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Charity Shield 2019

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
We need to buy a winger because Masters & Saab are no good????
Oh that’s right still a bit young for 1st grade even though they haven’t played it yet and all the while other clubs picking plenty of young players including teenagers.
FMD we are a train wreck of a club including some of the ideology sprouted in here.
If we needed a top class winger why did we extend Pereira and buy Pearson? Ravalawa would have been sufficient with what we had plus a proven player.
Now we have 1x bog ordinary plus 2 newbies, 2 crack juniors who would get blooded and probably selected at other clubs and all the while trying to make a centre a winger despite the actual centres being a weak link with 1 being absolutely hopeless.
No worries Millward right on top of it 5 wingers plus maybe Dufty or Field (not mine but others thoughts) plus potentially our 2 nd best centre playing wing and we need a f**king winger.
Sensational start to the season
Stop making sense . Age shouldn't be a barrier if they are good enough play them , but we will never know while Blinkers is coaching .....
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
23,923
So where should Mary go from here? I think most forum members have a good idea where he will go from here but what should he do?

Widdop
I'd say Widdop has the capability and skills to perform well at fullback however, he is coming off a shoulder injury and to me it looks like he is hesitant right now. Give him a few weeks and then review the situation.

Dufty
There is no doubt Dufty has X factor and has now been signed for another two years. It would be a real shame if there was not a concrete plan put in place to improve his game. Our real problem is not Dufty it is the make up of our squad compared to the game plan Mary wants to employ.

Outside Backs
Under Mary's plan the back three and centres for that matter need to bring the ball back out of our red zone. It is clear that neither Dufty or Widdop can do this from the back. The same applies when it comes to our wingers (we still need to take a look at Pearson) and our centres, Lomax made very little ground and Lafai seldom takes the ball in his red zone. To me this remains the big unanswered question with regards to our backline. Pereira is not the answer as he was rag dolled over the sideline in the same way we are concerned Field and Dufty would be.

Wingers
After watching the Charity Shield game, I'd be inclined to play Dufty and Field on our wings until we have our new wingers ready to take their place in first grade. Yes there is the problem of these two players being too light however, with some smart coaching, this could be a good brandade measure until our wingers are ready. Dufty and Field need to step back inside when taking the ball and when taking the second or third tackle out of our red zone, they both need to stand a little wider to take advantage of an unsettled defensive line. More importantly, both need to be trained how to hit the ground and play the ball quickly. Both Dufty and Field have the X factor, both are reasonable at taking the high ball, both have speed to burn.

Halves
I'd leave the halves as they are and drill them with combinations that bring our outside backs and edge forwards into play.

Forwards
My concerns are with the prop rotation. For me it is time to bring in our young props and blood them in first grade just in case we fade at the mid season mark again this season. With K Sims out for the first 2 rounds, I'd put Frizell at 13, Leilua on the left edge and T Sims on the right edge. Up front I would have Vaughan and either Kerr or Timm as the run on props with Graham and Lourie coming off the bench. Robson and McInnes to be in the hooker rotation.

Bench
I'd carry Robson at 14 on the bench mainly because he can double as hooker and backrow forward in rotation. With the flexibility we already have on the field, I'd have one of our backrow forwards move to centre if a back does down.

Possm: “We are struggling to bring it out of our red zone, we need to make sure our outside backs do grunt work and get us on the front foot”.

Also possm: “Dufty and Field should be our wingers”.
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,233
We need to buy a winger because Masters & Saab are no good????
Oh that’s right still a bit young for 1st grade even though they haven’t played it yet and all the while other clubs picking plenty of young players including teenagers.
FMD we are a train wreck of a club including some of the ideology sprouted in here.
If we needed a top class winger why did we extend Pereira and buy Pearson? Ravalawa would have been sufficient with what we had plus a proven player.
Now we have 1x bog ordinary plus 2 newbies, 2 crack juniors who would get blooded and probably selected at other clubs and all the while trying to make a centre a winger despite the actual centres being a weak link with 1 being absolutely hopeless.
No worries Millward right on top of it 5 wingers plus maybe Dufty or Field (not mine but others thoughts) plus potentially our 2 nd best centre playing wing and we need a f**king winger.
Sensational start to the season

Its not wingers we need, its centers. Imagine what a difference it would make to have at least one player like Joseph Manu, Latrell Mitchell, Esan Marsters, BJ Leilua, Jesse Ramien in the centers.

