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Warabrook saint

Juniors
Messages
1,799
Seems to be pretty happy with Mary's performance
More home games at "the club's other spiritual Home ground of Kogarah..." Really?"
An eye on Western Sydney, expanding the brand internationally?
"The WIN-Dragons deal was several years in the making. There were other prospective owners seeking to take the Steelers’ share, including a Qatari consortium and a US bidder. However, Gordon said it was important that an party with an affinity with the region won out."
Why exactly?
An outside solution would have brought some objectivity to the whole place.
When I read this, it just convinced me that we are in for more of the same.
Decades of no premierships and the same old Board philosophy - it's akin to in breeding.
I was crestfallen...
Everything old is new again.....again
 

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
New Dragons boss Gordon opens up on vision for the Red V
Adrian Proszenko10 November 2018 — 7:00pm
  • Send via Email
New St George Illawarra chairman Andrew Gordon has spoken for the first time about his vision for the club, believing the Dragons have the potential to become an “international brand”.

The joint-venture outfit underwent the biggest overhaul in its history when WIN Corporation took a 50 per cent stake in the Dragons by taking on the Steelers’ share in August. The move extinguished the debt the Dragons owed the NRL and effectively secured Illawarra’s position as an equal stakeholder in the Red V.

58788cfaa403745b6fd4f7626a01a34fd4753ce4

Dragons chair Andrew Gordon has big plans for the club.Credit:Mercury

As part of the transaction, long-time director Gordon - the son of WIN owner Bruce Gordon - became the chairman of the famous sporting franchise.

Gordon, who has kept a low profile since becoming a Dragons board member back in 2006, predicted a bright future for the Dragons nationally and even abroad.

“I’d like it to become an international brand,” Gordon told Fairfax Media. “I have that kind of faith in the code and the club. It is an incredible brand, one of the pre-eminent sporting brands in the nation.

“Longer term, through the experience of living overseas at points of my life, I think league has a certain cut-through and the ability to separate itself from a lot of other sporting codes in the world and thereby create its own interest.”

League already has taken the first tentative steps towards penetrating the American market. Denver hosted an England-New Zealand Test this season, the NRL remains hopeful of staging a season-opening fixture in 2020 and the World Cup is slated for the United States in 2025.

“It’s a difficult balance through the regular season because it can be of detriment to clubs,” Gordon said in reference to the Denver Test. “I would say that was a factor in our own performance being affected by such endeavours.

“There are the pros and cons to such things and it’s about making that work in our favour.”

The WIN-Dragons deal was several years in the making. There were other prospective owners seeking to take the Steelers’ share, including a Qatari consortium and a US bidder. However, Gordon said it was important that an party with an affinity with the region won out.

“It would probably have caused some difficulties having people come in from the outside, especially foreigners getting a grasp of the trials and tribulations of rugby league,” he said. “It’s important to have the south coast involvement to make us what we are.

“It’s a tremendous breeding ground for players, one of the best NRL nurseries in the country.

“That’s added to the depth we’ve had over the years, it something we never wanted to see disappear from the brand or the environment.”

The new ownership arrangement ensures the Dragons will continue to have a strong presence in Illawarra, including the staging of home games in the region. While matches will continue to also be played in the club’s other spiritual home of Kogarah, Gordon revealed consideration was being given to shifting some home fixtures to the new Western Sydney Stadium.

“We’re very open-minded to see what’s going on with stadia across the state,” he said.

“Going forward, we will certainly evaluate whether we can take a game or two [to Western Sydney], what the benefits could be. It’s got the potential to be a very good venue, we definitely want to evaluate that.

“It could also be expansionary for our club to play out there to a western suburbs audience.”

One of the first big decisions facing the new-look Dragons hierarchy is the future of coach Paul McGregor. "Mary" is in the last year of his contract, but Gordon said there is no rush to make a call on his future.

“We certainly don’t have a lot to be down in the mouth about in terms of Mary’s performance with the team,” he said. “We also have to look at the overall market and what’s going on. Stability is the key for us right now.

“This is something we won’t jump into at this stage of the season. There’s a bit of time. We’ll focus on this coming year rather than pre-empting that, it’s a little too far forward.”


