Brief history of league (and battle against union) in France

[Calixte]

Calixte,
my understanding is you are an international lawyer, specialist in French laws: civil, commercial, sports, banking, constitutionnal, penal, consummers, financial, customs, associative, ....

- What is the statute of the sport federations in France ?
- What is the statute of the sport clubs in France ?
- what is the statute of the National Technical Director ?, of the Regional Technical Advisors ?, of the Departemental Technical Advisors ? in the French sport federations

Is US Villeneuve.13 a branch ? or a subsidiary ? of the FFR.13, or an independant NGO ?
in aug. 2004 US Villeneuve.13 fell in bankruptcy, why to avoid the bankruptcy the FFR.13 didn't take in charge the debts of the club ?

Is AS Carcassonne.13 a branch ? or a subsidiary ? of the FFR.13, or an independant NGO ? or an independant EUSRL ?
in sept. 2007 AS Carcassonne.13 EUSRL fell in bankruptcy,
- why to avoid the bankruptcy the FFR.13 didn't take in charge the debts of the club ?,
- why to avoid the bankruptcy the AS Carcassonne.13 NGO didn't take in charge the debts of the club AS Carcassonne.13 EUSRL ?

In France, the properties of the clubs are they the properties of their respective federations ?

In France on my knowledge only 1 rugby stadium is private, is this stadium the property of the Stade Toulousain RU ?, or the property of the multi-sport club Stade Toulousain ?, or the property of the NGO "Les Amis du Stade Toulousain" ?, or the property of a company/several companies like EDF or Total or Bouygues or EADS or IBM or .... ?

In Perpignan,
- for the stadium Gilbert Brutus, who is the Owner and Lessor ? who is the Lessee and Occupant ?
- for the stadium Aimé Giral, who is the Owner and Lessor ? who is the Lessee and Occupant ?
In Paris,
- for the stadium Parc des Princes, who is the Owner and Lessor ? who is the Lessee and Occupant ?
- for the stadium Jean Bouin, who is the Owner and Lessor ? who is the Lessee and Occupant ?
In Villeneuve,
- for the stadium Robert de la Myre Mory, who is the Owner and lessor (simple Convention of Mise à disposition and use) ? who is/are the lessee(s) (right of disposition and use) and occupant(s) ?


Perhaps in Australia
RL clubs and stadiums are the properties of the ARL,
same thing for clubs and stadiums of your other sport federations.



Calixte as your are very fluent in French, you know this:
"Pas plus sourd que celui qui veut pas voir, Pas plus aveugle que celui qui veut pas entendre, Savoir faire l'âne pour avoir du son ou, Savoir faire du son pour avoir l'âne ou, Savoir faire l'âne pour savoir faire du son ou, Savoir faire du son pour savoir faire l'âne ".

.

Your madness is disconcerting at times, jpds!

I am very conversant with the structure of French sport and I recently spent some quality time in the south with French luminaries of the game.

There is no doubt that:-

- French rugby league was harshly treated as a result of rugby union influence during the Second World War;
- that has had a major impact on the development of rugby league in France, particularly as no proper recognition or compensation has occurred;
- rugby union has continued to use available political influence, amongst other things, to hamper the development of rugby league in France (much of this is difficult to pinpoint due to the very nature of the interference); and
- some co-operation has occurred between the codes in France, but this is significantly in the minority.

As for your French quote, all I can say is, "une description très équitable d'entre vous..."

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Caliste instead of reply to the questions you prefer disparage an other French (i don't know him but i read him on Villeneuve forum (he knows less than you ? or the FFR.13 managers less than you ?)

- 1947 to 1965: what is vichy ?

- compensation: what is it the statute Hight Level Sport ? when you don't comply with the law to have it !!!!!!!!!!

- recognition: what is it the approval of the Republic ?, what is it member of the French Olympic Committee ?

- RU political influence: in your international company don't you never make lobbying ??, is it RU or soccer or cycling responsible if French RL holds none international or national company big boss ??? politicians ??? or, if big boss or politicians have none interest for RL ????


I notice in all case you have the good answer (like French communists about USSR, about Stalin' crimes, life was better in USSR, ....)

 

[taipan]

No mention of France hosting the RLWC twice post WWII, first in 1954 when they narrowly lost in the final, then again in 1972 they hosted it a second time. Also they were runners up in 1968.

In 1951 France won a series in Australia and they repeated this in 1955. Again in 1978 France beat the Aussies twice.

More recently in 1990 they beat a Great Britain team including Shaun Edwards, Garry Schofield, Martin Offiah and Denis Betts.


The failure of league in France has only itself to blame, to point the finger at rugby is simply trying to come up with a convinient excuse for it's own failings!


Let's hear the excuses then boys?

