Benji set to defect over Gallop's stance

[PJ]

I agree with Jimmy, and Colonel isn't the problem here that Benji would essentially be off contract when he was playing in Japan.

Also the point his manager made I think is valid. The NRL made a big song and dance about Wendell and Rogers coming back, what is really the difference.

 

[hrundi99]

NRL contracts last for 12 months (1st November to 31st October). They don't miraculously end when the team's playing season finishes.

 

[The Colonel]

I still don't think Gallop realises the threat RU - particularly France and Japan - pose in terms of piching top RL talent.

It has been so successful for the French Rugby clubs that have "pinched" RL talent though hasn't it.

Gasnier has played ok but hasn't really set the world on fire and Toulon are battling it out for the spoon. Seems like the French will be beating down our doors to steal more talent.

:lol:

Sorry, the threat is player managers making demands to the NRL that their clients will leave if they don't let them do what they want to do. The sooner the NRL take a tougher stance the less chance there is of this bullsh*t.

 

[The Colonel]

I agree with Jimmy, and Colonel isn't the problem here that Benji would essentially be off contract when he was playing in Japan.

As has been said a contract starts on the 1st November and ends on the 31st October.

Maybe Benji should wait, play in Japan and then come back and sign for the Tigers after his Union commitments are done, hope he doesn't get injured and the Tigers still want him. He is after all committed to League, the game he loves so it shouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, I can't believe the Tigers are ok with one of their best players, renowned for injuries, is allowing him to play for effectively three seasons over two years without a break....... particularly given his history.

 

[dutchy67]

If his contract with his club and the nrl wont allow that , then that is called bad luck. So when he signs a new contract he will write a special clause allowing himself to play outside australia. I hope he does not do a sonny bill.

 

[Pierced Soul]

I think the main argument against marshall doing this is to stop him and the tigers rorting the cap. yes he's off at the end of october, lets say he signs for a few months in japan makes whatever the f**k he can, then comes back before the start of the enxt season and signs with the tigers for $50,000 cos he made a sh*tload in japan.

it's an attempt to rort the cap. whislt i believe a lot of this sh*t is stirred up by a manager who wants a bigger cut, if he wants to walk out let him go.

and the reason rogers and sailor were treated differently is they didnt go for a 2 month stint to boost their finances so they could come back and rort the cap. they also didnt play two codes siumltaneously

 

[PJ]

Maybe Benji should wait, play in Japan and then come back and sign for the Tigers after his Union commitments are done

Isn't that basically what they are proposing?

I disagree that it is rorting the cap, as he can still sign for another club other than the Tigers.

If he was in the middle of a contract then yes, he hasn't got a leg to stand on. In this case he is at the end of it and could go play in Japan then come back and sign a new contract.

 

[Jimmy The Judge]

It has been so successful for the French Rugby clubs that have "pinched" RL talent though hasn't it.

Gasnier has played ok but hasn't really set the world on fire and Toulon are battling it out for the spoon. Seems like the French will be beating down our doors to steal more talent.

:lol:

Sorry, the threat is player managers making demands to the NRL that their clients will leave if they don't let them do what they want to do. The sooner the NRL take a tougher stance the less chance there is of this bullsh*t.

I totally agree agents are vermin but players will always have them and as players are not the sharpest tools in th box, they will always be manipulated by said agents.

I hear what you say about the players they've picked so far but i don't think that will stop them. Also, in France, Paris club Racing are on the verge of breaking into the Top 14 and are rumoured to have a bottomless pit when it comes to funds for signing players. They are apparantley persuing Johnny Wilkinson who, whilst now a lame duck, will still demand a fortune so that shows their spending power.

Colonel - Going back to the players contracts with the NRL you say "they are not allowed to play in another rival competition".....How on earth would the NRL get the Japanese rugby union comp to stand up in a court of law as a rival competition ?

Just to clarify, I'm all for keeping as many players as possible playing rugby league. Union bores me senseless. I'm just trying to be reasonable and think the NRL are setting themselves up for a big fall if they continue to try and play the dictator.

 

[The Colonel]

Isn't that basically what they are proposing?

I disagree that it is rorting the cap, as he can still sign for another club other than the Tigers.

If he was in the middle of a contract then yes, he hasn't got a leg to stand on. In this case he is at the end of it and could go play in Japan then come back and sign a new contract.

No, what he wants to do is sign a contract extension from this year onwards - that would start on the 1st November 2009. He then wants the NRL to allow him to play Rugby Union in Japan.