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ne...-on-vision-for-the-red-v-20181110-p50f80.html

Thanks for posting GS but in saying that, the underlying feeling from the club seems to be, lets roll with more of the same ( McGregor)...... which from a fans perspective, will not be tolerated if history keeos repeating itself.
 

dragonssamy61

First Grade
Messages
5,549
Seems to be pretty happy with Mary's performance
More home games at "the club's other spiritual Home ground of Kogarah..." Really?"
An eye on Western Sydney, expanding the brand internationally?
"The WIN-Dragons deal was several years in the making. There were other prospective owners seeking to take the Steelers’ share, including a Qatari consortium and a US bidder. However, Gordon said it was important that an party with an affinity with the region won out."
Why exactly?
An outside solution would have brought some objectivity to the whole place.
When I read this, it just convinced me that we are in for more of the same.
Decades of no premierships and the same old Board philosophy - it's akin to in breeding.
I was crestfallen...

Dennis
I understand what your saying but I'm willing to give him 6 months and see what happens.
I hope less old boys club much more professional.
But I can't see it changing to much
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
New Dragons boss Gordon opens up on vision for the Red V
Adrian Proszenko10 November 2018 — 7:00pm
  • Send via Email
New St George Illawarra chairman Andrew Gordon has spoken for the first time about his vision for the club, believing the Dragons have the potential to become an “international brand”.

The joint-venture outfit underwent the biggest overhaul in its history when WIN Corporation took a 50 per cent stake in the Dragons by taking on the Steelers’ share in August. The move extinguished the debt the Dragons owed the NRL and effectively secured Illawarra’s position as an equal stakeholder in the Red V.

58788cfaa403745b6fd4f7626a01a34fd4753ce4

Dragons chair Andrew Gordon has big plans for the club.Credit:Mercury

As part of the transaction, long-time director Gordon - the son of WIN owner Bruce Gordon - became the chairman of the famous sporting franchise.

Gordon, who has kept a low profile since becoming a Dragons board member back in 2006, predicted a bright future for the Dragons nationally and even abroad.

“I’d like it to become an international brand,” Gordon told Fairfax Media. “I have that kind of faith in the code and the club. It is an incredible brand, one of the pre-eminent sporting brands in the nation.

“Longer term, through the experience of living overseas at points of my life, I think league has a certain cut-through and the ability to separate itself from a lot of other sporting codes in the world and thereby create its own interest.”

League already has taken the first tentative steps towards penetrating the American market. Denver hosted an England-New Zealand Test this season, the NRL remains hopeful of staging a season-opening fixture in 2020 and the World Cup is slated for the United States in 2025.

“It’s a difficult balance through the regular season because it can be of detriment to clubs,” Gordon said in reference to the Denver Test. “I would say that was a factor in our own performance being affected by such endeavours.

“There are the pros and cons to such things and it’s about making that work in our favour.”

“It’s a tremendous breeding ground for players, one of the best NRL nurseries in the country.

“That’s added to the depth we’ve had over the years, it something we never wanted to see disappear from the brand or the environment.”

“Going forward, we will certainly evaluate whether we can take a game or two [to Western Sydney], what the benefits could be. It’s got the potential to be a very good venue, we definitely want to evaluate that.

“It could also be expansionary for our club to play out there to a western suburbs audience.”

One of the first big decisions facing the new-look Dragons hierarchy is the future of coach Paul McGregor. "Mary" is in the last year of his contract, but Gordon said there is no rush to make a call on his future.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ne...-on-vision-for-the-red-v-20181110-p50f80.html[/QUOTE]
—————————————————————————————————————

Is this bloke for real?
He has been on the board since 2006... meaning this!

A. He was part of the dumb clucks that gave Bennett 3 years instead of 5.
B. He was part of giving Price a contract to coach
C. He was part of extending Mary’s contract for no good reason
D. An international brand? Hate to tell him but the Denver test was an abject failure, the guy organising it went bankrupt and future tests there have been canned, the experiment was a massive failure.
E. There is LITTLE interest in league in the USA
F. If he had a brain he would realise the expansion future lies in the pacific, the place where the people love the game, Samoa, Tonga, Papua New Guinea
G. He won’t admit to that because that will cost money to grow and expand the game in the pacific, he thinks the USA is a money pit, it would be if the yanks liked our game, well they don’t, well not enough of them anyway.
H. An international brand? Yeah right, while at home we lose by 40 points and lose 6 from 9 matches and have won ONE COMP in 39 years.
I. FFS........
J. This bloke is part of our problem, he ain’t no mr fix it.

