Club management

[franklin2323]

To be fair rep teams like that are exempt from the salary cap. Would be nice to have the top 5 or 6 players of the entire nrl make up the backline.

Rep sides or not. Very few sides have a 7 that dominates atm it seems to be the FB that is the one. 2 years ago - When this convo happened was the same.

Hence why another posted discussed if someone like Townsend for half the price is better cap wise

 

[mxlegend99]

I don't rate halfbacks simple.

I will say this. Moses is a huge downgrade but do you see NSW losing that game still?

When was the last time a team won a comp without atleast one high quality half?

2020 - Storm had Munster
2019 and 2018 - Roosters had Keary and Cronk. Pearce and Keary couldn't get it done. Cronk slots in for 2 years to win back to back comps.
2017 - Storm had Munster and Cronk the time before that.
2016 - Sharks had James Maloney
2015 - Cowboys had Thurston and Morgan
2014 - Souths had Reynolds and Keary... The worst to win
2013 - Maloney and Pearce.. Maloney carried the 2 worst halves to competition wins
2012 - Storm had Cronk

Cronk wins 3 in a row at 2 separate clubs. Both powerhouse clubs but the success followed him. Great halves are the biggest ingredient toward winning a competition. With an average pair you're doomed unless you got a superstar squad around them and even then an average halves pairing is a handbrake on their ability

 

[franklin2323]

When was the last time a team won a comp without atleast one high quality half?

2020 - Storm had Munster
2019 and 2018 - Roosters had Keary and Cronk. Pearce and Keary couldn't get it done. Cronk slots in for 2 years to win back to back comps.
2017 - Storm had Munster and Cronk the time before that.
2016 - Sharks had James Maloney
2015 - Cowboys had Thurston and Morgan
2014 - Souths had Reynolds and Keary... The worst to win
2013 - Maloney and Pearce.. Maloney carried the 2 worst halves to competition wins
2012 - Storm had Cronk

Cronk wins 3 in a row at 2 separate clubs. Both powerhouse clubs but the success followed him. Great halves are the biggest ingredient toward winning a competition. With an average pair you're doomed unless you got a superstar squad around them and even then an average halves pairing is a handbrake on their ability

In those years you mentioned

Papenhuyzen
Lewis
Burgess
Wighton
Slater
Keary at 5/8th

All won Man of the Match in GF. In fact Thurston in 2015 was the last halfback to win it.

A good 7 is fine to get the job done if you have talent around it.

Even looking at the Dally M awards for the last 10 years

JT won it but was tied with Hayne as a 7. Won it by himself as a 6
Cronk tied with Taulalomolo. Once by himself.

The rest

Carney, Wighton, Barba, RTS, Cam Smith, Tedesco.

So recent history is littered with great players in other positions being more successful then a 7.

The fact Moses is the back up NSW 7 shows how shallow the talent depth is

 

[mxlegend99]

In those years you mentioned

Papenhuyzen
Lewis
Burgess
Wighton
Slater
Keary at 5/8th

All won Man of the Match in GF. In fact Thurston in 2015 was the last halfback to win it.

A good 7 is fine to get the job done if you have talent around it.

Even looking at the Dally M awards for the last 10 years

JT won it but was tied with Hayne as a 7. Won it by himself as a 6
Cronk tied with Taulalomolo. Once by himself.

The rest

Carney, Wighton, Barba, RTS, Cam Smith, Tedesco.

So recent history is littered with great players in other positions being more successful then a 7.

The fact Moses is the back up NSW 7 shows how shallow the talent depth is

You blame the 7 for every loss and then say they're not important. If they aren't important why not blame the merkins that are?

What did Walker and Cook do in Origin 3 last year? Nothing. Likewise Gutherson after he replaced Teddy. Cleary was the only one in the spine doing anything and he kept us in the game despite being smashed in possession, field position and going nowhere in our sets. Yet all you do is say he didn't do enough as we lost.

The fact you move the goal posts with every posts shows you either don't know shit about football or you're just being anti Cleary.

Our spine would be no more expensive than any of the top teams spines. Possibly even middle of the road for cost. Yet aside from Edwards a debate can be made that our player is the best in his position or close to it. That's a good value spine.

