What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Central Coast Bears NRL Bid.

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,215
With that model they could add a 2nd team to Perth and Melbourne.

Sydney x 6
Brisbane x 3
Melbourne x 2
Perth x 2
Adelaide x 1
Canberra x 1
Gold Coast x 1
Newcastle x 1
Townsville x 1
New Zealand x 2

That 18-team template I outlined would give us a great footprint AND scope for things like that if we go to 20 teams.

It also allows for adding other options (NZ 3, a team in central Qld or Sunshine Coast, and yes maybe a stand-alone team in Gosford) *IF* any of those reach the critical mass in the 2030s/2040s that makes an NRL team viable.

Most likely Perth & Melbourne derbies before any of that eventuates, though... but you never can tell what priorities the NRL may place in that scenario.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,008
That 18-team template I outlined would give us a great footprint AND scope for things like that if we go to 20 teams.

It also allows for adding other options (NZ 3, a team in central Qld or Sunshine Coast, and yes maybe a stand-alone team in Gosford) *IF* any of those reach the critical mass in the 2030s/2040s that makes an NRL team viable.

Most likely Perth & Melbourne derbies before any of that eventuates, though... but you never can tell what priorities the NRL may place in that scenario.
All this only if the game takes off in both WA and Victoria, and i dont see it happening but since you're going off populations vs Club reach, then that would make sense, but i'd be looking at where the game is already strong, or growing before adding a 2nd team in a non heartland area, PNG, Fiji, Nz3, CQ would have to be in contention before a 2nd team in Wa or Vic, we don't even have one in Wa yet
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,215
All this only if the game takes off in both WA and Victoria, and i dont see it happening but since you're going off populations vs Club reach, then that would make sense, but i'd be looking at where the game is already strong, or growing before adding a 2nd team in a non heartland area, PNG, Fiji, Nz3, CQ would have to be in contention before a 2nd team in Wa or Vic, we don't even have one in Wa yet

Yeah, to be honest I think in my scenario, if the NRL went from those 18 to 20 (which as I've said is about the limit IMO), it could go in a number of directions for teams 19 & 20.

2nd teams in Perth or Melbourne may bring value with a derby (especially 2nd Perth = possible late game every weekend for TV), NZ 3 bolsters the game here, and places like Central Qld and Pacific Islands may possibly work if the NRL values them enough to put differential funding in place. (A smaller market could well need bigger grants, but if the NRL strategically values having a team there.. *shrugs*)
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
How many of them are club members who attend matches?

They might be growing, but so is every other metropolitan area in Australia.

Do you have any hard evidence that the population growth will lead to more fans for the Sharks and Dragons?

Yeah, and?

I fail to see how this means the Sharks should be in Cronulla instead of Perth.

This isn't true and is a blatant lie. The data from Pythagonrl shows Cronulla are one of the least watched clubs on TV. I've shown you the graph a few times now, so you cannot say you're unaware of this evidence. I'll show it again to prove my point, since you want hard evidence and not assumptions.

View attachment 46893 View attachment 46894

This information, which is hard evidence, shows Tigers and Bulldogs are limiting one another's growth and Dragons and Sharks are doing the same to each other. Having just 1 of Tigers or Bulldogs and 1 of Dragons or Sharks in Sydney, with the other 2 going to Adelaide and Perth, will lead to an increase in viewers for all 4 clubs.

Cronulla and St George have struggled in these areas for years.

You've been shown evidence that the Wests Tigers and St George Illawarra Dragons are far more sustainable than Balmain, Wests, St George and Illawarra were as standalone clubs. Attendances have improved significantly, especially in Illawarra.

Participation is down all over Sydney, despite it having 9 NRL clubs. The decline is due to stigma and safety issues. A parent who does not want their son to play a game because they think it's dangerous and low brow isn't going to be swayed into letting him play just because there are 9 unsustainable NRL clubs in the area, most of whom are reliant on a $13m grant just to survive. Dropping that number down to 7 or 6 clubs will have zero influence on what sport they let their son play.


