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Central Coast Bears NRL Bid.

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,548
And anyone that thinks Dolphins playing at Suncorp would be any better only needs to imagine what Manly’s numbers at ANZ would be like.

To some degree I agree but this would be a new club and theoretically starting up a mostly new fanbase in Brisbane. Its not like any of the bids are going to rely on their existing couple of thousand fans solely.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,863
Its hardly a one off though is it? Couple of years ago your season avg at Brookvale was only 8.6K. You've only had one season since SL where you've been able to crack the NRls avg of 15k.
Anyone who thinks Dolphins playing in Redcliffe is a good idea needs to take a look at Brookvale crowd avg's!!
No, it’s not a one off. We suffered the Trent Barrett effect that the Bulldogs are going through now and our crowds will likely continue to be poor while construction continues on the northern end. It’s made game day a clusterf**k, there are fewer entry points now, which pushes people into uncomfortable choke points to get in and the club hasn’t helped themselves by not communicating the seating arrangements post northern hill-closure effectively.
 
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14,822
No, it’s not a one off. We suffered the Trent Barrett effect that the Bulldogs are going through now and our crowds will likely continue to be poor while construction continues on the northern end. It’s made game day a clusterf**k, there are fewer entry points now, which pushes people into uncomfortable choke points to get in and the club hasn’t helped themselves by not communicating the seating arrangements post northern hill-closure effectively.
Even when they were dominant on the field and winning premierships, their crowds were average at best. The last time they averaged more than 15k was when they won the premiership in 2011.

Geoff Toovey was coach for a number of seasons and they were still strong on field.

Their numbers are even worse when you substract the "home game" they play against Broncos at Lang Park.

https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/manly.html

5AD41F18-6385-4188-968B-F1577F089C1F.png

https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/brookvale_vn.html

Would they draw more support as the Central Coast Sea Eagles, based permanently at Central Coast Stadium?
 
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reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,863
Even when they were dominant on the field and winning premierships, their crowds were average at best. The last time they averaged more than 15k was when they won the premiership in 2011.

Geoff Toovey was coach for a number of seasons and they were still strong on field.
The state of Brookvale holds our crowd numbers back, that much is obvious. The work being done on the ground now may help things somewhat, it'll likely be a bandaid until a further commitment is made by the NSW and federal governments (and the council) to do more work there though. There's no good venue for sports and events in Northern Sydney, if done properly, an upgraded Brookvale could provide a lot of utility for those north of the bridge. Far better would be a brand new all-seater Bankwest type stadium at somewhere like Chatswood, but that's extremely unlikely to happen. Practically all the electorates in northern Sydney are ultra-safe Liberal seats and they don't feel the need to spend any more on infrastructure there than they absolutely have to.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,548
The state of Brookvale holds our crowd numbers back, that much is obvious. The work being done on the ground now may help things somewhat, it'll likely be a bandaid until a further commitment is made by the NSW and federal governments (and the council) to do more work there though. There's no good venue for sports and events in Northern Sydney, if done properly, an upgraded Brookvale could provide a lot of utility for those north of the bridge. Far better would be a brand new all-seater Bankwest type stadium at somewhere like Chatswood, but that's extremely unlikely to happen. Practically all the electorates in northern Sydney are ultra-safe Liberal seats and they don't feel the need to spend any more on infrastructure there than they absolutely have to.

The state of the ground is certainly one factor but does the realistic area you are drawing a fanbase from have a big enough population to sustain a decent crowd attendance? We should be aiming for 20k plus in good times and 15k in crap times, especially in the games heartland. Not 15k and 10k.

End of day if there are only X amount of people who associate themselves with the manly area then it will take some serious work to increase the % of those X amount willing to attend NRL, or you need to increase the X amount in some way.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,863
The state of the ground is certainly one factor but does the realistic area you are drawing a fanbase from have a big enough population to sustain a decent crowd attendance? We should be aiming for 20k plus in good times and 15k in crap times, especially in the games heartland. Not 15k and 10k.