 

[franklin2323]

You blame the 7 for every loss and then say they're not important. If they aren't important why not blame the merkins that are?

What did Walker and Cook do in Origin 3 last year? Nothing. Likewise Gutherson after he replaced Teddy. Cleary was the only one in the spine doing anything and he kept us in the game despite being smashed in possession, field position and going nowhere in our sets. Yet all you do is say he didn't do enough as we lost.

The fact you move the goal posts with every posts shows you either don't know shit about football or you're just being anti Cleary.

Our spine would be no more expensive than any of the top teams spines. Possibly even middle of the road for cost. Yet aside from Edwards a debate can be made that our player is the best in his position or close to it. That's a good value spine.

We lost SOO 3 last year because no Latrell, Teddy or Tommy Turbo. The 7 is minimal in any side

No way ours would cost more than Storm atm. That will possibly change when Papenhuyzen and Grant re-sign

Api $500k...Will we have space to re-sign him
Luai $700k
Cleary $1m
Edwards $400k

I don't see Edwards getting re-signing so depends who steps in and of course Api's upgrade.

 

[mxlegend99]

We lost SOO 3 last year because no Latrell, Teddy or Tommy Turbo. The 7 is minimal in any side

The 7 is minimal yet all you ever do is say that Cleary should have been good enough to single handedly win last years grand final and Origin series. How can a position you claim is minimal also betge position you look straight at for not performing?

You must have missed the decade of Queensland destroying NSW because they wouldn't pick any halfback other than Pearce. Or the fact that the second they did pick other halves (club combinations) they won those series.

Queensland won every series since 2006. Except for 4 series.

2014 - Bulldogs halves Hodkinson and Reynolds
2018 - Panthers halves Maloney and Cleary
2019 - Panthers halves Maloney and Cleary
2021 - Panthers halves Luai and Cleary

The 4 series NSW picked club halves not including Pearce they won the series. This year NSW shattered records with Cleary and Luai in the halves. But the 7 has minimal impact.

The one series win Pearce played part in it was Maloney at 6 who had a club combination from their Roosters premiership together.

Good combinations win big games. As Luai and Cleary develop they are quickly becoming the best combination. With minimal effort. They bring the best out in each other and they play the footy that best allows their teammates to thrive

Luai without Cleary looks a shadow of the player he is with Cleary. Likewise Panthers without Clearly look lost. You need only look at our scorelines with Cleary and our scorelines without him to see his impact.

2 games without Luai and Cleary
2 losses (-21 f/a) 24 points for 45 against
Average 100% loss rate, 12 points scored, 22.5 conceded

2 games with Luai but no Cleary
2 wins (+3 f/a) 25 points for, 22 conceded
Average 100% win rate, 12.5 points scored, 11 conceded

12 games with Cleary and Luai
12 wins (+330 f/a) 420 points scored, 90points conceded
Average 100% win rate, 35 points scored, 7.5 points conceded

So without Nathan our average margin is +1.5 with Luai still in. With Nathan our average margin is +27.5

He's worth 26 points a game difference if you only include the games Luai played in. A hell of a lot more if you include the Origin effected rounds. He has brought his form to Origin and NSW has had its most dominant series win ever with him in the team. Playing 70 minutes of game 2 with one arm aswell.

 

[Smug Panther]

Halfback is the most important position on the field

 

[mxlegend99]

Halfback is the most important position on the field

Every NRL club agrees. Except for those with a great #6, they're all willing to pay more for a great half than any other position.

Oh and Titans... apparently they would rather pay David Fifita 20% more than we pay Cleary to make cameo appearances in the second row.

 

[franklin2323]

Halfback is the most important position on the field

Halfbacks can't do anything without a pack and good dummy half service. When is the last true 7 the Storm have had?

 

[Smug Panther]

Halfbacks can't do anything without a pack and good dummy half service. When is the last true 7 the Storm have had?

Cronk all those years? Having the best 9 of all time was a work around

 

[franklin2323]

The 7 is minimal yet all you ever do is say that Cleary should have been good enough to single handedly win last years grand final and Origin series. How can a position you claim is minimal also betge position you look straight at for not performing?

You must have missed the decade of Queensland destroying NSW because they wouldn't pick any halfback other than Pearce. Or the fact that the second they did pick other halves (club combinations) they won those series.

