Another way of assessing junior development for each club

[Loudstrat]

I guess I could look it up, but in the interests of discussion - which club has produced from their juniors:

The most Rookies of the year
The most Dally M Player of the year
The most Dally M positional awards
The most of any pther award (I still think the Rugby League Week POTY award is the most accurate)

Could be interesting. I know Parra will be up there with the rookies, given that Tim Smith and Jarryd Hayne won it in the last 5 or 6 years.

 

[Didgi]

First you have to define a junior, that's a whole shitfight in itself, particularly around the Sydney clubs.

 

[thorson1987]

And I would also put a time limit of such on it, say from 1998

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Tim Smith is a Gold Coast junior. Signing a kid at 17 or 18 doesn't mean the NRL club has produced that player. In fact considering the paltry amount of work done by NRL clubs at the grassroots level even inside their own traditional districts it's pretty hard for any club to claim much credit for "producing" any player. I'd even say that NRL clubs probably destroy the potential of just as many young players as they develop to first grade level. If you want to use Smith as an example, they may have signed him up and got him up to first grade level but they didn't deal with ongoing issues that ultimately meant he couldn't fulfil his potential.

 

[WAPAU]

Australia/NZ or Origin reps would be a more accurate measure imo.

 

[skeepe]

Tim Smith is a Gold Coast junior. Signing a kid at 17 or 18 doesn't mean the NRL club has produced that player. In fact considering the paltry amount of work done by NRL clubs at the grassroots level even inside their own traditional districts it's pretty hard for any club to claim much credit for "producing" any player. I'd even say that NRL clubs probably destroy the potential of just as many young players as they develop to first grade level. If you want to use Smith as an example, they may have signed him up and got him up to first grade level but they didn't deal with ongoing issues that ultimately meant he couldn't fulfil his potential.

Canberra have a wonderful development program.

Anyway. The problem with this kind of measure is that the awards you speak of are subjective themselves. Nobody thought Idris deserved the rookie of the year award over Dugan bar the Dally M judges, but it was their opinion alone that counted.

 

[betcats]

Not trying to be a prick here but this isnt gonna work. Maybe origin/international reps as someone else suggested...

 

[Loudstrat]

First you have to define a junior, that's a whole shitfight in itself, particularly around the Sydney clubs.

Going by the current interpretation, someone that makes a first grade debut at a club where they have played all their lower grade games.

And I would also put a time limit of such on it, say from 1998

Fair point.

Australia/NZ or Origin reps would be a more accurate measure imo.

No, because that favours whichever side has the less junior numbers. I remember a thread from about a year ago where someone listed stats on where each NRL player came from, and the NSW junior system was seen to have made more first grade players over Queensland by a significant margin. NSW has more junior players, but they also have more opportunities for young players without having to move. If you are a young player in Brisbane that the Broncos dont pick up means you have to move to get a gig.

Checking Wikipedia, who list from 2004......

2004 POTY - Bedurus (Newcastle), Rookie cutie (Brisbane)
2005 POTY - Thurston (Canterbury/Toowoomba), Rookie, Tim Smith (Parramatta, Gold Coast)
2006 POTY - Smith (Melbourne/Brisbane Norths), Rookie, Hayne (Parramatta)
2007 POTY - Thurston, Rookie Folau (Melbourne/Brisbane Norths/Parramatta)
2008 POTY - Orford (North Sydney/Central Coast), Rookie, Sandow (Souths/Gold Coast/Logan)
2009 POTY - Hayne, Rookie, Idris (Bulldogs/Parramatta)
2010 PTOY - Carney (Canberra), Rookie, Gillett (Brisbane)
2011 POTY - Slater (Melbourne/North Queensland), Rookie, Cherry-Evans (Manly/Sunshine Coast)

I listed the junior clubs in reverse chronological order. In italics are junior areas not afilliated with an NRL club, or in the case of Folau and Idris, an NRL area that they played junior footy in at high school but moved on with famly).

With that, Brisbane and Parramatta seem to be the most fertile.

In doing this, I am amazed to find that Thurston could not get a gig with a club unless he played for free, and then only 2 clubs were interested. The first was Nathan Brown at the Dragons, but he ended up at the Dogs because it was closer to his managers place and that made his mum a little happier. How things change.

