Cliffhanger - How the f**k is this thread still going?...Oh yeah boobs!

[umina panther]

I'd terminate

 

[soc123_au]

Curveball question.

Your missus is pregnant and at the 16 week mark or whenever it is, the scan for down syndrome comes up as a high possibility that the child will have it.

What would you do?

As a parent now of one little boy, I really don't know what I would do in that situation.

I would want to bat on. I have heard of cases where couples were advised to terminate & decided to stick with it & the babies were perfectly normal. Could also be propaganda, I don't know of any first hand. It would be a gut wrenching thing to find out. With my last 2 kids we opted out of finding out.

 

[butchmcdick]

I'd terminate

 

[MKEB...]

I thought you meant StormChaser. Then I remembered MC chased her away... there was a decent rack.

I miss storm chaser...I miss hallatia too and jesseel

 

[Cliffhanger]

No more serious talk.

 

[soc123_au]

No more serious talk.

Well you know what to do. May I suggest you ice up, slip on something tight & snap away. For bonus points a few similar shots of your friend would go a long way.

 

[Rhino_NQ]

Well you know what to do. May I suggest you ice up, slip on something tight & snap away. For bonus points a few similar shots of your friend would go a long way.

seconded

 

[Misanthrope]

I can see Mis's point but at the end of the day a man doesn't carry the baby etc.

But yeah, I think if a man is willing to spring for half the costs for the abortion and the women wants to keep it the man shouldn't have to be forced to provide for it.

He doesn't carry it, but he is likely expected to provide for it for the next eighteen years. I'd rather carry something for nine months than work 40 hours a week to pay for the kid.

And before anybody jumps on me, that's exactly what I would do if I had to. If the girl opted to keep the child, I would not want to be a deadbeat asshole who didn't look out for their child.

I wouldn't label it any of those.
I'd just say it shows limited thinking .

I'm not sure how it is limited thinking. If anything, thinking that way (that men should have the option to 'terminate' their role in a pregnancy in the same way a woman can) is outside of the generally accepted box.

Where is this album of which you speak?

Yes. Where?

Curveball question.

Your missus is pregnant and at the 16 week mark or whenever it is, the scan for down syndrome comes up as a high possibility that the child will have it.

What would you do?

As a parent now of one little boy, I really don't know what I would do in that situation.

My initial reaction would be: terminate. But that's likely not what I would do. My mother specializes in working with children with all manner of difficulties of both the mental and physical variety, and I've seen what wonderful, life-filled kids they are. I don't think I would have any trouble loving a child I raised regardless of its physical or mental condition.

Unless they were a f**king Sharks fan.

In all truth. I just finished a massive Uni assignment on this and conducted a survey on it. The results were very, very interesting. (Got 85% for it to).

Are you able to discuss the results?

Well you know what to do. May I suggest you ice up, slip on something tight & snap away. For bonus points a few similar shots of your friend would go a long way.

Pretty much this. The thread is boring as bat-shit nine pages out of ten. Tits out or let us continue a genuinely interesting conversation.

Jesus, its getting serious in here today. The abortion thing is pretty intense, personally I am of the belief that from conception it is a life. If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. We all know how babies are made. The only circumstance where I could forgive it is in the case of rape. My beliefs are a contributor to the fact that I am 42 with a 26 year old son. It made life a lot harder than it could have been, but I cant imagine changing the decision to go ahead with it.

Truth be told, this is how I tend to feel. In cases outside of rape or when a parent is woefully unprepared to be an adequate parent, I would say I disagree with abortion.

I add the addendum of 'woefully unprepared' because of my parents' extensive work with foster children and children from broken, abusive, or negligent families.

Sometimes, I think it would have been better for the child not to have been born.

 

[Dragon2010]

Are you able to discuss the results?

I can, but I don't thinking posting the opinions of 35+ people on this topic, on this forum would be the best idea right now. I really don't want to fuel the fire or bring up another point of debate.

 

[soc123_au]

I can, but I don't thinking posting the opinions of 35+ people on this topic, on this forum would be the best idea right now. I really don't want to fuel the fire or bring up another point of debate.

What fire? It has been mostly level headed discussion so far. Besides the results would be anonymous anyway. At the time you did the survey I was keen to see the results.

 

[Dragon2010]

What fire? It has been mostly level headed discussion so far. Besides the results would be anonymous anyway. At the time you did the survey I was keen to see the results.

Let me dig them up.

 

[soc123_au]

Good man. It is interesting to see the differing opinions.

While we wait make with boobs Clifford!

 

[Dragon2010]

Good man. It is interesting to see the differing opinions.

While we wait make with boobs Clifford!

As requested. My assignment was on FGS, which is the "new" maternal test and ultimately offers the parents a chance to abort should developments such as downs syndrome (Chromosome 21) or other defects are found. It's accurate - but it's not a certain.