I'm not writing off Lomax he is still young but he is looking a little underdone physically for first grade week in week out. Part of this may be the team have been flogged at training the last few weeks and they are playing fatigued.
 

blacksafake

First Grade
Messages
9,590
We need to buy a winger because Masters & Saab are no good????
Oh that’s right still a bit young for 1st grade even though they haven’t played it yet and all the while other clubs picking plenty of young players including teenagers.
FMD we are a train wreck of a club including some of the ideology sprouted in here.
If we needed a top class winger why did we extend Pereira and buy Pearson? Ravalawa would have been sufficient with what we had plus a proven player.
Now we have 1x bog ordinary plus 2 newbies, 2 crack juniors who would get blooded and probably selected at other clubs and all the while trying to make a centre a winger despite the actual centres being a weak link with 1 being absolutely hopeless.
No worries Millward right on top of it 5 wingers plus maybe Dufty or Field (not mine but others thoughts) plus potentially our 2 nd best centre playing wing and we need a f**king winger.
Sensational start to the season
Can't say I disagree OT
 

Crush

Coach
Messages
11,243
We need to buy a winger because Masters & Saab are no good????
Oh that’s right still a bit young for 1st grade even though they haven’t played it yet and all the while other clubs picking plenty of young players including teenagers.
FMD we are a train wreck of a club including some of the ideology sprouted in here.
If we needed a top class winger why did we extend Pereira and buy Pearson? Ravalawa would have been sufficient with what we had plus a proven player.
Now we have 1x bog ordinary plus 2 newbies, 2 crack juniors who would get blooded and probably selected at other clubs and all the while trying to make a centre a winger despite the actual centres being a weak link with 1 being absolutely hopeless.
No worries Millward right on top of it 5 wingers plus maybe Dufty or Field (not mine but others thoughts) plus potentially our 2 nd best centre playing wing and we need a f**king winger.
Sensational start to the season
We should be starting with Ravalawa and Saab. Both run the ball back hard. Saab for a tall somewhat skinny kid has great strength and would help get us out of our own end. Ravalawa obviously does that well given his size.
Pearson (whoever he is) should start in ISP and be pushing the NRL guys to perform. Pereria should enjoy a long steady career in reserve grade and only fill in if multiple injuries.
And if Lomax gets selected on the wing we might as well forfeit.
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,233
We should be starting with Ravalawa and Saab. Both run the ball back hard. Saab for a tall somewhat skinny kid has great strength and would help get us out of our own end. Ravalawa obviously does that well given his size.
Pearson (whoever he is) should start in ISP and be pushing the NRL guys to perform. Pereria should enjoy a long steady career in reserve grade and only fill in if multiple injuries.
And if Lomax gets selected on the wing we might as well forfeit.

Saab looks like a real talent but I would be starting with Pearson, he has played first grade and was on the cusp of the first grade team in brisbane. He is older than Saab (about 23) and is fast, strong and aggressive.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,905
We need to buy a winger because Masters & Saab are no good????
Oh that’s right still a bit young for 1st grade even though they haven’t played it yet and all the while other clubs picking plenty of young players including teenagers.
FMD we are a train wreck of a club including some of the ideology sprouted in here.
If we needed a top class winger why did we extend Pereira and buy Pearson? Ravalawa would have been sufficient with what we had plus a proven player.
Now we have 1x bog ordinary plus 2 newbies, 2 crack juniors who would get blooded and probably selected at other clubs and all the while trying to make a centre a winger despite the actual centres being a weak link with 1 being absolutely hopeless.
No worries Millward right on top of it 5 wingers plus maybe Dufty or Field (not mine but others thoughts) plus potentially our 2 nd best centre playing wing and we need a f**king winger.
Sensational start to the season

None of the old boys are accountable for anything they do. Mary, Millward, the CEO and Board members seem to be operating with the luxury of not having to account for their actions or decisions.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,905
Its not wingers we need, its centers. Imagine what a difference it would make to have at least one player like Joseph Manu, Latrell Mitchell, Esan Marsters, BJ Leilua, Jesse Ramien in the centers.