 

[morley101]

Junior devolpment should be judged as to which club either puts the player on a scholarship or in a junior rep team first. The NRL club has
next to no involvment in the players development prior to this.

 

[macavity]

Lol... apparently Forster is near Parra now...

 

[IFR33K]

Lol... apparently Forster is near Parra now...

Idris played for fairfield pats, if that is who you are referring to.

 

[supera]

Junior devolpment should be judged as to which club either puts the player on a scholarship or in a junior rep team first. The NRL club has next to no involvment in the players development prior to this.

this.

measuring junior development is pointless, because a lot of clubs don't do any until they get him in as an 18 year old.

there's no way to measure who has the best junior development. we can only look at:

a) Toyota Cup premierships
b) how many under 23 players are in the senior team, and whether they're any good.

why do we need to know who has the best junior development anyway? is it just another way to measure penis size? because it doesn't mean anything. i think the Raiders have probably developed 18-21 year olds as well or better than anyone over the past 5-6 years. it still doesn't equal results.

 

[Loudstrat]

Why? Because there is a push to give salary cap dispensation to clubs who grade players. That's why.

And another reason. With the IC (if it ever comes in - its a race to see if the IC gets here before Christ) there is no representation from junior league, so it's important to maintain the status of the local junior in a team for that reason only.

 

[no name]

Wasn't Falou from Minto? Meaning he was a Wests junior?
The whole junior argument is flawed because alot of clubs tell players they will never make it, only to see them flourish at other clubs.
Eg. Hoffman @ magpies, Maloney @ eels

 

[supera]

Why? Because there is a push to give salary cap dispensation to clubs who grade players. That's why.

And another reason. With the IC (if it ever comes in - its a race to see if the IC gets here before Christ) there is no representation from junior league, so it's important to maintain the status of the local junior in a team for that reason only.

your sensible and reasonable argument was completely overshadowed by this cracker :lol::lol::lol:

 

[rabbitohs95]

I think the whole idea of a junior is where someone has gone through the ranks to make top grade, regardless of which club they're at now. For example Braith Anasta, the captain of the Roosters (who we all hate with a passion) is in fact a South Sydney junior, doesn't matter if he has never played for them in top grade, he is still a Souths junior. Same thing can be said for anyone, it's just a matter of where they've developed into top grade...

 

[macavity]

Makes Idris as much of a Parra boy as Inglis is a Brisbane boy...

 

[Cloudsurfer]

Junior devolpment should be judged as to which club either puts the player on a scholarship or in a junior rep team first. The NRL club has
next to no involvment in the players development prior to this.

This. In an ideal world every player would never leave 'home' and would go on to represent their 'home' FG but the nature of any professional sports comp means people will go where there is opportunity to further their careers - some make it, most don't - and the salary cap adds to this greatly. Fair? No, probably not especially when you have to see some young gun leave 'home' but to me they carry their roots with them & I don't give a damn who they are playing for in that respect - they and theirs know where they came from.
Re the targeted funding for junior development - it won't make that much difference to the ones that get overlooked at 'home' or for some reason need a change to realise their potential. It would mean you don't have to lose the ones identified early but a lot will still go later on one way or the other. Nature of the beast

 

[Loudstrat]

Makes Idris as much of a Parra boy as Inglis is a Brisbane boy...

So Fairfield Pats is in Brisbane now????????

No one is claiming Idris is a Parra junior. He spent junior time there, like his did in Forster, but his main junior time was in the Doggies juniors. Chester Hill, same as Baa.

Now, before you start claiming Sterlo as a Broncos junior, sod off.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

If we based it on dally m awards the warriors would place last, Ali Lauatiti second rower of the year 02' Sean Hoppe winger of the year 95' and Steve Price (not a warriors jr.) prop and captain of the year 07' are the only warriors to ever win an award while playing for the warriors, not saying it's a conspiracy just that they are bias. Warriors haven't even won a NYC player of the year award ffs. Other warriors juniors to win an award are Paul Rauhihi, Nigel Vagana and Roy Asotasi.