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Brett Stewart found not guilty of sexual assault

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
Oh, and well done to Balmain for standing down the five players still involved in the investigation about group sex with that disabled lass :clap:.

No charges laid there, but they also aren't as arrogant to try and claim past "precedents" - the game copped a lot from the average person/potential fan for letting Laffranchi and the Broncos cubicle quartet play on while investigations unfolded. Put the good of the game first Manly, and stand down your grub until such time as they are cleared.

Reports in the media today suggest that Brett Stewart "crash tackled" the girl who was standing outside his apartment.

Now is it just me or is the Brett Stewart thing looking more and more like a mountain out of molehill scenario?

My position on the Brett Stewart thing is that I want to know more information before I stand him down. I know that sounds wierd - but the whole thing has sounded suspicious from the outset.

I think drawing parallels between the gang rape of a disabled person and what very well may be a drunken practical joke with no malice that has gone wrong does nobody any favours at all.
 
Messages
2,137
yeah I have this impression that being blind drunk, you are hardly interested in raping women, but more likely he may have tried to hug her with a drunken giggle and just knocked her over. Just a theory, but if he really was so drunk he can`t remember anything, in that condition men do not go trying to rape women. Sexual assault is usually about control over women, and men who do it are perfectly in control of their actions. He was hardly in control of himself, if the reports are true.
 
Messages
2,137
to be honest im amazed at your post.

surely the presumption of innocence is more important than the good name of rugby league?!

like it or not these players are entitled to such a presumption , to stand them down off an allegation alone is not only draconian its just plain selfish.

the past precedents are there becuase these players have rights. Those rights are more important than rugby league.

and standing down someone until they are cleared is just plain ludicrous ,we all know how slowly our legal system can move at times. It could realistically take up to 1 to 1 1/2 years to clear someone of a sexual assault allegation. What do you propose as compensation if they are found not guilty?

If you think the player drain is bad now , wait until we take all the players rights away.


:clap:
 

ShadesOfTheSun

Juniors
Messages
646
Not to mention the fact that he did it in the presence of multiple witnesses who subsequently pulled him off the girl. What kind of would-be rapist makes such a spectacle of his attempted rape?
 

WhiteWesWelker

Juniors
Messages
40
yeah I have this impression that being blind drunk, you are hardly interested in raping women, but more likely he may have tried to hug her with a drunken giggle and just knocked her over. Just a theory, but if he really was so drunk he can`t remember anything, in that condition men do not go trying to rape women. Sexual assault is usually about control over women, and men who do it are perfectly in control of their actions. He was hardly in control of himself, if the reports are true.

Maybe he crash tackled her and started trying to touch her breasts or touch her inappropriately, not in a way to rape her, but in a sad joke way.

Alcohol makes you lose the ability to make decisions and think of consequences, and really, when guys are drunk they will do stuff like that.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
So they choose 2009 and this incident to start the stand, rather than whatever year the other incidents took place? Take a stand, thats fine, im all for it, but it is unfair to stewart, definitely unfair, to suddenyl impose a whole range of punishments for the same or similar siutations. However you spin it it is still unfair that stewart would cop a punishment that others didnt, and its not like these other incidents took place 30 years ago in another era, it was within the last 3-5 years or so. Yes whatever happened shouldnt have happened, but im not syaing this situation is unfair on stewart in reagrds to the girl, im saying it would be in reagrds to other players in similar situations who were not stood down. But like I said, if manly chooses to stand him down, fine. My only problem is the nrl picking and choosing when to get involved.
We have to draw a line somehwere, if we want the behaviour of players and the image and marketability of the game to improve.

If that's unfair when compared to events of the past fine, but to move forward there has to be different apporaches, not excuses, or referring back to precedents. You might b efine with having the game dragged through the gutter every time a player drinks too much or can't keep his dick in his pants, but I think things have to change. Why not start at the next calendar year after the Centenary year was tarnished by so much bad player behaviour?

That is no reason to throw it out as a precedent. The situation is no different. A player has brought disrepute to the code and the club with sexual assualt claims borught against them. He wasnt suspended. It would be unfair to not use this as a precedent.
See above. One was done after a club function, so the players current club could be said to be partly culpable for tehir player's actions given he partook of alcohol on their watch. Quite different, and why make the excuse? Why need to follow imperfect precedents? Do you want this sh*t happening through whatever club on a weekly basis?