What that effectively does is allow him to earn money off the Wests Tigers while he is playing in a rival competition. If he gets injured playing Union and misses six months of 2010 for the Tigers he would still be paid by the Tigers.

What I suggested and you have agreed is the fair way for both parties to allow it but not the way Benji's manager wants to do it because he risks losing out of he does get injured.

 

[The Colonel]

Colonel - Going back to the players contracts with the NRL you say "they are not allowed to play in another rival competition".....How on earth would the NRL get the Japanese rugby union comp to stand up in a court of law as a rival competition ?

Union and league are rivals. While they don't fight for the same television rights they are still effectively a competition outside of the NRL. I'm not a lawyer and don't profess to know the outcome but I think they would have a decent case.

 

[Jimmy The Judge]

But mate they're not even in the same country, they almost have different seasons and Japanese rugby has to be one of the smallest (pro) comps in the world.

Anyway, good discussion.

Cheers.

 

[gregstar]

The salary cap is garbage. You want to restrict what a person can earn, then deal with the consequences of slave labour.

LOL! @ slave labour.

yep - absolute poverty & hardship being an nrl player.

i'm all for them earning as much as they can get without bankrupting the game, provided it's within the rules.

if benji can earn more playing yawnion - go hammers champ. but your league career is over.

how is that slave labour?

 

[Glenn]

News flash Benji, you can only play one or another.

It is going to lead to the scenario the cricketers now face with the IPL, then coming back for a domestic summer carrying injuries etc and in turn leading to a downturn in the quality of play, while players whinging they have to tough a schedule, not paid enough etc.

 

[tiger_nick]

if coke wanted to keep there employee but he wanted 3 months off to go and work for a Japanese fruit juice company then i bet they would. how we are apparently in competition with Japanese rugby is beyond me. i dont get it, does gallop think people are going to start supporting the osaka pokemon instead of the wests tigers? its absolute crap!

was there a fuss kicked up when andrew johns played a 20/20 game for nsw whilst under contract for the knights? that promoted cricket a hell of a lot more then benji will ever promote japanese union.

the only people who will be effected by this in reality are the tigers. if they let him go then plan on him playing in 2010, only for benji to get injured over there, the only people it will hurt is themselves. they are willing to take that risk, who are the nrl to stop them?

imo the nrl are looking at this the entirely wrong way. this could be a great thing for our game. does anybody seriously think the sbw's, gasniers, tuquris etc went to union for 'the challenge' ? thats total crap, everyone knows its the money. in the future if inglis, marshall, thurston etc want to earn what they believe they are worth, we no longer need to lose them completely to our game. let them play the off season in japan and fill their kitties up. if their clubs are happy for it then its no skin off anyones nose.

you never know it could even open up a completely new market. the japs could love seeing the skill of these players and become interested in following the players back here. it could lead to tv and sponsorship deals.

however thinking like that requires vision, something our games leaders cleary dont have.

 

[braz]

Didn't wendell sailor do the exact same thing at the end of last season with French rugby??

 

[Glenn]

if coke wanted to keep there employee but he wanted 3 months off to go and work for a Japanese fruit juice company then i bet they would. how we are apparently in competition with Japanese rugby is beyond me. i dont get it, does gallop think people are going to start supporting the osaka pokemon instead of the wests tigers? its absolute crap!

was there a fuss kicked up when andrew johns played a 20/20 game for nsw whilst under contract for the knights? that promoted cricket a hell of a lot more then benji will ever promote japanese union.

the only people who will be effected by this in reality are the tigers. if they let him go then plan on him playing in 2010, only for benji to get injured over there, the only people it will hurt is themselves. they are willing to take that risk, who are the nrl to stop them?

imo the nrl are looking at this the entirely wrong way. this could be a great thing for our game. does anybody seriously think the sbw's, gasniers, tuquris etc went to union for 'the challenge' ? thats total crap, everyone knows its the money. in the future if inglis, marshall, thurston etc want to earn what they believe they are worth, we no longer need to lose them completely to our game. let them play the off season in japan and fill their kitties up. if their clubs are happy for it then its no skin off anyones nose.

you never know it could even open up a completely new market. the japs could love seeing the skill of these players and become interested in following the players back here. it could lead to tv and sponsorship deals.

however thinking like that requires vision, something our games leaders cleary dont have.