How about creating a vision that includes being the dominant side in the NRL, increasing membership to 35,000, achieving average crowds of 25,000 and increasing TPAs from 10 cents to $2 million.

Instead of this bullshit.
 
Last edited:

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
New Dragons boss Gordon opens up .....

Is this bloke for real?
He has been on the board since 2006... meaning this!

A. He was part of the dumb clucks that gave Bennett 3 years instead of 5.
B. He was part of giving Price a contract to coach
C. He was part of extending Mary’s contract for no good reason
D. An international brand? Hate to tell him but the Denver test was an abject failure, the guy organising it went bankrupt and future tests there have been canned, the experiment was a massive failure.
E. There is LITTLE interest in league in the USA
F. If he had a brain he would realise the expansion future lies in the pacific, the place where the people love the game, Samoa, Tonga, Papua New Guinea
G. He won’t admit to that because that will cost money to grow and expand the game in the pacific, he thinks the USA is a money pit, it would be if the yanks liked our game, well they don’t, well not enough of them anyway.
H. An international brand? Yeah right, while at home we lose by 40 points and lose 6 from 9 matches and have won ONE COMP in 39 years.
I. FFS........
J. This bloke is part of our problem, he ain’t no mr fix it.

How about creating a vision that includes being the dominant side in the NRL, increasing membership to 35,000, achieving average crowds of 25,000 and increasing TPAs from 10 cents to $2 million.

Instead of this bullshit.

Very disappointed with you, OY's.
You neglected to mention Prices extension! :yum:

I forgot to mention in my post how he's looking to make us an international brand!
Like wow, thought we've been one for a good fifty odd years already.
As mentioned by other members travelling around thr world, especially Great Britain, we are well known..... even St Helens copied our famous red V.

Maybe he's talking purely about the Illawarra component.

Anyway, you make some valid points there, mate. Just got to hope the penny drops with the management, eh.
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,106
Dennis
I understand what your saying but I'm willing to give him 6 months and see what happens.
I hope less old boys club much more professional.
But I can't see it changing to much

I don't think much will change Samy....There has been talk of an extension in regards to Mary for a while now..sticking point the number of years...Mary wants another 3 years...Only way this doesn't happen is if we have a very poor start to next year and it continues.

The very thing we needed was New Blood from outside the club....the mind boggles.....
 
Messages
2,866
Dennis
I understand what your saying but I'm willing to give him 6 months and see what happens.
I hope less old boys club much more professional.
But I can't see it changing to much
6 months is not a long time to wait in the context of the Club's future so let's see what transpires.
This article is the pre cursor to a whole heap of media spin aimed at convincing the fan base that "the best is yet to come". They will also go to great lengths to pat themselves on the back for their vision and forward thinking..
The simple test will be whether they will persevere with Mary and whether, as rumor has it, Dean Young has already been anointed as the next coach.
Of course a lot will depend on our results next year as well so let's see.
My problem is that Gordon has been on the board since 2006.
He has had plenty of opportunity to inject some "professional" something into the scene.
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
Very disappointed with you, OY's.
You neglected to mention Prices extension! :yum:

I forgot to mention in my post how he's looking to make us an international brand!
Like wow, thought we've been one for a good fifty odd years already.
As mentioned by other members travelling around thr world, especially Great Britain, we are well known..... even St Helens copied our famous red V.

Maybe he's talking purely about the Illawarra component.

Anyway, you make some valid points there, mate. Just got to hope the penny drops with the management, eh.
I should and will give him the opportunity to deliver the goods, as you say mate, the penny may drop. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, hope he delivers what we need.

Ha, I did forget about Prices extension, he got one? My god.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
9,913
I should and will give him the opportunity to deliver the goods, as you say mate, the penny may drop. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, hope he delivers what we need.

