm a fan of Lockyer, arguably my favourite player of all time and a lot of my League memories centre around his excellence. With that said, from what I saw of him Johns was the better player in my books.

Better playmaker who could play more direct than Lockyer and was a stronger runner and defender. Not to mention Johns was more consistent.

With that said, being a Broncos fan I'm far more critical of my players due to my exposure to them. Since 2007 the only Johns games I've caught are Origin/International games, old games vs. Brisbane or hand picked 'Best of Joey' games. I haven't really gone out of my way to watch Newcastle games to be able to scruitinise him to the extent I do with Locky.

One point I will argue - Lockyer for mine was more consistent in the big games. When the going got tough, Lockyer seemed to rise to the occasion. Johns had his moments in those crunch moments, true, but I believe Lockyer has a stronger history of it.

Also another point about Lockyer playing with a stronger side, without getting into it, Newcastle were far from a rabbel.

 

[Red Bear]

Ahh, Origin time - it's about time this old chest nut got bumped.

Personally, I'm a fan of Lockyer, arguably my favourite player of all time and a lot of my League memories centre around his excellence. With that said, from what I saw of him Johns was the better player in my books.

Better playmaker who could play more direct than Lockyer and was a stronger runner and defender. Not to mention Johns was more consistent.

With that said, being a Broncos fan I'm far more critical of my players due to my exposure to them. Since 2007 the only Johns games I've caught are Origin/International games, old games vs. Brisbane or hand picked 'Best of Joey' games. I haven't really gone out of my way to watch Newcastle games to be able to scruitinise him to the extent I do with Locky.

One point I will argue - Lockyer for mine was more consistent in the big games. When the going got tough, Lockyer seemed to rise to the occasion. Johns had his moments in those crunch moments, true, but I believe Lockyer has a stronger history of it.

Also another point about Lockyer playing with a stronger side, without getting into it, Newcastle were far from a rabbel.

in the 04-7 era they were pretty shit, the Johns effect was huge.

Obviously they were a good side (especially forward pack) in the late 90's/early 00's

 

[RABK]

Johns origin record against Lockyer is 10 wins, 5 losses, 2 draws.

Yup, Lockyer sure was a big game player vs Johns.

 

[Jono078]

Johns beat Lockyer, Thurston and Cam Smith alone to win NSW the 2005 origin series

 

[THE CHAMP]

You're an idiot. Seriously mate this is the third bump i have seen from you today and all have been pointless.

In response to your post i only remember 1 premiers from 1997 and it wasn't the Broncos.

Hahahahahaaaaaaaaabaaaahaahahaha John couldn't wear Lockyers jocks it's that simple.
Take ya poofy blue glasses off all you clowns. When he retires at the end of the season they will release a DVD of his highlights. Shit they are gonna need a twin pack. If you can save up your pocket money you should buy it.

 

[Big Pete]

in the 04-7 era they were pretty shit, the Johns effect was huge.

And they missed the finals all but one of those years even with the likes of Buderus and Simpson among others.

RABK - So you want to play the Lockyer had a better team card when it comes to club footy but won't offer the same courtesy when it comes to Origin. How typical of you.

 

[Big Pete]

Johns beat Lockyer, Thurston and Cam Smith alone to win NSW the 2005 origin series

Yes but Lam defeated a Fittler and Johns combo...three times in a row.

Let's make him an immortal.

 

[RABK]

And they missed the finals all but one of those years even with the likes of Buderus and Simpson among others.

RABK - So you want to play the Lockyer had a better team card when it comes to club footy but won't offer the same courtesy when it comes to Origin. How typical of you.

Johns did not have a better side at all, only in 2000 did NSW have any clear advantage in class.

Your if's and but's hold no weight in making it closer. Johns was a better player by far, more dominant and even his strongest sides where worth about a million less in value then the worst lockyers played in.

John Morris played on the wing agains tuquri in 2002... Johns set up 4 tries down that side including 2 to morris in a 40-10 thrashing. Lockyer, nor any other other player, could make John Morris look like the worlds best winger against Tuquri in his prime.

John Morris ffs.

 

[Big Pete]

Johns did not have a better side at all, only in 2000 did NSW have any clear advantage in class.

Ahhh, so will you stick with this angle or when you compare the 2002, 2003 and 2005 sides will you change your tunes when you suddenly speak of how brilliant your sides were?

Qld were never that flash on paper aside from a few names. NSW were always good across the board.

John Morris played on the wing agains tuquri in 2002... Johns set up 4 tries down that side including 2 to morris in a 40-10 thrashing. Lockyer, nor any other other player, make John Morris look like the worlds best winger against Tuquri in his prime.

And Darren Lockyer did the same to Joey in 2006 when he had David Stagg at centre/wing, in a finals game no less.

You can bring up these silly references with any player.

 

[RABK]

Are you comparing the Knights finals side of 2006 to the Broncos of 2002? And a hooker at wing against Tuquri to a small backrower at centre against Carmont?

You're an idiot.

Both QLD and NSW had Good sides with class across the board with 00 been Qld's exception and 01 been NSW's.

 

[Jason Maher]

These comparisons give me the shits. Both are out and out champion players. Can't we just leave it at that?

 

[Red Bear]

And they missed the finals all but one of those years even with the likes of Buderus and Simpson among others.

RABK - So you want to play the Lockyer had a better team card when it comes to club footy but won't offer the same courtesy when it comes to Origin. How typical of you.

which went roughly Johns mises 04, Knights near spoon
Johns starts season slowly still coming back from knee reco then breaks jaw, knights lose 10 games and have two byes, Johns plays rd 13 (loss to brisbane) then involved in origin (dominates for blues), rd 16-26 win 8/11 games (johns missed one of the losses) as he nearly drags them out of spoon (arguably one of his best patches of form).

06 Johns fit whole season, Newcastle finishes 4th

07 Johns retires early season, Newcastle only just avoids spoon.

He was that important to a largely mediocre side. Sure Steve Simpson and Buderus were good, but they had larfely average sides which Johns made to look alot better when he was around.

 

[Big Pete]

And the same can be applied to Locky Red Bear.

RABK - No I never compared, just saying both sides were understrength line-ups that were flogged on the night. It happens.

 

[Noname36]

Let's not forget that Lockyer played the majority of his career under Bennett. Johns played the majority of his under Hagan.

 

[smi962]

Andrew Johns by a mile, best all-round dominant player I have seen.

 

[andrew057]

Andrew Johns was the better player, Darren Lockyer was the greater player.

 

[Azkatro]

Johns origin record against Lockyer is 10 wins, 5 losses, 2 draws.

Yup, Lockyer sure was a big game player vs Johns.

How do you figure that? They only played opposite one another 14 times at Origin level...