Let's hear it for the vichy cheerleader, Clive Woody.Living in his land of delusion as usual.
FRL wins a few tests and holds world cups,so the FRU is absolved of any responsibility LOL.
Lets be hypothetical,should no occupation have occurred ,and the FRL which was booming prior to the invasion continued on unaffected through the post war years ,would the game be in the so called situation it is today,even allowing for poor mgt at times.The answer is a resounding no.
To state as you have done that the FRL is ONLY to blame for the current situation,after it has had decades of non official govt recognition and lack of support,is laughable at best.It played a part a not small one BTW.
In Australia rl has at times had poor mgt,it had a SL war which brought the game to its kneesand took 12 years to get back on its feet,with all the infrastructure reasonably intact,and govt assistance continuing.Yet using your analogy rl has only itself to blame,not News Ltd.Yeah right.
When you acknowledge as you have never done on a rl forum,that rl in France was banned during WW2 with some union assistance,and not officially recognised for decades as a rugby code,then you might show a shred of credibility.
Did rugby union want rl banned in France when the vichy was in charge? Yes or no!

 

[taipan]

They use Euros in France these days, they have done for quite a while now.

Do you have a list of the assets that were supposedly taken from the FRL?

Conversely supply a list of assets taken from the Jews during WW2.Sheesh!The offices were burnt down.They didn't keep it on hard disc FFS.

 

[Calixte]

Caliste instead of reply to the questions you prefer disparage an other French (i don't know him but i read him on Villeneuve forum (he knows less than you ? or the FFR.13 managers less than you ?)

- 1947 to 1965: what is vichy ?

- compensation: what is it the statute Hight Level Sport ? when you don't comply with the law to have it !!!!!!!!!!

- recognition: what is it the approval of the Republic ?, what is it member of the French Olympic Committee ?

- RU political influence: in your international company don't you never make lobbying ??, is it RU or soccer or cycling responsible if French RL holds none international or national company big boss ??? politicians ??? or, if big boss or politicians have none interest for RL ????


I notice in all case you have the good answer (like French communists about USSR, about Stalin' crimes, life was better in USSR, ....)

I take it I am "Caliste"?

If you aren't him, your respective "essays" on rugby league, read like the delusional writings of separated twins...

 

[magpie_man]

As much as i hate the lies that union15vichy+lollipoper spouts sh*t in here i do feel sorry for him at times trying to argue on complicated matters with people in a second language.....can't be easy.

Whatever sympathy I have for him quickly disappears when he starts bringing up ridiculously irrelevant stuff like Australia not letting in Dutch Jew refugees during WWII.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Whatever sympathy I have for him quickly disappears when he starts bringing up ridiculously irrelevant stuff like Australia not letting in Dutch Jew refugees during WWII.

magpie_man if false write to the autors

July 1, 1940 in History
Event:Australia refuses entry to Dutch Jewish refugees
http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1940/july_1_1940_98678.html



From Refugees to "Friendly Aliens"
The total number of Jewish refugees reaching Australia between 1933 and 1945 was 8,200.
http://www.couragetocare.com.au/Content_Common/internal.aspx?Id=E384296E-4865-44E7-A4F8-D40AF56916BA


"those Jewish refugees who had arrived before the war from Germany, Austria and Hungary were labelled as "enemy aliens"."
http://www.holocaust.com.au/mm/i_australia.htm

"Not ' desirable':"
http://arts.anu.edu.au/sss/apsa/Papers/pietsch.pdf

 

[miguel de cervantes]

magpie_man if false write to the autors

July 1, 1940 in History
Event:Australia refuses entry to Dutch Jewish refugees
http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1940/july_1_1940_98678.html



From Refugees to "Friendly Aliens"
The total number of Jewish refugees reaching Australia between 1933 and 1945 was 8,200.
http://www.couragetocare.com.au/Content_Common/internal.aspx?Id=E384296E-4865-44E7-A4F8-D40AF56916BA


"those Jewish refugees who had arrived before the war from Germany, Austria and Hungary were labelled as "enemy aliens"."
http://www.holocaust.com.au/mm/i_australia.htm

"Not ' desirable':"
http://arts.anu.edu.au/sss/apsa/Papers/pietsch.pdf

He is not saying it is false, it's just completely irrelavent. Vraiment du n'importe quoi, rien à voir avec le XIII.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

mon cher miguel de cervantes quand certains viennent ici mettre le regime de vichy hors de l'occupation de la France, de l'Europe par les verts de gris raciaux soit 2 faits à l'origine de sa naissance et qui ont provoqué l'interdiction de plusieurs sports, de plusieurs fédérations laïques, ils feraient bien de balayer devant leur porte car l'Australie, à cette époque, n'a pas à oublier qu'elle n'a pas été une terre d'accueil alors qu'elle n'était pas occupée par un régime racial (quoique avec les Aborigènes).