Ha, I did forget about Prices extension, he got one? My god.
Ha, Typical Doust, made sure the release came through Channel 9 at half time of the Anzac game, so it was brushed over quickly. We fell away in the 2nd half after that announcement?. I cant remember that part, the team were in shock!
If the club is true to form Mary's extension will be announced XMAS day.
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,106
england-and-new-zealand-11-nov-18--106.jpg


REPRESENTATIVE


Remembrance Day trip evokes emotion for England, Kiwis
Author
Alicia Newton NRL.com Reporter in England
Timestamp
Sun 11 Nov 2018, 09:51 AM
newtonalicia-head.png

James Graham sat on the steps of Tyne Cot Cemetery in the rural village of Passchendaele and was left with no words.

The England captain and the squad travelled to Belgium prior to their three-game series against New Zealand to commemorate the 100th anniversary of World War I before Sunday's third Test on Remembrance Day (2.15am Monday AEDT).

A total of 69 professional rugby league players lost their lives during the first war and for Graham, who had family members fight in World War II, the Dragons prop struggled to comprehend his thoughts when reflecting on the experience.

"It was an emotional occasion, difficult to put into words. The feelings it brought on ... we were all there and there wasn't much said between the group," Graham said.

"To think men were in our position and had the same goals as us, playing for a club team and wanted to win the league or a Cup final, maybe represent England or Great Britain.

James Graham captains England on Remembrace Sunday

A trip to Passchendaele put everything in perspective for the squad

We will remember them :pray: #Remembrance2018 #ThankYou100 pic.twitter.com/C6zYaGTKGE

— England Rugby League (@England_RL) November 10, 2018
"To war they went and they didn't come back. It made me think like I wonder what they were thinking when they were there? Maybe that they'll get back and keep playing. It's really hard to take yourself there. They were men just like us and paid the ultimate price.

"I just put in my head what they were going to do, and a lot of them were going there to die. I was speaking about it with the lads and Wayne, he's big on his history. It was more like I don't know if they had a choice.

"It was either go out on top or you'd get killed for not going over. Maybe they didn't want to let their mate down, when you hear the sheer volume of people. They were men just like us and we were just in disbelief it happened 100 years ago."

Graham is known to remove his jersey after full-time and hand it to a member of the crowd. After Sunday's victory over New Zealand in Liverpool, he paid his respects to the current men and women by taking time to thank them for their service.

Those that lost their lives have paved the way for people to enjoy their freedom, including rugby league players, to fulfil their dreams on land that was once fought on.

"I really don't like to compare sport to war, it's just not the same," Graham said.

Absolute legend. pic.twitter.com/dh84EwbWOH

— John Armstrong (@toddy7196) November 6, 2018
"I find it disrespectful, there's a different price to be paid. Those men and the service women now go knowing they could pay the ultimate price.

"We get looked after here, we go for 80 minutes ... we train hard and that sort of stuff and have comradery but we have it easy – physio, doctors, massages – I'm sure they're looked after too but it's nothing to what they go through."

Kiwis captain Dallin Watene-Zelezniak added the final clash of the series would be felt across both nations as many parts of the world come together in remembrance.

I really don't like to compare sport to war, it's just not the same.

James Graham
Both sides will wear commemorative poppy jerseys with a moment silence and laying of reefs to be conducted pre-game.

"Everyone should know and remember why we have the freedom we do today and why we have the lives we have today," Watene-Zelezniak said.

"It's not because of the way we live our lives but the people before us defended our countries and did us proud."

Headgear to Helmets

https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2018/11/12/remembrance-day-trip-evokes-emotion-for-england-kiwis/
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,106
england-and-new-zealand-11-nov-18--11.jpg


REPRESENTATIVE


New Zealand dominate in 34-0 victory over England
Author
Alicia Newton NRL.com Reporter in England
Timestamp
Mon 12 Nov 2018, 04:14 AM
newtonalicia-head.png

Share on social media
New Zealand have avoided a series whitewash in dominating fashion with a crushing 34-0 victory over England in the third and final Test at Elland Road in Leeds on Sunday (Monday morning AEDT).

Kodi Nikorima was everywhere for the Kiwis to help guide the side to an 18-0 lead at half-time and the one-way traffic continued into the second with the record-breaking crowd of 32,186 silenced for most of the contest.