Queensland won every series since 2006. Except for 4 series.

2014 - Bulldogs halves Hodkinson and Reynolds
2018 - Panthers halves Maloney and Cleary
2019 - Panthers halves Maloney and Cleary
2021 - Panthers halves Luai and Cleary

The 4 series NSW picked club halves not including Pearce they won the series. This year NSW shattered records with Cleary and Luai in the halves. But the 7 has minimal impact.

The one series win Pearce played part in it was Maloney at 6 who had a club combination from their Roosters premiership together.

Good combinations win big games. As Luai and Cleary develop they are quickly becoming the best combination. With minimal effort. They bring the best out in each other and they play the footy that best allows their teammates to thrive

Luai without Cleary looks a shadow of the player he is with Cleary. Likewise Panthers without Clearly look lost. You need only look at our scorelines with Cleary and our scorelines without him to see his impact.

2 games without Luai and Cleary
2 losses (-21 f/a) 24 points for 45 against
Average 100% loss rate, 12 points scored, 22.5 conceded

2 games with Luai but no Cleary
2 wins (+3 f/a) 25 points for, 22 conceded
Average 100% win rate, 12.5 points scored, 11 conceded

12 games with Cleary and Luai
12 wins (+330 f/a) 420 points scored, 90points conceded
Average 100% win rate, 35 points scored, 7.5 points conceded

So without Nathan our average margin is +1.5 with Luai still in. With Nathan our average margin is +27.5

He's worth 26 points a game difference if you only include the games Luai played in. A hell of a lot more if you include the Origin effected rounds. He has brought his form to Origin and NSW has had its most dominant series win ever with him in the team. Playing 70 minutes of game 2 with one arm aswell.

It is because the 7 is minimal that he wasn't able to do it. Not him all 7's

QLD won the Series because of stacked side not the 7.

To put into persective.

Since 2012 when they started awarding player of the series

2012 - Nate Myles
2013 - Cam Smith
2014- Paul Gallen
2015 - Corey Parker
2016 - Cam Smith
2017- Dane Gagai
2018 - Billy Slater
2019 - James Tedesco
2020 - Cam Munster

NSW Players of the year for those times

2012 - Robbie Farah
2013 - Greg Bird
2014- Jarryd Hayne
2015 - Josh Dugan
2016 - Josh Jackson
2017 - David Klemmer
2018 - James Tedesco
2019 - James Tedesco

Cleary did win it last year.

All those Player of the series were during the time that JT was smashing point scoring records. Cronk had a few late Field Goals too and still other players got it.

So we have CC, Dally M, Now SOO players of the series going to postions other then 7..

That is why I don't rate halfback as important as other people do.

Give me a great forward, A great 9 or 1. with just a good halfback any day of the week

 

[mxlegend99]

It is because the 7 is minimal that he wasn't able to do it. Not him all 7's

QLD won the Series because of stacked side not the 7.

To put into persective.

Since 2012 when they started awarding player of the series

2012 - Nate Myles
2013 - Cam Smith
2014- Paul Gallen
2015 - Corey Parker
2016 - Cam Smith
2017- Dane Gagai
2018 - Billy Slater
2019 - James Tedesco
2020 - Cam Munster

NSW Players of the year for those times

2012 - Robbie Farah
2013 - Greg Bird
2014- Jarryd Hayne
2015 - Josh Dugan
2016 - Josh Jackson
2017 - David Klemmer
2018 - James Tedesco
2019 - James Tedesco

Cleary did win it last year.

All those Player of the series were during the time that JT was smashing point scoring records. Cronk had a few late Field Goals too and still other players got it.

So we have CC, Dally M, Now SOO players of the series going to postions other then 7..

That is why I don't rate halfback as important as other people do.

Give me a great forward, A great 9 or 1. with just a good halfback any day of the week

Going to completely ignore the fact that with a great #7 Panthers are 26 points a game better off than having Luai and Burton/May?

The fact that NSW with our halves scored our biggest win ever in Game 1, and in Game 2 won easily despite the referee trying to get Queensland back into the contest in both matches. That these halves are responsible for NSW having the most dominant Origin series ever?

The fact that in a stacked side these past 2 years Cleary has polled enough points to still be in the Dally M hunt with fewer games?