I'm not writing off Lomax he is still young but he is looking a little underdone physically for first grade week in week out. Part of this may be the team have been flogged at training the last few weeks and they are playing fatigued.

Like in the past two Charity Shield games, our players look tired, jaded and overtrained. Let's see how they go in round 1.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,839
Souths have shown a few years in a row how to blood young players especially wingers and get a great result for your effort.
Meanwhile here we are talking about picking Pereira and the somewhat unknown Pearson for game 1 whilst we continue to dick around saying Saab and Masters are "too young" and promoting Ravalawa ahead of them as well and to be honest except for Pearson who is very much a mystery at the moment everyone else me]ntioned would be better than Pereiera.
Pereira all credit to him did ok late last year but he is pedestrian and people are using his somewhat tenacious but limited ability to ruck the ball out of defence as the reason why he should be picked.
Every year we keep looking for the "Seabiscuit" of the RL world or the elusive number 6 batting / bowling allrounder and our insistence on finding these once in a lifetime dreams is very costly to our chances.
When will the penny finally drop that we simply have to pick and stick with these young guys and get then away from the shambolic ISP comp.
If they don't cut it then kiss them off and go and buy a good winger by the way where did B Moz go again?

So are you saying we shouldn't have brought wingers into the club?
 

nontime111

Juniors
Messages
1,623
Ravi and Pearson will go ok, a few games under their belt and with Ravi getting tonnes of BOMBS put up for him at training hell learn to catch
both are big, STRONG and FAST just get em in there, specialist finishers unlike poor Lomax, it was actually sad seeing him score that try when he should be in the CENTRES!
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,796
So are you saying we shouldn't have brought wingers into the club?
What I am saying is we had Saab & Masters and it is time for them to get their shot as some of what we bought is either unproven or ordinary
Some in here suggesting we need a quality winger well if we do we don’t need what we bought and indicates Millward isn’t doing a good job.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,905
What I am saying is we had Saab & Masters and it is time for them to get their shot as some of what we bought is either unproven or ordinary
Some in here suggesting we need a quality winger well if we do we don’t need what we bought and indicates Millward isn’t doing a good job.

Aren't the coaching staff supposed to determine the first grade suitability of players during the off-season and their thoughts confirmed during the trial games?

I would have like to see Saab and Masters play in the Charity Shield game. I will now wait to see how Pearson performs in ISP.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,944
Resized_20190304_142218_9615.jpeg

Happy to leave the in-depth analysis up to others. Personally I think we were too slow out the blocks at kick off and again just after half time plus the defence close to the ruck left a lot to be desired. And yes, some poor reads wider of the ruck, still vulnersble in the centres.

That aside, Mudgee is beautiful part of the world. Add in Rylstone Kandos and the 'ghost town' of Glen Davis.

Quick quiz: What significance is the above photo to Saints' fans?

Extra points for an extended historical in-depth analysis.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,839
What I am saying is we had Saab & Masters and it is time for them to get their shot as some of what we bought is either unproven or ordinary
Some in here suggesting we need a quality winger well if we do we don’t need what we bought and indicates Millward isn’t doing a good job.

So assume they were/are ready, who plays wing in ISP?
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,839
Aren't the coaching staff supposed to determine the first grade suitability of players during the off-season and their thoughts confirmed during the trial games?

I would have like to see Saab and Masters play in the Charity Shield game. I will now wait to see how Pearson performs in ISP.

So they haven't done their job because they didn't play Saab and Masters?
 

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,927
So where should Mary go from here? I think most forum members have a good idea where he will go from here but what should he do?

Widdop
I'd say Widdop has the capability and skills to perform well at fullback however, he is coming off a shoulder injury and to me it looks like he is hesitant right now. Give him a few weeks and then review the situation.