Despite conceding the series in the second Test, the Kiwis' attitude was on song from the opening set on Remembrance Day and with England having three disallowed tries, New Zealand's lead never looked under threat.

The early onslaught started in the fourth minute with a late offload from Jared Waerea-Hargreaves putting pressure on England's defence for Ken Maumalo to step inside Jake Connor and Jonny Lomax to the line.

England were denied the chance to hit back through Golden Boot winner Tommy Makinson with John Bateman ruled to have obstructed Kevin Proctor in the lead-up.

New Zealand had a try of their own disallowed three minutes later with Jamayne Isaako getting a foot on the line in a try-scoring opportunity.

Match Highlights: England v Kiwis - Third Test

The Kiwis' dominance in the first half was sealed when Nikorima shrugged away from Chris Hill in the middle of the paddock to link with Shaun Johnson for an 18-point advantage at the break.

Any thoughts of a comeback were extinguished early by the Kiwis with Nikorima placing a cross-field kick for Maumalo to outleap Jermaine McGillvary for his second try of the afternoon.


Kiwis coach Michael Maguire said the side was building towards an all-round performance.

"I have felt that the players are capable of doing things like that," Maguire said.

"The way they've come together you could see that growing. It's a bit of a shame I guess, it's the first time I've been in this position where all of a sudden we're finished.

"You want to keep it going after we've built the momentum."

England lost Jake Connor to a head knock in the process to compound a disappointing end to the series despite retaining the Baskerville Shield.

New Zealand's ill-discipline has been a weakness this series and that continued despite the lop-sided result with Waerea-Hargreaves sin-binned in the second half for repeated offences.

DWZ: Our country deserved it

England were next to be reduced to 12 with McGillvary binned for a professional foul and the Kiwis pounced with a further two tries.

Jesse Bromwich capped a solid return to the international game with a try under the sticks, before Joseph Tapine crashed over the line in near identical fashion.

Kiwis debutant Isaiah Papali'i got on the field in the 68th minute for an afternoon to remember with the Warriors forward converting Tapine's try moments before the siren.

The crowd found their voices late in the game with the 2018 season coming to a close but the result ultimately put a halt to England's recent run of success against the Kiwis.

Nikorima wins man of the match

"I wasn't happy with the performance but accepted what happened out there and understand it better than most so can move on from there," England coach Wayne Bennett said post-game.

"You never see scorelines like that coming but it happens. We got to the try line on a couple of occasions and they weren't deemed to be tries so it just runs that way some days.

"We've got to keep in perspective we had two great games and played great football. That's why we won the series."

Both sides were a part of a spine-tingling Remembrance Day service in the pre-game ceremony and came together linked arm-in-arm during the ode and minute silence to cap off a series that produced everything for the international game.

Nikorima was named man of the match while Makinson added the George Smith Medal for player of the series to his Golden Boot triumph.

Makinson praises Bennett influence


https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2018/11/12/new-zealand-dominate-in-34-0-victory-over-england/
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,106
What you need to know for your NRL team's 2019 draw
Author
Chris Kennedy & Tanisha Stanton
Timestamp
Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:57 AM


St George Illawarra Dragons


Teams they play twice: Cowboys, Rabbitohs, Knights, Bulldogs, Sea Eagles, Roosters, Eels, Sharks, Titans.

Teams they play once: Broncos, Warriors, Storm, Raiders, Panthers, Wests Tigers.

Day-by-day breakdown: Thursday - Four, Friday - Three, Saturday - Six, Sunday - Ten, Monday – One.

Five-day turnarounds: 3 (Rd 2, Rd 7, Rd 18).

St George Illawarra in 2019
Where will the Dragons finish?

St George Illawarra in 2019 Where will the Dragons finish?
  • They'll be premiers
    0%
  • In the finals but no title
    0%
  • Just miss out on the playoffs
    0%
  • Around the bottom of the ladder
    0%
Kick-off: St George Illawarra will have their mettle tested in the opening month of the season with just one match at home against the Rabbitohs at Kogarah in round two. They also have a couple of trips to Queensland to face the Cowboys and Broncos plus a round-four assignment in Newcastle.