Halves make everyone in the team better. Their job is to make their team look like superstars. Their job is to control the game. Cleary plans ahead better than any half in the game and he's the biggest reason you think Panthers are so much better than everyone else to the point where we can win easily without him. Yet both wins without him came down to a bit of luck and effort. Every game with him is decided long before the siren goes. All 4 games without him our attack lacked direction and the execution in attack looked shockingly bad

You're the one person on the planet who thinks a halfback is not that important... And the only reason for that is because we have the best one in the competition and you don't like him If we had a shit half like Brooks or Townsend you would be saying how important it is to sign a quality half... And you would be right.

 

[franklin2323]

Cronk all those years? Having the best 9 of all time was a work around

Cronk like Hughes was a utility made into a 7. Smith and Slater helped the transition

 

[Smug Panther]

Cronk like Hughes was a utility made into a 7. Smith and Slater helped the transition

Bedsy wasn't a hooker. Luke Lewis a winger, Yeo a centre. Your statement means zero

 

[Smug Panther]

Infact I called for a ball playing 13 years ago in Carty or Peach and you carried on and on about 13's just being props

 

[franklin2323]

Going to completely ignore the fact that with a great #7 Panthers are 26 points a game better off than having Luai and Burton/May?

The fact that NSW with our halves scored our biggest win ever in Game 1, and in Game 2 won easily despite the referee trying to get Queensland back into the contest in both matches. That these halves are responsible for NSW having the most dominant Origin series ever?

The fact that in a stacked side these past 2 years Cleary has polled enough points to still be in the Dally M hunt with fewer games?

Halves make everyone in the team better. Their job is to make their team look like superstars. Their job is to control the game. Cleary plans ahead better than any half in the game and he's the biggest reason you think Panthers are so much better than everyone else to the point where we can win easily without him. Yet both wins without him came down to a bit of luck and effort. Every game with him is decided long before the siren goes. All 4 games without him our attack lacked direction and the execution in attack looked shockingly bad

You're the one person on the planet who thinks a halfback is not that important... And the only reason for that is because we have the best one in the competition and you don't like him If we had a shit half like Brooks or Townsend you would be saying how important it is to sign a quality half... And you would be right.

We played Storm and Parra for 2 of those games without Cleary. Very likely it is tight anyway.

Our defence is why we are so much better than everyone else. I can't find stats of any side having less then 10 points a game against this far in the season.

The attack goes in waves we look great for 30 mins or so then seem to back off. Though to be fair the spine hasn't played much together so still has time.

I have listed all the awards other positions have won. There are 13 immortals and in 110 odd years only 1 halfback has got a start on the list. So no others think you can get by with a good halfback.

Hard to say in that scenario because likely wouldn't have Ivan coach. That may end of changing other positions too

Although Townsend has won a premiership soo it can be done

 

[WestyLife]

We played Storm and Parra for 2 of those games without Cleary. Very likely it is tight anyway.

Our defence is why we are so much better than everyone else. I can't find stats of any side having less then 10 points a game against this far in the season.

The attack goes in waves we look great for 30 mins or so then seem to back off. Though to be fair the spine hasn't played much together so still has time.

I have listed all the awards other positions have won. There are 13 immortals and in 110 odd years only 1 halfback has got a start on the list. So no others think you can get by with a good halfback.

Hard to say in that scenario because likely wouldn't have Ivan coach. That may end of changing other positions too

Although Townsend has won a premiership soo it can be done

Townsend had Maloney who was an amazing player.

 

[franklin2323]

Bedsy wasn't a hooker. Luke Lewis a winger, Yeo a centre. Your statement means zero

Latrell has won comps at centre. Now is playing centre in SOO BUT is a FB at club level? Doesn't mean he is centre.

Often players move to where is better for the side. If not for Joey maybe Buderus stays at 7.
Cam Smith debuted at 7 yet became the best 9 ever

 

[franklin2323]

Townsend had Maloney who was an amazing player.

As Cleary is surrounded by talent too. 3 spine members are in SOO so the squad is stacked here too

 

[WestyLife]

As Cleary is surrounded by talent too. 3 spine members are in SOO so the squad is stacked here too

Maloney was a half and the dominant personality by all accounts. Shows how important having at least 1 great half is.