What part of under contract don't you understand? A contract doesn't just end after the last league game of the season.
I highly doubt the Tigers would have a contract drawn up for such a important player as Benji, that opens him up to a greater potential of injury and as such impacts on the entire season.

 

[PJ]

i'm all for them earning as much as they can get without bankrupting the game

Exactly. Give the players a share of what the game makes so their wage depends on what they bring in not clubs propping them up with pokies takings.

All revenue from gate takings, tv rights etc, the players get 51%. The rest goes to run the game, junior development etc.

I find it really strange that the players, managers say that the players are underpaid when their salary is inflated by the licenced clubs propping up the football clubs.

 

[DINGb@T]

Gallop is a log.

He keeps suggesting this and suggesting that but he says nothing.

Here's a thought Dave...

Just stop anyone who goes to Union from re-joining the NRL period. If Benji goes after his contract has ended, he's entitled to do that. There isn't a court on the planet that can stop him.

But don't let him back at all. Or Sooky Bill, Gasnier, Gower, sh*tcockski etc. Yep, make it retrospective and don't allow any of them back into the NRL.

We gotta learn from our own history- the only reason League successfully broke away from Union was our flexibility over players entitlements and Unions suicidal knee-jerk reaction banning anyone who played another code.

I wouldn't want to see Marshall go away if I was a Tigers fan (or a Kiwi fan for that matter) but that's just for the lack of pre-season reason and the risk of injury. As for playing for another code I think you sort've need it a bit each way to get the best for League- let the Tigers decide wether they dont mind him switching for a while and, if they're cool with it, limit his time away to half the Japanese season or something. That way you've got the player making some extra money, keeping them happy, but they're only there for a while, flying in and out mid-season as a blow-in rather than a fully established Union player. That'll mean every paper quote is 'Rugby League import Benji Marshal, on short-term loan from the NRL', an advertisement for the place where this player makes his real living. That'll turn Marshal into a billboard for the NRL in Japanese Union circles and a specialist import from a quality League where they need to source superior players. Then all you've gotta do back home is make sure players dont start signing one year contracts so they can play in Japan at the end of every season (what I believe is the major concern for the NRL).

I think there's a lot of nonsense over players not getting paid enough in our code. One way to solve that problem is to let Union top up their wages every now and then for extremely over the top money without getting any long term benefit out of the deal. If we can get Union pouring their money into League for League's benefit it would be the ultimate coup but it's a tight line to walk. But what we can't do is copy Union in their stupidity and paint ourselves into a corner we can never get out of. If we can do it, take their money and run. It's just a question of wether we dictate who benefits from the arrangements. If we can we should and the whole off-season Union thing could be one of those opportunities.

And as much as I want to see him squirm, seeing $onny Bill come crawling back would be good for the game, sort've like a 'I was a foolish little boy and am now listening to what everyone is saying' moment, returning to the best place in the world that he failed to apreciate. That's got 'moral lesson' written all over it and would serve as a warning to any other player who decides he's entitled to more than he thinks he is. By returning it reinforces the fact that League is the best code, a case that only gets stronger with every player who returns, although, again, they should return on League's terms, not for the money.

 

[Redsfan]

If he goes to Japan for any reasonable length of time, he'll probably get capped by them, which is a bit of a joke.

 

[Gus22]

What some of you are failing to grasp is the fact that Benji would be off contract - a free agent. How could he be in breach of a contract when that contract dosn't exist.

Gallop banning Benji from playing in the NRL again, once his short stint in Japan ends, is clearly a restraint of trade. Gallop admitted as much on radio yesterday, but claimed it was would stand up in court as it was a "reasonable" restraint, in order to protect the game.

IMO that's taking a very long bow. How is it reasonable to ban a guy from playing League merely because he played a dozen games of Union in the off season. The precedent on this issue was set by the NRL themselves when they welcomed back Sailor, Rogers, & Walker from their Rugby foray.

Gallop is paranoid about Rugby. He calls it a rival code but is acting as if it's worse than participating in criminal ventures. In recent times, there have been players who have comitted, been charged, and found guilty of actual crimes (eg Naiquama immediately springs to mind), yet the NRL did not de-register them.

From that, we can deduce that in Gallops eyes, it is a far worse crime to play 12 games of Japanese Rugby in your own time, than it would be to commit a criminal act that was ultimately punished a by a gaol sentance and a 10 year driving ban, as judged by common law.

Gallop is/was a lawyer himself and therefore should know better. If anyone should be banned from having any form of involvement in the NRL, then it should be Gallop himself.