Ignoring precedent is not what our society is built on, and you would be spewing if you broke the law and the judge threw out precedent and then threw the book at you when others in a similar situation got a slap on the wrist.
It's a different situation. Lafranchi's cheated on his wife in someone's flat and it became an issue of consent. This is an open public drunken attack of some nature on a 17 year old following a public club function.

And judges change (or set) precedents all the time, when the circumstances are different. What would you call the Mabo and Wik decisions versus the previous "precedent" of Terra Nullius? There were "precedents" in this country of aboriginals being locked up purely because of what race they were. Society moves on, and things like precedents do change with the times.

Again, if you want to change things put out a rule now and say further crap like this will be treated in such and such a way, but you cant go changing the rules after its occurred or because the player is more high profile (at the time of incident) or whatever reason.
I'm suggesting the NRL were ropeable about the damage to the game through player behaviour in the centenary year, and through their member clubs are likely pushing them for zero tolerance and a common process where allegations lead to charges of a serious nature against players. This priority could have been emphasised at the end of year clubs conference, so nothing new. Is it unfair because all players weren't sat down and told, "listen, you can't break the law now and expect to keep playing"? If stood down this year they'll all still be on full pay like Bird was, so what's the problem?
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Reports in the media today suggest that Brett Stewart "crash tackled" the girl who was standing outside his apartment.

Now is it just me or is the Brett Stewart thing looking more and more like a mountain out of molehill scenario?

My position on the Brett Stewart thing is that I want to know more information before I stand him down. I know that sounds wierd - but the whole thing has sounded suspicious from the outset.

I think drawing parallels between the gang rape of a disabled person and what very well may be a drunken practical joke with no malice that has gone wrong does nobody any favours at all.
All I'm saying is lets stand him down - on full pay like Bird - and get it cleared up first. Nothing to do with the presumption of innocence. It's to do with due process and the good of the game.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
No. It's not the incident that he needs standing down for. It's the fact he admitted to being blind drunk he couldn't remember a thing. Tell me how you would think if this was your club?

1 week out from the season there is star players punching out sponsors causing other disruptions. I think you will find it's the same with the Balmain players. They broke curfew causes trouble as a result HAD to be stood down.

The same with Greg Bird lied to the club HAD to be stood down. The same stood apply here with Watmough also
 

MSIH

Bench
Messages
3,807
You can't stand a player down before they've even been charged.

Btw, it's got everything to do with the presumption of innocence. As it stands, Stewart is innocent. Being punished without guilt is a ridiculous suggestion.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
to be honest im amazed at your post.

surely the presumption of innocence is more important than the good name of rugby league?!

like it or not these players are entitled to such a presumption , to stand them down off an allegation alone is not only draconian its just plain selfish.

the past precedents are there becuase these players have rights. Those rights are more important than rugby league.

and standing down someone until they are cleared is just plain ludicrous ,we all know how slowly our legal system can move at times. It could realistically take up to 1 to 1 1/2 years to clear someone of a sexual assault allegation. What do you propose as compensation if they are found not guilty?

If you think the player drain is bad now , wait until we take all the players rights away.
Standing down has nothing to do with the presumption of guilt. What is lost to the game - or the player himself who would be on full pay, like Bird was all that time - by being stood down so a process can be implemented.

If the player has nothing to hide, then there's no problem. They'll be keen to be on the field asap no doubt, as will his club, so that should see them both cooperating with and hurrying up the police enquiries to the point where a player can be cleared.

If a player is charged, then that extends the situation. But the club can keep the player at full pay until verdict if they choose, and it's a lesson to all to tighten up their behaviour and not allow themselves to get in these position. Or in other words to grow up, earn their massive money, and not put their employer or their industry in the gutter with their off-field behaviour.

It's not draconian, and there would be no compensation. No rights are being abused at all. The player still gets paid, the club misses his services though, That would make the clubs less likely to be compliant in this type of behaviour (as talk of an NRL fine for Manly re their launch indicates), and less likely to put up with general sh*t from their employees in their leisure time, as we have seen increase in recent years.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
You can't stand a player down before they've even been charged.

Btw, it's got everything to do with the presumption of innocence. As it stands, Stewart is innocent. Being punished without guilt is a ridiculous suggestion.
Indeed you can. Politicians stand down (or aside) while enquiries are conducted, with many to resume their position once cleared. Many employees in many industries stand down when allegations are made against them, until they are investigated and the person is cleared or internally disciplined. No change of pay occurs, it's simply due process.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
No. It's not the incident that he needs standing down for. It's the fact he admitted to being blind drunk he couldn't remember a thing. Tell me how you would think if this was your club?