Toughest stretch: Rounds 7-11. The Dragons have four straight games away from their regular home venues from round seven, kicking off against premiers Sydney Roosters at the SCG before a visit to the Eels and a clash with the Warriors at Suncorp for Magic Round, plus a "home" game at Mudgee against the Knights.

And another thing: The Dragons take a home game to picturesque Glen Willow Stadium in Mudgee for the second time after a successful outing there against Canberra last season. This time it will be the Knights getting their first taste of the venue in round 10.

huntb-180425nh21.jpg

Dragons halfback Ben Hunt.



https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2018/11/13/what-you-need-to-know-for-your-nrl-teams-2019-draw/
 

Brutalitops

Juniors
Messages
2,333
I must be the only poster here who very much wants the Dragons to remain in Wollongong as well as WIN Stadium.

What the issue has been in the Illawarra board itself, but the area, stadium and name are now a part of this club. Reverting back to a Sydney-only team would not be a good strategy for the Dragons, yet I feel that many here want this.

The junior catchment along should end this conversation
 

ViceVersa

Juniors
Messages
282
Dragons prepared to offload fullback Dufty in order to nab Hayne
By Adrian Proszenko
13 November 2018 — 11:00pm

St George Illawarra has upped the ante in their pursuit of Jarryd Hayne, with the club prepared to release fullback Matt Dufty in a bid to free up the funds required to meet the cross-code star’s asking price.

The development comes as the Red V move closer towards locking in star NSW forward Tariq Sims on a long-term deal.

Dufty is contracted until the end of next season but rival clubs have been told he could be immediately available. The 22-year-old is hoping to extend his stay at the joint-venture outfit, although he will need to lower his asking price for that to happen.

Hayne is yet to find a club for next season, caught in limbo because Parramatta have not got the salary cap space required to fit him into their roster.

The Eels are desperate to keep him but have only $200,000 left in the kitty. They are hoping to move on at least one player - there is some interest from Newcastle in Michael Jennings - in order to accommodate the two-time Dally M medallist.

It means Hayne is effectively in a holding pattern while two clubs race to offload players deemed surplus to requirements.

Hayne is training on his own while clubless, hoping his future is resolved as soon as possible. He missed Parramatta’s pre-season camp in Armidale last week but the blue and golds continue to leave a top-30 spot open for him.

Their main competition will come from the Dragons, who aren’t sold on Dufty as their long-term No.1. Dufty has shown flashes of brilliance during his 32-game NRL career, scoring 15 tries and displaying blistering pace. However, there are concerns about his lack of size and consistency, prompting the interest in Hayne.

The Dragons have a spot open for a marquee back after the retirement of Jason Nightingale and the release of Nene Macdonald to North Queensland. Hayne is believed to be seeking up to $700,000 to play in the NRL next season and Dufty’s departure would allow the Dragons to get close to that mark.

Another priority for the Red V is the retention of Sims. The backrower was rewarded for his most consistent season with a NSW jersey and is one of the biggest-name forwards off contract at the end of 2019. The Dragons are desperate to retain him and are believed to be close to ensure he stays put.
 
Messages
2,866
I must be the only poster here who very much wants the Dragons to remain in Wollongong as well as WIN Stadium.

What the issue has been in the Illawarra board itself, but the area, stadium and name are now a part of this club. Reverting back to a Sydney-only team would not be a good strategy for the Dragons, yet I feel that many here want this.

The junior catchment along should end this conversation
I would like to see us maintaining Win Stadium as a second home ground and get rid of the Illawarra identity which is nothing more than a parasite and a compromise.
The Club should take back its true identity and be what it's always been - The Mighty Saints (St. George)
The South Coast has and always will be a nursery for the club.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
9,913
I would like to see us maintaining Win Stadium as a second home ground and get rid of the Illawarra identity which is nothing more than a parasite and a compromise.
The Club should take back its true identity and be what it's always been - The Mighty Saints (St. George)
The South Coast has and always will be a nursery for the club.
It will never happen, not in our life time now moving forward in regards to losing the Illawarra name. Lets face it they wont wind the clock back, that is clear as evidenced with NRL admin, so the next move if any will be relocating the whole brand (wont that go down like a lead balloon) or a bigger merger as teams get culled
 

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