What is your stance/why (Short answer responses):

Spoiler: Strongly Agree

o I think a baby born with medical and mental conditions is a horrible way to live for both the child and the parents. The child is forced to undergo virtually a lifetime of stressful and assumedly painful procedures and rehabilitation, whereas the parents are forced to spend money and time, whilst experiencing a horrific ordeal just to keep the baby/child alive and functioning at a satisfactory level. I see it in a similar mould as euthanasia, the decision should always be in the hands of the parents/family involved, who are any of us to decide what people should and shouldn't be able to do.
o If the advancement can happen I see no reason to prevent the technology being available to people should they wish to use it.
o Will help prepare the parents as to what to expect you don't necessarily have to abort a sick child
o i think people living with down syndrome have a very hard life with bullying and doing everyday activities. Also the families have a very hard life too because its very expensive and stressful for them, so i think scientist should invest in it and prevent people from having such hard lives.
o While I have a mentally and physically handicapped brother and can attest to the fact that he leads a full and happy life, I understand that many challenged kids do not or can not get the care they require.
o It will give people a better view of what they may have in future considering that mental and physical disorders can cause a great ammount of stress on families wellbeing
o Fetuses are not human beings, I am pro-choice and we have universal healthcare in Australia so that hopefully will not be an issue. On Question 2 I disagree with IVF not because I have any kind of religious objection to IVF (because I am not religious) but I do think that overpopulation is a problem.
o The world is overpopulated - there is no need to add to the problem with more mentally geniused children. I have no moral objection to abortion - it is what it is, a necessary evil to prevent overpopulation and the destruction of our planet. (NR?)
o Had we had this technology 22 years ago LU would be BunniesMan-free.
o I strongly agree with the FGS technology because it gives couples time to decide and except whether they want to live and accept a child with a known disability or terminate.
o As a person who has had a requirement for glasses to correct my vision from an early age, and seeing the affects and disadvantages this has played in my life. I would strongly agree with this technology being made available to correct conditions like mine, or far worst conditions. With this technology available, the possibilities to alter human evolution are endless. (NR- Not really sure what wearing glasses [Which many people have] is on the same calibre as down?s syndrome or such condition).
o The parents have a responsibility to ensure a basic quality of life for their child - this is an integral part of that.
o Well it would then be up to the individual whether they have the strenghth to deal with such a sad situation
o Parents will know whether they are capable or not of caring for a disabled child. If they know they cannot, then the quality of life will be much lower. Life quality lies with parents, and unfortunately not all are cut out for it.
o I think it gives couples the option to choose if they want to have a child with downs or not. If used in conjunction with existing test it would give couples more options. Put simply not everyone is down with downs and if you can avoid having a ginger window washer you should be able to. f**k the insurance companies
o It is a hard topic but I feel its important as children with disability have a hard life. At least this way the child and family dont suffer.
o It's Painful to see young children deformed and not able to live normal lives. If we have the technology to spot this out before then I say do it.
o Anything that can improve the overall standard of living for someone must be looked into purely from a science and ethical perspective.
o Prevent Future Bunniesmen (NR)

Spoiler: Somewhat Agree

o I believe that everyone should get a chance at the best quality of life and I feel this screening may improve that if it is implemented correctly. My only fear is that there will be grey areas if it happens. I only approve of this if there are no grey areas and the abortion is at the correct early stages.
o It will let the parents make a decision if they are emotionally and financially capable of raising the child.
o Screening has clear advantages given the reduction in potential genetic disorders and other medical conditions. However, allowing parents or doctors to simply 'try again' carries with it the potential for a floodgate situation where genetic screening turns into eugenics.
o Having a child with mental issues puts a strain on the child as well as the parents. Realistically, not very parent will have the metaphorical heart nor the money to invest in raising a child with mental health issues. And the child itself will have what can be arguably called a different quality of life - even the most tolerant and compassionate of people look at children with mental issues in a different way. I think this solution can be a more humane way to deal with what can often end in heartbreak for all parties involved.
o I think its good if you can prevent a person entering the world where their life will be one of pain, disadvantage and inability to live life without full dependence on parental care. However, I think this should only apply for extreme cases, not minor or manageable diseases. It should also only be decided with 100% certainly that of the severe disease.
o I agree with avoiding situations of hardship on people which can be medically avoided. I can't strongly agree, because I worry about abuse of the process and I don't know at what gestational age the tests would be applied and terminations performed.
o I don't know enough to be able to make an informed decision. It seems there are quite a lot of issues involved. One of them being spiritual beliefs.
o Mental geniusation presents an increased burden not just on the parents but on society and if this can be detected and parents given the choice, then they should be made aware and allowed to make an informed decision as to whether they are going to carry on with the pregnancy and commit the rest of their lives towards looking after the child.
o Should be only based upon peoples wishes and not forced by Doctors. i.e People should be given the choice and option to know or access the risk, particularly where hereditary conditions and underlying and known.
o I have no ethical dilemma with regards to abortion, and think that the quality of life of both parent and child is important to consider. However I think this could become a slippery slope towards eugenics, and screening for other genetic traits could have serious consequences for society.
o It allows parents to prevent the birth of a child that will suffer a diminished quality of life. Having to live an entire life with downs-syndrome is a burden on both the child and the parents.
o People shoudld have the choice on whether they keep a child + if it helps to reduce the amount of medical conditions prevalent it is good.