1 week out from the season there is star players punching out sponsors causing other disruptions. I think you will find it's the same with the Balmain players. They broke curfew causes trouble as a result HAD to be stood down.

The same with Greg Bird lied to the club HAD to be stood down. The same stood apply here with Watmough also
Good point, you've said it better than me.

Regardless of whether charges are made or proved, codes have been broken that should allow the employer (club) to stand down their employee (on full pay) while they are investigated. Simple really.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I don't think you can stand a player down any time an issue comes up. It opens it possibilities for extortion, and quite simply doesn't really achieve anything. You bring up "the good of the game" but to be honest I can't see the game losing or gaining any fans whether or not Brett Stewart plays while these dubious allegations are investigated. And yes, I think the Greg Bird case was different. He lied to police, and refused to say what happened to his coach and CEO. To me it comes down to a case by case basis, and even then it is and should be up to the club.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
You can't stand a player down before they've even been charged.

Btw, it's got everything to do with the presumption of innocence. As it stands, Stewart is innocent. Being punished without guilt is a ridiculous suggestion.


Exactly right. Ignore the loud mouthed crusader.


The fact is, regardless of the "facts" we hear about the case. Brett is an innocent man until such a time as he is charged & convicted.


Dead set, the way Bartman is carrying on I swear he has a family member who has been raped and his taking out his anger on whatever public figure he can.


No single person here would accept being ousted from the workplace by their employer for being accused of a crime until such a time as they had been convicted, and the same standard smust be applied here.


As for the Balmain players being stood down - They were stood down for breaking curfew yes? Did Brett break curfew or any club rules? (The club will find it hard to punish someone for getting plastered given it was a club sanctioned function where the players were drinking in front of club officials - Check your OH&S laws Bartman, the onus of responsibility falls on the employer in this situation to ensure the well being of the employee, not the other way around - If you go to your work xmas party and free booze is provided and you trip and fall on the way home ..... you have a legit workcover claim)
 
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bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
[@ Adam kungl]

Ok.

Already the Stewart incident lead to a joke at league's expense on Good News Week last night.

I went to a BBQ on Sunday where people were sneering at league in disbelief, of how a player could get drunk and f**k up like this on the day of the league's launch about it's program against domestic violence...

We don't lose any potential fans by having tarnished players like Stewart, the Broncos three, Lafranchi, whoever else you care to name playing with this hanging over their heads and in the media and the minds of the community? Sure...

As for the risk of extortion, that risk isn't going to increase. Some people already claim that every allegation comes from money grabbing dubious characters even when players aren't stood down. Nothing will change, except that the game might be seen by people to be taking a better stand, and therefore it might win (back) fans (females, families, some males) that deserted the game in droves after the Bulldogs efforts in Coffs.

If it comes down to a case by case basis and club discretion, then you get people whining about double standards :lol:. Let's fix our game up - let's not invent excuses for this. Stand players down and get things investigated quickly, and then the player reinstated (positive story!) if they've done nothing wrong that leads to any charges.
 
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bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
No single person here would accept being ousted from the workplace by their employer for being accused of a crime until such a time as they had been convicted, and the same standard smust be applied here.
It actually happens quite regularly. Check your employee misconduct and grievance policies or the like. You remain on full pay, while your name is cleared (or otherwise). Let's see - it applies to teachers. It applies to medical staff. It applies in universities. It applies in corporations... the same standards should be applied here.

Check your OH&S laws Bartman, the onus of responsibility falls on the employer in this situation to ensure the well being of the employee, not the other way around)
I agree the club is partly culpable in this incident - that's why the NRL is looking at hitting them with a significant fine, regardless of whether any charges eventuate.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,343
The sponsor involved (Paul) with Watmough has just rang up Steve Price on 2UE and said that he was indeed punched by Watmough and is still considering taken the matter further. He says Watmough made derogatory remarks about his 21 year old daughter who was present at the function.

Watch this one get a life of its own.
 

WhiteWesWelker

Juniors
Messages
40
This is going to be a disaster for Rugby League if that Watmough thing is true as well.

Watch, Stewart will be charged Wednesday or Thursday. With the charges, will come more details and THAT my friends will be the headlines. Not the kick off of the competition.

No matter how good of a player or a person either Stewart or Watmough are, the NRL and clubs invest a lot of time and effort into teaching players how to avoid these incidents, this is just them pissing in the face of it.
 

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