Dufty
There is no doubt Dufty has X factor and has now been signed for another two years. It would be a real shame if there was not a concrete plan put in place to improve his game. Our real problem is not Dufty it is the make up of our squad compared to the game plan Mary wants to employ.

Outside Backs
Under Mary's plan the back three and centres for that matter need to bring the ball back out of our red zone. It is clear that neither Dufty or Widdop can do this from the back. The same applies when it comes to our wingers (we still need to take a look at Pearson) and our centres, Lomax made very little ground and Lafai seldom takes the ball in his red zone. To me this remains the big unanswered question with regards to our backline. Pereira is not the answer as he was rag dolled over the sideline in the same way we are concerned Field and Dufty would be.

Wingers
After watching the Charity Shield game, I'd be inclined to play Dufty and Field on our wings until we have our new wingers ready to take their place in first grade. Yes there is the problem of these two players being too light however, with some smart coaching, this could be a good brandade measure until our wingers are ready. Dufty and Field need to step back inside when taking the ball and when taking the second or third tackle out of our red zone, they both need to stand a little wider to take advantage of an unsettled defensive line. More importantly, both need to be trained how to hit the ground and play the ball quickly. Both Dufty and Field have the X factor, both are reasonable at taking the high ball, both have speed to burn.

Halves
I'd leave the halves as they are and drill them with combinations that bring our outside backs and edge forwards into play.

Forwards
My concerns are with the prop rotation. For me it is time to bring in our young props and blood them in first grade just in case we fade at the mid season mark again this season. With K Sims out for the first 2 rounds, I'd put Frizell at 13, Leilua on the left edge and T Sims on the right edge. Up front I would have Vaughan and either Kerr or Timm as the run on props with Graham and Lourie coming off the bench. Robson and McInnes to be in the hooker rotation.

Bench
I'd carry Robson at 14 on the bench mainly because he can double as hooker and backrow forward in rotation. With the flexibility we already have on the field, I'd have one of our backrow forwards move to centre if a back does down.



There are dilemmas aplenty for Supercoach Mary- He has an iffy defensive full back in Dufty who he publicly expresses confidence in but privately knows that he was a turnstile in defence last year and couldn't catch a cold and is yet to show if there has been any significant improvement in these key areas in 2019. Meanwhile, as you astutely observed Possm, he has the Wayne Bennett anointed England full-back in Widdop recovering from a shoulder reconstruction. Once a shoulder is injured, it is very vulnerable to reinjury, particularly in a contact sport, and Widdop wouldn't be human if he wasn't conscious of this and protecting it. I'm married to a Physio who is feeding me the lines on this.

This is such a shame as Widdop is normally a superb defender, reads the play well and very often is involved in making last ditch tackles when our line has been broken. If he does'n't recover fully or lacks confidence, get used to some big scores being run up on us. Without Reynolds, Souths goal kicking was poor and their general kicking game was all over the shop on Saturday night. I thought the score flattered us. Souths have another gear to go to - I'm not sure we do.

Meanwhile, the problems in the centres remain. Aitken's remarkable decline continues. He managed to make himself invisible- I didn't know he was on the field. He cannot possibly be picked for first grade on that display. Lafai is in good form, at the minute, on the left but will he again fade when the whips are cracking? Lomax made a few errors and at this stage, his inexperience is a liability. We've made a huge mistake letting Kurt Mann go when he could have played right centre.

Wing spots are also wide open. Ravalawa is obviously strong and fast but is he smart? Wingers and full backs these days have to be particularly smart with their positional play and decision making as they're the ones who can get rag dolled into touch or in goal and concede vital possession to the opposition. It doesn't matter if you're 120Kgs and can run like the wind, if you get caught with the ball and don't get to ground fast enough- with three and four defenders bearing down on you, you will be manhandled into touch or in goal. Nightingale's smartness was, in my opinion, his best attribute as a winger.

With regard to the forwards, I agree with your prop analysis Possm- however, without De Belin, I think we lack depth of quality in the back row- Host simply hasn't lived up to the hype for him and Luc still plays like he's just making the transition from ISP. Come SOO and we'll be struggling-again!
 

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