Look arguing back and forth with you is a time waster.The point is the club is doing something about growing it's brand, and I repeat one more time the crowds and memberships on. per population basis are far greater than Brisbane.
That is a lot of BS.When the Dragons and Sharks play in the local derby weather permitting they get big crowds .Remove local derbies you remove just one of the unique aspects.

I don't tell blatant lies champ.Tv ratings go up and down ,and if you have half a clue check TV ratings involving the Sharks on Fox over the years.You know Fox who pay a much bigger slice of the Tv revenue.
Crowds and Tv ratings are affected by performances.

On the contrary and your assumption, if clubs are relocated to Perth, the tv ratings will jump dramatically,thej crowds will be huge, the deal will be worth large sums to the NRL,whereas supposedly a new Brisbane club will be worth $50m.So show us the empirical evidence where relocation will be the be all and end all.Not just your innermost thoughts.

"You fail to see", that sums it up, you indeed fail to see.I've spelt out quite clearly, but you ignore my posts where I stated the very reasons why the Sharks should not be relocated, unless they are financial poo.
I've spelt out monotonously where flicking the Bears and joint ventures have not been the big lift in terms of junior numbers and huge crowd increases that you might suggest.
Yep junior numbers are down in Sydney, and by your brilliant assumption, relocating or removing clubs is going to help that situation, sheesh.And Cronulla is one of the stronger clubs when it comes to juniors.
It's not a case of the Shire might be growing ,it is.

That information of yours is not hard evidence,The Dogs have not been performing well for a while.The Dogs have their home base and removing them from their home base is not going to boost the Tigers numbers the way you think.Removing the Bears did nothing to boost Tigers crowds nor Easts.

Well mate there is probably just as much chance of the Sharks snaring some of that population increase ,with their return to Sharks park and its upgraded facilities, as there is the Broncos packing their stadium every week ,with 2.5m they should be doing.I would further suggest whilst some may not be interested in teh NRL,they may well attend the Licencee club right next to the new retail complex, to boost revenue.
You understand the Tigers were in deep financial poo as their :Licensed club development fell through and Illawarra were in financial trouble.These joint ventures were more a matter of survivability for each of these clubs.They haven't improved significantly at Jubilee.I have a reasonable idea of the basis of the joint ventures ,so don't need educating .

And the $13m grant will enable expansion clubs to survive, keep up to speed.TV revenue is the mainstay of the code.
Reda the latest info on the NRL plans, they see 18 teams as a goer.Brisbane certainly.The question is hypothetically why if the new Brisbane side hits Broncos crowds dramatically, I hope they don't.

Your comment about dropping the Sydney club numbers down to 6 or 7 proves one thing, you are really out of the loop and living far far away .Have you heard of competition from other sports, have you heard of tribalism, and you have ignored what transpired post SL.More holes in your argument, than an army firing range.
 
Last edited:

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
So you want Brisbane to be limited to just 2 clubs so that Sydney can have 9, despite Sydney having 2 people for every person from Brisbane?

The maths doesn't add up.

Having 4.5 times as many clubs in Sydney than Brisbane, despite there being just 2 people in Sydney for evey person in Brisbane, is just plain dumb. It would make far more sense to have 3 in Brisbane and 6 or 7 in Sydney. That way both areas are saturated with RL and will have plenty of local derbies to generate interest. It's about what's best for RL as a whole, not what's best for a few thousand RL fans in Sydney.


Presuming once again.I have not stated or laid down any specific numbers of Brisbane clubs.But I will state this .In a population of 2.5m ,and only one club Broncos, they can't pack out their stadium, and get memberships little more than double these nasty Sydney clubs.You'd think with one team,theyget 40k plus week in week outline heartland city, playing not weekly but fortnightly.
The NRL is going to expand into Brisbane and wants an 18th team down the line.Stated today.

There is no reason they could not make it 3, but I suggest the new franchise/s there better get decent crowds and anything less than 20k minimum,would not be a good look in a city of 2.5m.
And the GC can't get more than half in their new stadium, with a population of 600K.And I like the GC setup.

From where I sit you are right the Broncos need to get off their a*se in a city they dominate and pack their stadiums, because ATM the numbers do not stack up.Newcastle could teach Broncos a thing about tribalism and crowds per population base..

Further the NRL has stated having a 2nd Brisbane side is worth $50m,beauty.

With 6-7 clubs in Sydney, you will end up with an even smaller junior league, crowds will not have improved dramatically, and I dare say TV ratings in Sydney may well be affected.Oh and there may well end up a 3rd AFL club in the South.
So reducing the opportunity for local players to play for their current clubs in Sydney ,is a good thing?Rememebr teh NRLd onto have a draft.
We live in country of 25m people,not 330m like the States ,where clubs and teams move to various cities,Crowds are not effected ,juniors tend to play soccer like here.
So when a city here loses a club it hits ,when a club moves in the States,it still packs out stadiums.
When other clubs get off their backsides and build assets and own grounds in the NRL,they can dictate if they wish, where clubs should go.
ATM all clubs now and in the future wherever they exist, rely on the NRL $13m teat they are given.

You make claims and assumptions ,yet haven't provided factual supporting evidence the effects of relocating a club
from Sydney to another location ,when a club is viable.Anyone can sit back with the 9 club 6 club pins on maps ,
that doesn't pay the bills or assure crowds and members, nor provide certainty on Tv ratings, nor additional monetary outlays for a new club.And you do this whilst ignoring the Bears and the joint ventures moving 6 games here,6 games there's not ideal for their fans.Stand alone club have at least home certainty.

Yet the governing body who runs the show,has people at the coal face ,via junior comps, businesses in various states
who have shown interest, know the impact of joint ventures and flick a club ,provides the revenue at least has more than an idea, what is likely to provide the money they want, the support they want and the TV ratings they want.That's why they are not keen on relocation, because they have a better idea than you or me, as to the effect on fans, keeping an eye on competitors after the sponsorship dollar and expansive views.they understand Sydney tribalism.They have their faults, but they sure as hell have a decent idea of the Sydney market particularly post SL.

I have a choice between the NRL's experience and knowledge, as opposed to your views from outside Sydney.It's not hard to figure which is the most reliable source.
 
Last edited:
Messages
14,822
Look arguing back and forth with you is a time waster.The point is the club is doing something about growing it's brand, and I repeat one more time the crowds and memberships on. per population basis are far greater than Brisbane.
That is a lot of BS.When the Dragons and Sharks play in the local derby weather permitting they get big crowds .Remove local derbies you remove just one of the unique aspects.

I don't tell blatant lies champ.Tv ratings go up and down ,and if you have half a clue check TV ratings involving the Sharks on Fox over the years.You know Fox who pay a much bigger slice of the Tv revenue.
Crowds and Tv ratings are affected by performances.

On the contrary and your assumption, if clubs are relocated to Perth, the tv ratings will jump dramatically,thej crowds will be huge, the deal will be worth large sums to the NRL,whereas supposedly a new Brisbane club will be worth $50m.So show us the empirical evidence where relocation will be the be all and end all.Not just your innermost thoughts.

"You fail to see", that sums it up, you indeed fail to see.I've spelt out quite clearly, but you ignore my posts where I stated the very reasons why the Sharks should not be relocated, unless they are financial poo.
I've spelt out monotonously where flicking the Bears and joint ventures have not been the big lift in terms of junior numbers and huge crowd increases that you might suggest.
Yep junior numbers are down in Sydney, and by your brilliant assumption, relocating or removing clubs is going to help that situation, sheesh.And Cronulla is one of the stronger clubs when it comes to juniors.
It's not a case of the Shire might be growing ,it is.

That information of yours is not hard evidence,The digs have not been performing well for a while.The Dogs have their home base and removing them from their home base is not going to boost the Tigers numbers the way you think.Removing the Bears did nothing to boost Tigers crowds nor Easts.

Well mate there is probably just as much chance of the Sharks snaring some of that population increase ,with their return to Sharks park and its upgraded facilities, as there is the Broncos packing their stadium every week ,with 2.5m they should be doing.I would further suggest whilst some may not be interested in teh NRL,they may well attend teh Licnens=ce club, to boost revenue.
You understand the Tigers were in deep financial poo as their :Licensed club development fell through and Illawarra were in financial trouble.These joint ventures were more a matter of survivability for each of these clubs.They haven't improved significantly at Jubilee.I have a reasonable idea of the basis of the joint ventures ,so don't need educating .

And the $13m grant will enable expansion clubs to survive, keep up to speed.TV revenue is the mainstay of the code.
Reda the latest info on the NRL plans, they see 18 teams as a goer.Brisbane certainly.The question is hypothetically why if the new Brisbane side hits Broncos crowds dramatically, I hope they don't.

Your comment about dropping the Sydney club numbers down to 6 or 7 proves one thing, you are really out of the loop and living far far away .Have you heard of competition from other sports, have you heard of tribalism, and you have ignored what transpired post SL.More holes in your argument, than an army firing range.
Reading this was like listening to one of Gerry Connolly's impersonations of Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen. It's all over the place.

I don't see much evidence that crowds were better before the mergers.
Balmain and Wests averaged 10,576 and 7,301 in 98. In their final season they averaged just 9,710 and 8,224. Wests Tigers averaged 12,124 in their debut season, which was the worst of the 14 clubs but almost 5,000 higher than what the Magpies drew in 98. Souths drew 6085 that year.

In their final season as separate entities, St George and Illawarra averaged 10,394 and 9,248. The amalgamated club averaged 13,259 in their first season. The next season they drew 14,930.

North Sydney averaged just 8,566 in their final season, whereas Manly pulled 17,960.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1998.html

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1999.html

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/2000.html

Manly has gone backwards since 1999 and St George Illawarra are where the Dragons and Steelers were before the merger. In 2019 the Dragons averaged just 9,813. Cronulla 12,224. Manly 13,777 over their 12 games, but only 10 were played at Brookvale and they only drew 11,216. Wests and Canterbury actually did well, pulling 15,867 and 15,274.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/2019.html

Going on that I would say keep the Tigers and Bulldogs where they are. Send Sharks and Dragons to Perth and Adelaide. Dragons couldn't do any worse in Adelaide. Rabbitohs can take over Southern Sydney and become a super club, based out of SFS. Manly to NZ.
 
Last edited:

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Reading this was like listening to one of Gerry Connolly's impersonations of Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen. It's all over the place.

I don't see much evidence that crowds were better before the mergers.
Balmain and Wests averaged 10,576 and 7,301 in 98. In their final season they averaged just 9,710 and 8,224. Wests Tigers averaged 12,124 in their debut season, which was the worst of the 14 clubs but almost 5,000 higher than what the Magpies drew in 98. Souths drew 6085 that year.

In their final season as separate entities, St George and Illawarra averaged 10,394 and 9,248. The amalgamated club averaged 13,259 in their first season. The next season they drew 14,930.

North Sydney averaged just 8,566 in their final season, whereas Manly pulled 17,960.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1998.html

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1999.html

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/2000.html

Manly has gone backwards since 1999 and St George Illawarra are where the Dragons and Steelers were before the merger. In 2019 the Dragons averaged just 9,813. Cronulla 12,224. Manly 13,777 over their 12 games, but only 10 were played at Brookvale and they only drew 11,216. Wests and Canterbury actually did well, pulling 15,867 and 15,274.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/2019.html

Going on that I would say keep the Tigers and Bulldogs where they are. Send Sharks and Dragons to Perth and Adelaide. Dragons couldn't do any worse in Adelaide. Rabbitohs can take over Southern Sydney and become a super club, based out of SFS. Manly to NZ.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself,I will point out facts and take whatever you want from them:
1) SL peace deal with removal of a two clubs(one for a shorter period) achieved SFA.The Bears left a vacuum,their fans disappeared into the nether.Souths fans when theywere flicked ,did not support other clubs ,else averages would have increased fairly dramatically.
2)Joint ventures have led to split venues,which means many fans don;t take up a full season option membership.
3)Effect of SL war rumblings and the war
Perth averaged in 1995 at home 13,390
1996 when court cases on 8,262
1997 when 2 comps were on. 8,776
When they were flicked junior numbers took a hammering.And the first year for any club is a novelty for bandwaggobners.


4)Comparisons Cronulla v Broncos memberships on a population basis.Left out 2019 COVID and 2020 non home venue for Sharks.
2018 Sharks 15,725. Broncos 36,420
2019 Sharks 15,826. Broncos 34,793
Populations
2018 Shire 229k. Brisbane Metro 2.33m
2019 Shire 230k. Brisbane metro 2.37m
Sharks population expected to grow to 266k by 2036,but looks like doing that a lot earlier.
So for 1/10 the population Sharks had just under half Broncos memberships.Which club is more tribal on that basis?
Going on that based on your theories, perhaps Brisbane can only sustain 1 team.And instead of B2 it should go to Perth.And your'e talking about bigger numbers,LOL.

5) Grand finals crowds from 2010 -2019.Of this 10 the Sharks v Melbourne drew the 2nd biggest crowds of 83,625 in 2016 with at least 60-65K Sharks' fans in attendance .Only bettered by the Souths v Dog G/F on 2014 83,833.
In the Preliminary final at the SFS against the Nth Qld Cowboys,the game drew 36,717with only a handful of Cowboys supporters.

6) As far as Fox(our main revenue source) is concerned ,here is an example for 2019 of the top 5 raters :
Rd 17 Melbourne v Cronulla was the highest rating NRL game with 257K
South Sydney v Brisbane next rd 21
Melbourne v Brisbane next Rd 1
Melbourne v Parramatta next Rd 9
Brisbane v Cronulla Rd 7
So in the top 5 of that year Sharks appears in 2.Nah they draw SFA.

The more I read your comments and recommendations on Sydney, the more I see an armchair general
who hasn't faced combat, yet tells his troops to advance up hill without air cover.
Familiarise yourself with the surroundings(know the area) and the people who reside there.You fail to understand the impact of clubs being lost or basically cut in two, nor the insatiable appetite of your main competitor.
We can all sit back and say so and so should go here and there,but we don't have the studies on teh impact, other than what we see in Sydney on those clubs impacted and indeed what happened with a club like Perth.
 
Last edited:

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
People seem to think Sydney clubs just amount to the crowd in the ground, they are way bigger than that.

I recently read about the North Sydney board change and there was a quote they have 200k supporters, even after being out of the big league since 1999. It would have been alot more in the mid 90s. Whilst Cronulla is one of the smaller of the Sydney clubs so are Penrith.

An iconic club like Balmain should never have been lost to the game, I know at the time they were struggling financially but things change as Souths and Wests have shown.

Would Balmain not have been able to survive today with a $13 million grant, sponsorship, they had Harry Triguboff behind them, better management and bigger games played at ANZ and the SL War far off in the distance.

I think they could.
 
Last edited:

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,808
People seem to think Sydney clubs just amount to the crowd in the ground, they are way bigger then that.

I recently read about the North Sydney board change and there was a quote they have 200k supporters, even after being out of the big league since 1999. It would have been alot more in the mid 90s. Whilst Cronulla is one of the smaller of the Sydney clubs so are Penrith.

An iconic club like Balmain should never have been lost to the game, I know at the time they were struggling financially but things change as Souths and Wests have shown.

Would Balmain not have been able to survive today with a $13 million grant, sponsorship, they had Harry Triguboff behind them, better management and bigger games played at ANZ and the SL War far off in the distance.

I think they could.

Doesn't mean much though... The Broncos official facebook page has 650k followers which is actually way more than any AFL club has. Collingwood only has 360k. Shows how much better AFL is at turning "supporters" into engaged fans.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
Doesn't mean much though... The Broncos official facebook page has 650k followers which is actually way more than any AFL club has. Collingwood only has 360k. Shows how much better AFL is at turning "supporters" into engaged fans.

Exactly, most AFL supporters are passionate about their club. I heard on the radio today Collingwood give $6 million to help the poorer clubs.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Problem for clubs like the sharks is they don’t have the fanbase or corporate support to be sustainable long term. Sharks keep operationally losing millions a year and only selling their assets has saved them, but it hasn’t yet turned around their financial performance. Other small fanbase clubs like Penrith wouldnt survive if they had to live on football operations if it wasnt for pokie income. We need big clubs for the future of the game and to stave of afl taking over an undisputed number one footy code position. These suburban teams are never going to be big clubs.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Exactly, most AFL supporters are passionate about their club. I heard on the radio today Collingwood give $6 million to help the poorer clubs.
The big AFL clubs don't subsidise the smaller ones by choice. The AFL have a ticket tax and other programs that they use to funnel money and resources from the larger clubs to others that the AFL decides needs the subsidies.

Also who cares about "fans" that aren't putting anything back into the club.

How many fans a club has is totally meaningless to the sustainability of the club as a business, all that matters when it comes to the sustainability of the club as a business is how many customers they have.

Going by the fact that some of the Sydney clubs have been around for over 100 years at this point and still fail to convert a significant portion of their supposed fan-base into customers suggest that they are probably incapable of doing it.
 
Last edited:
Messages
14,822
I'm not going to keep repeating myself,I will point out facts and take whatever you want from them:
1) SL peace deal with removal of a two clubs(one for a shorter period) achieved SFA.The Bears left a vacuum,their fans disappeared into the nether.Souths fans when theywere flicked ,did not support other clubs ,else averages would have increased fairly dramatically.
2)Joint ventures have led to split venues,which means many fans don;t take up a full season option membership.
3)Effect of SL war rumblings and the war
Perth averaged in 1995 at home 13,390
1996 when court cases on 8,262
1997 when 2 comps were on. 8,776
When they were flicked junior numbers took a hammering.And the first year for any club is a novelty for bandwaggobners.


4)Comparisons Cronulla v Broncos memberships on a population basis.Left out 2019 COVID and 2020 non home venue for Sharks.
2018 Sharks 15,725. Broncos 36,420
2019 Sharks 15,826. Broncos 34,793
Populations
2018 Shire 229k. Brisbane Metro 2.33m
2019 Shire 230k. Brisbane metro 2.37m
Sharks population expected to grow to 266k by 2036,but looks like doing that a lot earlier.
So for 1/10 the population Sharks had just under half Broncos memberships.Which club is more tribal on that basis?
Going on that based on your theories, perhaps Brisbane can only sustain 1 team.And instead of B2 it should go to Perth.And your'e talking about bigger numbers,LOL.

5) Grand finals crowds from 2010 -2019.Of this 10 the Sharks v Melbourne drew the 2nd biggest crowds of 83,625 in 2016 with at least 60-65K Sharks' fans in attendance .Only bettered by the Souths v Dog G/F on 2014 83,833.
In the Preliminary final at the SFS against the Nth Qld Cowboys,the game drew 36,717with only a handful of Cowboys supporters.

6) As far as Fox(our main revenue source) is concerned ,here is an example for 2019 of the top 5 raters :
Rd 17 Melbourne v Cronulla was the highest rating NRL game with 257K
South Sydney v Brisbane next rd 21
Melbourne v Brisbane next Rd 1
Melbourne v Parramatta next Rd 9
Brisbane v Cronulla Rd 7
So in the top 5 of that year Sharks appears in 2.Nah they draw SFA.

The more I read your comments and recommendations on Sydney, the more I see an armchair general
who hasn't faced combat, yet tells his troops to advance up hill without air cover.
Familiarise yourself with the surroundings(know the area) and the people who reside there.You fail to understand the impact of clubs being lost or basically cut in two, nor the insatiable appetite of your main competitor.
We can all sit back and say so and so should go here and there,but we don't have the studies on teh impact, other than what we see in Sydney on those clubs impacted and indeed what happened with a club like Perth.
Brisbane's RL community is divided. People either love the Broncos or hate their guts for a myriad of reasons. It doesn't change the fact they're the largest and richest rugby league/union club in the world, and by some margin. Their attendances are double that of the rest of the competition, despite playing on a Thurs/Fri night in a stadium that is surrounded with heavy traffic. Brisbane's traffic is the worst in the country. They're not doing too bad when you factor in how many of their fans are unable to attend Lang Park due to work, school and travel.

An average of 56k people attended ARL games in Brisbane to watch the Broncos and Crushers in 1995.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1995.html

The average attendance in 2000 was higher than in 1999.

A team in Logan would get bigger crowds than the Sharks and have more locals in its squad. Logan has 326k people and its population is set to boom by 2050, with new estates in the south expected to add another 100k people. The northern suburbs are being developed into high population density zones, so expect more high rises. Its the Parramatta of Brisbane, with a larger population.
 
Last edited:

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,008
Problem for clubs like the sharks is they don’t have the fanbase or corporate support to be sustainable long term. Sharks keep operationally losing millions a year and only selling their assets has saved them, but it hasn’t yet turned around their financial performance. Other small fanbase clubs like Penrith wouldnt survive if they had to live on football operations if it wasnt for pokie income. We need big clubs for the future of the game and to stave of afl taking over an undisputed number one footy code position. These suburban teams are never going to be big clubs.
But owning 4-5 leagues clubs isn't sustainable, please stop dribbling garbage, teams like roosters who are backed by nick Politis or manly with the penns are the ones you wanna worry about, reliance on bailing the club out via one wealthy backer isnt sustainable, once they get indited, suied or deceased, the club won't be able to get by without them
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,008
Brisbane's RL community is divided. People either love the Broncos or hate their guts for a myriad of reasons. It doesn't change the fact they're the largest and richest rugby league/union club in the world, and by some margin. Their attendances are double that of the rest of the competition, despite playing on a Thurs/Fri night in a stadium that is surrounded with heavy traffic. Brisbane's traffic is the worst in the country. They're not doing too bad when you factor in how many of their fans are unable to attend Lang Park due to work, school and travel.

An average of 56k people attended ARL games in Brisbane to watch the Broncos and Crushers in 1995.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1995.html

The average attendance in 2000 was higher than in 1999.

A team in Logan would get bigger crowds than the Sharks and have more locals in its squad. Logan has 326k people and its population is set to boom by 2050, with new estates in the south expected to add another 100k people. The northern suburbs are being developed into high population density zones, so expect more high rises. Its the Parramatta of Brisbane, with a larger population.
Two heads still count as one person, besides Logan doesn't have an NRL, QRL or any Licence and couldn't even hold a BRL licence, so why bother comparing them to the Sharks.
Either way your knowledge is best kept regarding removal of clubs and relocations to Adelaide and Perth, so just keep on doing that, but as far as sydney, you seem to know jack Shíť.
im sure the forum will keep getting sick of it, just like ol'Stallion and his bring the bears back, which btw IS the topic here right, Bears?, CC?

personally i reckon WA and Bears should come together, Red & Black were the main colors in '97, could end up the NRLs version of the Swans, but in WA
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,595
personally i reckon WA and Bears should come together, Red & Black were the main colors in '97, could end up the NRLs version of the Swans, but in WA
Not a bad thought, provides Perth with juniors. Home games in Perth, Sydney membership for away games.
 
Messages
14,822
Two heads still count as one person, besides Logan doesn't have an NRL, QRL or any Licence and couldn't even hold a BRL licence, so why bother comparing them to the Sharks.
Either way your knowledge is best kept regarding removal of clubs and relocations to Adelaide and Perth, so just keep on doing that, but as far as sydney, you seem to know jack Shíť.
im sure the forum will keep getting sick of it, just like ol'Stallion and his bring the bears back, which btw IS the topic here right, Bears?, CC?

personally i reckon WA and Bears should come together, Red & Black were the main colors in '97, could end up the NRLs version of the Swans, but in WA
QRL met with Logan City Council last year with plans on leasing fields at Heritage Park for a Queensland Cup team.

The two heads insult refers to people who are inbred. People used it against Tasmanians when it was reported that up to 50% of them have procreated with first cousins. That sort or thing doesn't happen in Queensland, but there is a case of extreme inbreeding within a family in NSW.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ons-of-inbreeding-found-at-filthy-Sydney-camp

Bears aren't coming back. They're history.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Not a bad thought, provides Perth with juniors. Home games in Perth, Sydney membership for away games.
Partnering with an affiliated state (or a league in NZ or the PI's I guess) is realistically the best chance that the Bears have to get back into the competition.

The problem is that they aren't actually in such a great financial position to support an NRL side, and it's at best arguable what value their brand has outside of NSW and to a lesser extent Qld.

Also the focus they'd put on Sydney instead of their new home would be concerning to say the least.

So considering that they don't really bring financial clout, and their brand isn't all that valuable outside of NSW and Qld, what would be in it for the bids from the affiliated states to merge with them?

If we are honest with ourselves the answer is not a lot.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Brisbane's RL community is divided. People either love the Broncos or hate their guts for a myriad of reasons. It doesn't change the fact they're the largest and richest rugby league/union club in the world, and by some margin. Their attendances are double that of the rest of the competition, despite playing on a Thurs/Fri night in a stadium that is surrounded with heavy traffic. Brisbane's traffic is the worst in the country. They're not doing too bad when you factor in how many of their fans are unable to attend Lang Park due to work, school and travel.

An average of 56k people attended ARL games in Brisbane to watch the Broncos and Crushers in 1995.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1995.html

The average attendance in 2000 was higher than in 1999.

A team in Logan would get bigger crowds than the Sharks and have more locals in its squad. Logan has 326k people and its population is set to boom by 2050, with new estates in the south expected to add another 100k people. The northern suburbs are being developed into high population density zones, so expect more high rises. Its the Parramatta of Brisbane, with a larger population.


Whether they (Brisbane)are divided or not, and Sydney community is divided on loyalty, the fact remains 2.32m in a city, cannot fill a stadium or at least 32/43 on a regular basis ,says something.
You are comparing Brisbane traffic with Sydney.I suggest try working in Sydney city ,leaving work at 5pm, drive home for 1 hour, pick up family and try t get to Penrith/Parramatta/Manly on a Friday night before game time.
Sydney cannot keep pace with its auto growth, even allowing for new Motorways.

I was for the Crushers ,but remember 1995 was the first year of expanding, and 3 of the 4 new teams went to SL.
The Broncos used to dominate Brisbane big time, they have a decent fan base but do not dominate the airwaves or media like they did.And they were a clusterf*ck last year and so far this year "ain't" looking good.
2021 is not 1995.and a lot of crap has happened since.

A team in Logan would not have the small business backing that the Sharks have, and in fact eat into the already shaky fan base of the Broncos.Maybe even take away from the Titans.
They haven't applied for the 2nd Brisbane licence, which says something.The other Brisbane bids are far more advanced.

The Sharks have two licensed clubs and own their own ground, with retail and residential right next door.A captive audience or retail situation.Sydney has far more major businesses both big and small from which to aim for sponsors.The Sharks are fully sponsored ,including their own Stadium.Have money in the Bank.

I have no problem with more Brisbane teams I have always wanted the game to expand, provided they are sustainable.I do have a problem with people who want to flick sustainable ,traditional ,tribal Sydney clubs just for the purpose of getting a Brisbane team or elsewhere, which have not yet shown sustainability nor tribalism.Without it being fully researched, costed and not just the whims of people who appear not to understand the Sydney market.


Even Wayne Bennett (Brisbane bred )has come out yesterday stating he wants a 9 team conference in Sydney,to utilise the tribalism and local derbies that bring the crowds.
He understands the Dragons V Sharks rivalry and what it brings. Outsiders apparently do not.

Anyway I've run out of ink now,I need to get into training to help defend Taiwan.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,808
The CC Bears best chance is if another club suddenly folds and they need to quickly enter a new team to meet contract obligations.
 

Latest posts

Top