je vous croyais un peu plus intellectuellement honnête, pour vous aussi le régime de vichy est tombé du ciel ou c'est les Français qui l'ont créé sans aucune contraintes intérieures et extérieures.
Qu'attendez vous pour écrire que Pétain a fait un pusch militaire, que De Gaulle s'est enfui à Londres; Peut être vous avez la réponse à : pourquoi De Gaulle n'a pas fait fusillé le Maréchal Pétain ?
si je vous comprend bien vous australiens (depuis que je vous lis et tous les sous-entendus de certains) la France était occupée par les armées françaises et les boches étaient de gentils touristes.

Pour vous celà doit être sans importance: si pas de Hitler, pas d'occupation féroce de l'Europe continentale, pas de vichy (France et d'autres pays), pas de gauleiter (nord de la France et d'autres pays), pas de millions de morts, pas de millions de refugiés, pas d'interdiction de plusieurs sports et de 7 fédérations en France.

c'est "Vraiment du n'importe quoi," chez vous de dissocier des faits, des événements liés entre eux, qui n'ont pas comme vous dites "rien à voir avec le XIII" même en Australie, dont certains citoyens veulent ici nous donner des leçons de connaissance alors que tout est lié et est le résultat d'Hitler et ses sbires.
A l'évidence ont apprend pas l'Histoire: causes, origines, effets, tenants, aboutissants, conséquences de la même façon en Australie et en France.



vous feriez bien de relire ce que dit M. Rylance sur le forum de Villeneuve

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

for the nice Calixte
as you are excellent, the best in French RL, inform Robert Fassolette -Creator and Chairman of 13Actif-, Nicolas Larrat -Chairman of FFR.13- that on the web false French Republic decrees for French RL -1946, 1949- are broadcasted on this forum or in other places if it is or you are aware.
and require them to also copy to me their answer to you.

 

[Calixte]

for the nice Calixte
as you are excellent, the best in French RL, inform Robert Fassolette -Creator and Chairman of 13Actif-, Nicolas Larrat -Chairman of FFR.13- that on the web false French Republic decrees for French RL -1946, 1949- are broadcasted on this forum or in other places if it is or you are aware.
and require them to also copy to me their answer to you.

?

 

[Sam_the_man]

Whats the king of vichy on about now?

 

[Calixte]

mon cher miguel de cervantes quand certains viennent ici mettre le regime de vichy hors de l'occupation de la France, de l'Europe par les verts de gris raciaux soit 2 faits à l'origine de sa naissance et qui ont provoqué l'interdiction de plusieurs sports, de plusieurs fédérations laïques, ils feraient bien de balayer devant leur porte car l'Australie, à cette époque, n'a pas à oublier qu'elle n'a pas été une terre d'accueil alors qu'elle n'était pas occupée par un régime racial (quoique avec les Aborigènes).

je vous croyais un peu plus intellectuellement honnête, pour vous aussi le régime de vichy est tombé du ciel ou c'est les Français qui l'ont créé sans aucune contraintes intérieures et extérieures.
Qu'attendez vous pour écrire que Pétain a fait un pusch militaire, que De Gaulle s'est enfui à Londres; Peut être vous avez la réponse à : pourquoi De Gaulle n'a pas fait fusillé le Maréchal Pétain ?
si je vous comprend bien vous australiens (depuis que je vous lis et tous les sous-entendus de certains) la France était occupée par les armées françaises et les boches étaient de gentils touristes.

Pour vous celà doit être sans importance: si pas de Hitler, pas d'occupation féroce de l'Europe continentale, pas de vichy (France et d'autres pays), pas de gauleiter (nord de la France et d'autres pays), pas de millions de morts, pas de millions de refugiés, pas d'interdiction de plusieurs sports et de 7 fédérations en France.

c'est "Vraiment du n'importe quoi," chez vous de dissocier des faits, des événements liés entre eux, qui n'ont pas comme vous dites "rien à voir avec le XIII" même en Australie, dont certains citoyens veulent ici nous donner des leçons de connaissance alors que tout est lié et est le résultat d'Hitler et ses sbires.
A l'évidence ont apprend pas l'Histoire: causes, origines, effets, tenants, aboutissants, conséquences de la même façon en Australie et en France.



vous feriez bien de relire ce que dit M. Rylance sur le forum de Villeneuve

Mes cher jpds et Miguel,

Mes excuses pour mon français pauvre.

Quelques faits :-

1. Il n'y a pas d'Australie excusant épouvante le rapport en ce qui concerne le traitement des gens Aborigènes de ce pays.