Spoiler: Neutral

o I don't believe in intervention after conception,what is destined should be accepted,however I'd prefer parents genetic screening prior to conception
o If its meant to be its meant to be in my opinion
o I believe people should be allowed to do what they choose.
o I feel this is a personal choice & everyone's situation is different.
o It is an important issue and would like to understand it more before taking a position
o Pro choice. Based on parents personal circumstances

Spoiler: Somewhat Disagree

o The anticipation of waiting for the sex agenda of your baby is to overpowering (NR)
o I don't really agree with abortion. Downs or not. Still a life. You get what you are given for a reason.
o I believe we shouldn't interfere with the natural pathway of life. If the child was born with an extra chromosome 21, then that was meant to happen. The child should be able to live nevertheless
o Good technology but it brings potential risks for millions of things could go wrong and human?s history had proved that technology itself cannot solve the problem. e.g. nuclear weapon did not stop the war, internet did not eliminate the Illiteracy, same is here. The question you asked is a much bigger one which involves culture, morality, law, religion and maybe technology itself could only be ranked close to the bottom of this list.
o God does things for a reason. Humans shouldn't have that ability to choose their baby.
o Can agree for some cases however it leaves it open to manufactured babies
o Life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're gonna get.FGS would take the unknown out of life.some of the best things in life come from there.

Spoiler: Strongly Disagree

o I believe if a couple cannot conceive a child there are other means the couple can do to have a family. For example adopting is a great way to offer a child a home and create a loving family. Testing for disabilities when a woman is pregnant and having the option to abort the pregnancy in the case the child does have a disability is beyond disgusting. Every child has the right to live and people who would choose to abort a child if they had a disability don't deserve to be a parent.
o Life starts at conception, totally disagree with abortion.
o Because no one has the right to get rid of a life whether it be "geniused" or not.
o We should not be playing god, things happen for a reason. Parents should love and care for their kid regardless and life is a gift, not a choice to constantly abort because one is different.
o I do not agree with abortion in any way
o I see big potential in this research. Could only bring a better quality of life to the child in question. (They marked this is disagree. Answer states opposite. Possible confusion?)
o As a parent with a child with a disability & able body children as well i would not change it for the world he is one of our greatest joys
o My feelings are that to be able to fall pregnant is a gift no matter what ever happens
o I know of examples where the parents have been advised the Baby has Downs & told to consider termination. The parents went ahead with the pregnancy & the babies were born & no defects.
o I agree with IVF only where the parents cannot conceive naturally. I do not agree with altering any embyos. (NR- Possible confusion with question 2? However, still holds some relevance in medical eugenics).
o Based on the above, I am against foetal gene screening. I believe that life begins at fertilisation (i.e. when the sperm interacts with the egg and the fusion of gametes to initiate the development of a new individual organism occurs). On the basis of this, I am against the screening due to the consequences it brings e.g. abortion due to a disability discovered. In principle, I am ok for the screening to occur if abortion does not occur. Understanding the genetic make up of the baby is fine as it gives parents the chance to understand what they will encounter and allow them time to prepare. This is fine. It is the consequences such a screening brings that I have an issue with. The likelihood a parent won't be covered by health insurance if the child is deemed to have a condition that should have been 'prevented' is, in my mind, deeply distressing. It is the thin edge of a wedge towards an age in human society where a child being blind, or deaf, or born with something else that is not life threatening is deemed a 'preventable' syndrome and humanity seeks to 'weed out' any abnormality rather than embrace life for the differences that it brings. Whilst I understand Downs Syndrome and other conditions are terrifically difficult on the parents and society, have we become so hard of heart that we would rather kill the baby in a selfish attempt to purify the gene pool than accept the child is different and love it for its life and the challenges it presents?

Note: This is all anon. I know who a few are, and the answers they gave. This is not my opinion either.

 

[soc123_au]

Thanks D10. Some interesting opinions. Nice to see Goldenrod get a few mentions. lol.

 

[Dragon2010]

Thanks D10. Some interesting opinions. Nice to see Goldenrod get a few mentions. lol.

You're welcome, mate.

 

[Misanthrope]

What do people think of 'designer babies'? Do you think it is morally wrong for parents to be able to choose certain physical features they'd like their child to have such as sex, hair colour, eye colour etc?

 

[Springs]

What do people think of 'designer babies'? Do you think it is morally wrong for parents to be able to choose certain physical features they'd like their child to have such as sex, hair colour, eye colour etc?

Yes

 

[Misanthrope]

Yes

A well reasoned and thoughtful response. Thank you for contributing.

 

[Dani]

I'd want to know if something "wasn't right".

But whether or not I'd terminate or not is something that I would take case by case. There's a lot to consider, not only for the child but for selfish reasons also.

As another example, I have been vehemently warned against falling pregnant with my spine the way it is. But I still wouldn't cross that bridge until I came to it and explored all my choices.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

What do people think of 'designer babies'? Do you think it is morally wrong for parents to be able to choose certain physical features they'd like their child to have such as sex, hair colour, eye colour etc?

Well, everyone who has had blue eyes in my family (brother, Mum, both grandmothers) has a streak of batshit insanity in them. So if I can avoid blue eyed children, that would be awesome.