End of day if there are only X amount of people who associate themselves with the manly area then it will take some serious work to increase the % of those X amount willing to attend NRL, or you need to increase the X amount in some way.
We’re one of the only teams in Sydney with an area within Sydney we can grow into, that being the North Shore. The Northern Beaches + North Shore is a fit-for-future catchment. Obviously there’s a lot of work that needs to get done to build the Sea Eagles brand there, but we’re in a far better position than, for example, the Sharks, who are bottlenecked by St George on both sides.
 
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14,822
The state of Brookvale holds our crowd numbers back, that much is obvious. The work being done on the ground now may help things somewhat, it'll likely be a bandaid until a further commitment is made by the NSW and federal governments (and the council) to do more work there though. There's no good venue for sports and events in Northern Sydney, if done properly, an upgraded Brookvale could provide a lot of utility for those north of the bridge. Far better would be a brand new all-seater Bankwest type stadium at somewhere like Chatswood, but that's extremely unlikely to happen. Practically all the electorates in northern Sydney are ultra-safe Liberal seats and they don't feel the need to spend any more on infrastructure there than they absolutely have to.
A new stadium would be great, but it's not happening, which means the Sea Eagles are going to continue drawing similar figures to what they're getting now, which is unviable. Things are only going to get tougher for businesses in Australia over the next 20 years.

It might be unpopular, but maybe the ARLC should forget about having an NRL club based on the North Shore/Northern Beaches, and look at servicing these areas with teams in the NSW Cup and down. With the right marketing they might be able to get 5k-10k young people from the North Shore and Northern Beaches to become Roosters fans over the next 10 or 20 years, which would make that team stronger and more valuable. The key is building links between the Roosters and school children from North Shore and Northern Beaches.

We’re one of the only teams in Sydney with an area within Sydney we can grow into, that being the North Shore. The Northern Beaches + North Shore is a fit-for-future catchment. Obviously there’s a lot of work that needs to get done to build the Sea Eagles brand there, but we’re in a far better position than, for example, the Sharks, who are bottlenecked by St George on both sides.
This is true, but it's dependent on a rebrand so that North Shore and Northern Beaches are represented. North Shore will be more likely to get on board if the team is Northern Sydney Sea Eagles or North Sydney Sea Eagles.
 

Perth Red

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69,548
We’re one of the only teams in Sydney with an area within Sydney we can grow into, that being the North Shore. The Northern Beaches + North Shore is a fit-for-future catchment. Obviously there’s a lot of work that needs to get done to build the Sea Eagles brand there, but we’re in a far better position than, for example, the Sharks, who are bottlenecked by St George on both sides.

Totally agree. Maybe when Manly finally get new owners they might drive that to build the reach of the club? Seems they are a bit stuck in their ways with the current old administration.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,863
A new stadium would be great, but it's not happening, which means the Sea Eagles are going to continue drawing similar figures to what they're getting now, which is unviable. Things are only going to get tougher for businesses in Australia over the next 20 years.

It might be unpopular, but maybe the ARLC should forget about having an NRL club based on the North Shore/Northern Beaches, and look at servicing these areas with teams in the NSW Cup and down. With the right marketing they might be able to get 5k-10k young people from the North Shore and Northern Beaches to become Roosters fans over the next 10 or 20 years, which would make that team stronger and more valuable. The key is building links between the Roosters and school children from North Shore and Northern Beaches.
It'd be incredibly dumb (but so very NRL) to forget about the North Shore and Northern Beaches while keeping the logjam of teams between the Eastern Suburbs to Parramatta. The people of the North Shore and Beaches are your ideal customers, I'm generalising here, but the demographics of the two regions tend to be wealthy, highly educated and a lot work in influential positions or fields. More work should be done on getting as many people involved in the game from those regions as possible, not giving up on them and half-heartedly offering them the Roosters.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,548
It'd be incredibly dumb (but so very NRL) to forget about the North Shore and Northern Beaches while keeping the logjam of teams between the Eastern Suburbs to Parramatta. The people of the North Shore and Beaches are your ideal customers, I'm generalising here, but the demographics of the two regions tend to be wealthy, highly educated and a lot work in influential positions or fields. More work should be done on getting as many people involved in the game from those regions as possible, not giving up on them and half-heartedly offering them the Roosters.

I think the idea of splitting the Northern region lower for roosters to take over and upper and Gosford for Manly to focus on makes most sense unless we could get a decent centralised stadium and a Manly rebrand. Maybe Chatswoood being the boundary?
8 games at Brooky, 3 at Gosford and 1 on road might help boost their fanbase, though it would take a long term commitment and NRL should be helping Manly and Roosters to do it well.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,863
Totally agree. Maybe when Manly finally get new owners they might drive that to build the reach of the club? Seems they are a bit stuck in their ways with the current old administration.
Very. I don't know what the Penns are doing, they rarely make their plans or vision for the future of the club known. There's apparently multiple groups waiting to buy the club if they offer it for sale, but they don't want to sell it.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
To some degree I agree but this would be a new club and theoretically starting up a mostly new fanbase in Brisbane. Its not like any of the bids are going to rely on their existing couple of thousand fans solely.
Everybody says that, but unfortunately that’s not how it works in reality.

It took decades for the Raiders to shed the “Queanbeyan Raiders” attitudes, even then it still comes up from time to time. Port Adelaide are going through an identity crisis right now and despite their claims to the contrary, and the focus in the media being on Collingwood’s reaction, it’s alienating a lot of people whom are “Power fans” but not “Magpies fans”.

If those clubs have had all these issues, and still have them decades later, and they didn’t even try to keep their old brands, then just imagine what’s going to happen at the “Brisbane” Dolphins.

I mean I could tell you for a fact what will happen (exactly what happened to the “Canberra” Vikings), but nobody wants to hear it.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,042
Even when they were dominant on the field and winning premierships, their crowds were average at best. The last time they averaged more than 15k was when they won the premiership in 2011.

Geoff Toovey was coach for a number of seasons and they were still strong on field.

Their numbers are even worse when you substract the "home game" they play against Broncos at Lang Park.

https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/manly.html

View attachment 48366

https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/brookvale_vn.html

Would they draw more support as the Central Coast Sea Eagles, based permanently at Central Coast Stadium?
What happened to North Sydney Sea Eagles Rainman? FML flip flop at his best
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,042
I think the idea of splitting the Northern region lower for roosters to take over and upper and Gosford for Manly to focus on makes most sense unless we could get a decent centralised stadium and a Manly rebrand. Maybe Chatswoood being the boundary?
8 games at Brooky, 3 at Gosford and 1 on road might help boost their fanbase, though it would take a long term commitment and NRL should be helping Manly and Roosters to do it well.
We went over this 10 or so pages ago, the roseville road area or linfield suburb area would be where it splits/boarders, effectively giving Chatswood and the north shore to the roosters to look after, and anything north of that to manly, as that road leads directy east to the northern beaches.
Also we had floated a 6 home split of central coast and 6 games for brooky
 
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14,822
You throw shít everywhere, ideas aren't your strong suit, flip flopping and transferance of licences is your strength, expansion definitely isn't on your agenda
There's only 2 spots available for expansion and more than 2 areas that need a licence, plus an oversaturated city that has nine teams that are struggling for survival, with a divide growing between its strongest and weakest.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,042
There's only 2 spots available for expansion and more than 2 areas that need a licence, plus an oversaturated city that has nine teams that are struggling for survival, with a divide growing between its strongest and weakest.
All Büllshit, you've set up only 18 possible licences, when infinity is possible, you're dumb metrics have retrained your thinking to only being able to afford only 18 clubs, theres no time frame here, thus culling everything that gets presented by the media as a failure of some sorts, read the news, but don't believe it doesn't come with an agenda. Perth might not come for another decade, and another qld team after that, your assuming we get rid of 4 teams to branch into new areas who might be any better than where we are already, why not do both?
 

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