2. La Guerre de monde Deux étaient le conflit militaire le plus atroce dans l'histoire de la planète.

3. Arborer ne peut pas être séparé de son contexte politique.

4. Ayant dit tout cela, les actions de rugby française étaient honteuses et reste non résolu.

De Gaulle a joué un rôle clé, à mon avis, dans priver du droit électoral de rugby après la fin de la Deuxième Guerre de Monde - malgré le fait c'était un sport lourdement associé avec la résistance française.

J'ai le beaucoup de temps pour M Rylance et ai lu les deux versions de langue de son livre, "The Forbidden Game".

 

[Calixte]

Dans le contexte dernier (re- de Gaulle), je le rugby moyen dans le sens de paley.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

calixte, for you any French who gives information not corresponding to your thoughts, not corresponding to your small knowledge of the French RL is jpds; Phoenix, ... is/are he/they also ? . You are very funny ?

To reply to your points
1. Aborigine: why in 2007 they haven't all rights like the whites ? or, only from a very small number of years ? ; they weren't in australia before the whites ?, do you agree the white treatment since the 18th century ?

2. World War II: ok, but what do you think of World War I ?

3. Arborer: sorry i have difficulty with the meaning

4. rugby français, non résolu: what do you know ?, what are your sources ?, are they updated (we are in 2007) ?
PS: in your job, do you agree that your colleagues take your clients ?, your money ? take your reports and say i am the writer ? .....
what do you know of the sport philosophy in France before 1940 ?, 1960 ?, 1970/1990 ?

5. De Gaulle: can you remind us the periods when he was Head of the government ?, President ?, were you the confident of de gaulle ?

6. RL (all players, managers, fans) equal to résistance française ? ; RU (all players, managers, fans) equal to vichy collabos ?, nazis ?
can you give us your sources ? , the sources of your mythe ?, examples ?





Yes man

Pour faire tuer son chien il faut clamer qu'il a la rage


Pas plus sourd que celui qui veut pas voir,
Pas plus aveugle que celui qui veut pas entendre,


Savoir faire l'âne pour avoir du son ou,
Savoir faire du son pour avoir l'âne ou,
Savoir faire l'âne pour savoir faire du son ou,
Savoir faire du son pour savoir faire l'âne .

 

[Sam_the_man]

calixte, for you any French who gives information not corresponding to your thoughts, not corresponding to your small knowledge of the French RL is jpds; Phoenix, ... is/are he/they also ? . You are very funny ?

To reply to your points
1. Aborigine: why in 2007 they haven't all rights like the whites ? or, only from a very small number of years ? ; they weren't in australia before the whites ?, do you agree the white treatment since the 18th century ?

2. World War II: ok, but what do you think of World War I ?

3. Arborer: sorry i have difficulty with the meaning

4. rugby français, non résolu: what do you know ?, what are your sources ?, are they updated (we are in 2007) ?
PS: in your job, do you agree that your colleagues take your clients ?, your money ? take your reports and say i am the writer ? .....
what do you know of the sport philosophy in France before 1940 ?, 1960 ?, 1970/1990 ?

5. De Gaulle: can you remind us the periods when he was Head of the government ?, President ?, were you the confident of de gaulle ?

6. RL (all players, managers, fans) equal to résistance française ? ; RU (all players, managers, fans) equal to vichy collabos ?, nazis ?
can you give us your sources ? , the sources of your mythe ?, examples ?





Yes man

Pour faire tuer son chien il faut clamer qu'il a la rage


Pas plus sourd que celui qui veut pas voir,
Pas plus aveugle que celui qui veut pas entendre,


Savoir faire l'âne pour avoir du son ou,
Savoir faire du son pour avoir l'âne ou,
Savoir faire l'âne pour savoir faire du son ou,
Savoir faire du son pour savoir faire l'âne .

De Galle was a passionate union fan and wanted union to be the French national sport. He made union the offical sport of the armed forces. Perhapes this explains why league wasn't unbanned in France until 1947? Also why was it still illegal for league to be called RUGBY league until 1998 in France 53 years after the sport was banned.

Whats world war 1 got to do with rugby league? Rugby league in France didn't begin until 1936 through Jean Galea.

Why has union never offered to compensate league for the thieft that took place durring WW2? Why has union never offered an apology for it's crime against league durring the Nazi occupation. The recent union world cup in France was built on rugby league money, union was in desperate trouble before it had league banned.....any profits from the union WC should be paided to French RL as compensation.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

As sam the man knows very well France, studies for him

http://www.revue-quasimodo.org/PDFs/3-4%20-%20Auger%20Sport%20Fascisme%20Front%20Populaire.pdf

http://lesrapports.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/BRP/004001499/0000.pdf

http://www.cdos94.org/CRIB/telechargement/sport-et-vie-sociale.pdf


:music1: