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Cook for an origin bench spot

CliveC

Juniors
Messages
393
McInnes is a good player but Cookie has x factor in Spades plus his d. Is good and he is capable of improvement.
SOO may just give him that polish that he lacks.I said much the same when Merritt and Sutts were at their peak,they were good enough but deprived of opportunity by the bigot Fulton!
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
But if you’re gonna talk about tackle efficiency shouldn’t you talk about the forward packs they play around as well? Mcinnes and Wallace play around 2 of the best forward packs in the competition. The reason why this is so important is because a missed tackle is counted when there is an offload and some teams are much better at preventing that than others. Souths’ big boys are terrible at wrapping the ball up whilst the Dragons and Panthers do a much better job of it. There is also less of a chance that Mcinnes will be left by himself considering he’s got two world class props outside of him plus a NSW rep in JDB.

Tackle efficiencies are always gonna be higher when you’re not doing as much running either. That’s just common sense. You’re gonna be more fatigued from running so tackling will be harder. You can’t just say running is insignificant and tackling matters more in origin because it’s a subjective statement. Last year NSW played with a player who imo is an exact model of Mcinnes in Nathan Peats. It was fine for the first game because we had an X factor in Fifita who the opposition couldn’t handle but as soon as they figured him out we had nothing. They rolled over us and Peats offered nothing in attack. Mcinnes is the same. He doesn’t offer anything in attack besides the occasional dive for the try line which a team like QLD aren’t going to fall for. Even last week Cook created an opportunity for our first try against the dragons yet their were no support runners because we were exhausted from all the defending we had to do. Would’ve been a try if Maloney or Trbojevic were playing though.

Which brings me to my next point about rosters. You can’t use wins as a factor of who’s a better hooker. The whole time Cook has been at Souths we have been struggling. Mcinnes didn’t fix that when he was here and neither did Farah so I don’t really know how you can use that as a point for origin contention.

You can’t just use one stat and start ranking hookers accordingly. It just doesn’t work. It doesn’t fit their playing ability. Mcinnes best attribute is tackling so obviously it’s going to favour him to talk about tackling efficiency.

Penrith 87.4% Souths 87.8% StGI 89.2%
So while you may be onto something regarding McInnes, Wallace is part of a side who has a worse defence than Cook's Souths.

It's all a matter of opinion but calling Paul Vaughn 'world class' is a stretch while JDB has never been a NSW rep. In fact it is Cook who has two world class props in Sam and Tom alongside him with future NSW rep Murray. Penriths defence is improved from previous seasons but to consider it one of the best is a stretch.

You're correct that running will fatigue a player bit if this is having an impact on Cook's defensive duties, then shouldn't he either be smarter when choosing his runs or defend where there is less traffic?

McInnes runs more than Peats - always has. In fact Peats averages 10 less metres per game at 37.8m. Last year going into Origin, Peats was picked as the best of a bad bunch, Farah was coming from the bench with Souths and still being discussed. 2018 however there are blokes putting their hand up for the job and someone will unfortunately moss out.

Of the now 8 players mentioned, McInness is 3rd for average run metres behind Cook (who's average is inflated by the Penrith game where he only played the middle, Crichton and Sutton played dummy half on the edges) and McCullough (who's average is probably damaged after coming from the bench in round 1 and has returned from a knee injury)

Winning is hugely important. It becomes a habit and you only need to look at the Qld side of the last decade to see that. Every one of their spine players come from winning environments and in the crunch moments it's evident.

McInnes was never given the 80 minute role. Post-Luke he was always left to share it with Cook and if i recall correctly, he had a better success rate in the 9 than Cook did when he started over the same period. Farah has never been a winner either, Wests jagged a premiership while he was there but out side of that they were a losing club. In fact you bringing up Farah only highlights my point of why NSW need to go with a winning hooker.

Of course there are other factors involved but if a hooker can't defend, he isn't much use. Afterall, the Cook love in revolves around his running metres, one stat that majority of the other options don't feature in because it isn't that big a part of the job compared to defending
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
McInnes is a good player but Cookie has x factor in Spades plus his d. Is good and he is capable of improvement.
SOO may just give him that polish that he lacks.I said much the same when Merritt and Sutts were at their peak,they were good enough but deprived of opportunity by the bigot Fulton!

If Cook's x-factor is deemed good enough to win games of origin, then why isn't it winning games of first grade?
 

CliveC

Juniors
Messages
393
If Cook's x-factor is deemed good enough to win games of origin, then why isn't it winning games of first grade?
Have you seen Cookies tackles made for Souths?Its not a love in mate,no one can predict his X factor until he plays in that elite company!
He played rep games last year so someone with footy expertise likes him!
I wish him well.
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
Have you seen Cookies tackles made for Souths?Its not a love in mate,no one can predict his X factor until he plays in that elite company!
He played rep games last year so someone with footy expertise likes him!
I wish him well.

Rep game. Don't exaggerate to attempt to strengthen your point. It actually weakens it.
Aaron Gray played City-Country the year before, his career is clearly flying now... right by him.

Look, i like Cook as Souths hooker. There are better options but he is having a good year and has improved his game a lot. I would be happy to see him remain in the position for a few seasons unless someone elite became available.
The only concern that i have with him is that he looks good when Souths look good. Penrith is the perfect example of this. A great first half while it was all Souths but when Penrith were coming in the second and somebody needed to stand up, he (along with Cody) went missing and it was left to the debutant Doueihi to steer the side around.
Meanwhile, Wallace did step up and steered his side aroumd the park. McCullough did the same with Brisbane who have a spine worst than ours vs NQ that round. Smith has made a career out of it, so did Buderus.
Now that doesn't make Cook the worst dummy half in the league or even in the worst 5 but what it says to me is that he isn't in the top bracket of 9's at the moment.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,069
But if you’re gonna talk about tackle efficiency shouldn’t you talk about the forward packs they play around as well? Mcinnes and Wallace play around 2 of the best forward packs in the competition. The reason why this is so important is because a missed tackle is counted when there is an offload and some teams are much better at preventing that than others. Souths’ big boys are terrible at wrapping the ball up whilst the Dragons and Panthers do a much better job of it. There is also less of a chance that Mcinnes will be left by himself considering he’s got two world class props outside of him plus a NSW rep in JDB.

Tackle efficiencies are always gonna be higher when you’re not doing as much running either. That’s just common sense. You’re gonna be more fatigued from running so tackling will be harder. You can’t just say running is insignificant and tackling matters more in origin because it’s a subjective statement. Last year NSW played with a player who imo is an exact model of Mcinnes in Nathan Peats. It was fine for the first game because we had an X factor in Fifita who the opposition couldn’t handle but as soon as they figured him out we had nothing. They rolled over us and Peats offered nothing in attack. Mcinnes is the same. He doesn’t offer anything in attack besides the occasional dive for the try line which a team like QLD aren’t going to fall for. Even last week Cook created an opportunity for our first try against the dragons yet their were no support runners because we were exhausted from all the defending we had to do. Would’ve been a try if Maloney or Trbojevic were playing though.

Which brings me to my next point about rosters. You can’t use wins as a factor of who’s a better hooker. The whole time Cook has been at Souths we have been struggling. Mcinnes didn’t fix that when he was here and neither did Farah so I don’t really know how you can use that as a point for origin contention.

You can’t just use one stat and start ranking hookers accordingly. It just doesn’t work. It doesn’t fit their playing ability. Mcinnes best attribute is tackling so obviously it’s going to favour him to talk about tackling efficiency.
Mcturtle is made to look much better than he is. He's overrated!

In fact your post STID is the best post in this whole thread imo!
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,069
Penrith 87.4% Souths 87.8% StGI 89.2%
So while you may be onto something regarding McInnes, Wallace is part of a side who has a worse defence than Cook's Souths.

It's all a matter of opinion but calling Paul Vaughn 'world class' is a stretch while JDB has never been a NSW rep. In fact it is Cook who has two world class props in Sam and Tom alongside him with future NSW rep Murray. Penriths defence is improved from previous seasons but to consider it one of the best is a stretch.

You're correct that running will fatigue a player bit if this is having an impact on Cook's defensive duties, then shouldn't he either be smarter when choosing his runs or defend where there is less traffic?

McInnes runs more than Peats - always has. In fact Peats averages 10 less metres per game at 37.8m. Last year going into Origin, Peats was picked as the best of a bad bunch, Farah was coming from the bench with Souths and still being discussed. 2018 however there are blokes putting their hand up for the job and someone will unfortunately moss out.

Of the now 8 players mentioned, McInness is 3rd for average run metres behind Cook (who's average is inflated by the Penrith game where he only played the middle, Crichton and Sutton played dummy half on the edges) and McCullough (who's average is probably damaged after coming from the bench in round 1 and has returned from a knee injury)

Winning is hugely important. It becomes a habit and you only need to look at the Qld side of the last decade to see that. Every one of their spine players come from winning environments and in the crunch moments it's evident.

McInnes was never given the 80 minute role. Post-Luke he was always left to share it with Cook and if i recall correctly, he had a better success rate in the 9 than Cook did when he started over the same period. Farah has never been a winner either, Wests jagged a premiership while he was there but out side of that they were a losing club. In fact you bringing up Farah only highlights my point of why NSW need to go with a winning hooker.

Of course there are other factors involved but if a hooker can't defend, he isn't much use. Afterall, the Cook love in revolves around his running metres, one stat that majority of the other options don't feature in because it isn't that big a part of the job compared to defending
Mcturtle got moved on as he was pedestrian!! That's putting it kindly!

Was far too hesitant with his passing and didn't run!

We lost all momentum gained with him!

Good riddance and he is overrated!

All he does is tackle! With Mcturtle at hooker for origin we won't win at all!
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,069
@Souths Till I Die the funny thing they're ignoring is the past 4 times we played St George Cook outplayed Mcturtle each time! Even without looking at the stats you could just see it so clearly! That says a lot!

My Dragons mates even though it hurt them to admit it said the same thing and they believe that the young guy will get a bench spot at some point!
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
Mcturtle got moved on as he was pedestrian!! That's putting it kindly!

Was far too hesitant with his passing and didn't run!

We lost all momentum gained with him!

Good riddance and he is overrated!

All he does is tackle! With Mcturtle at hooker for origin we won't win at all!

McInnes was only moved on after he'd signed with StGI 4 weeks before the finals. This was revealed during Cook's special on Fox League last Good Friday.

At 24, Cam is still young for a hooker and with numbers already resembling those of a future immortal and his potential opponent in Origin, he has a big future ahead of him.
It wouldn't surprise me if he went away with the Australian team as Smith's understudy.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,069
Lol you're kidding!!!!

A future immortal!!!

f**k me I have heard it all now!

Getting a good laugh though so thanks for that!

HahahahHaha can't stop laughing!!..............

Oh my............
 

ThingFish

Juniors
Messages
1,665
Lol you're kidding!!!!

A future immortal!!!

f**k me I have heard it all now!

Getting a good laugh though so thanks for that!

HahahahHaha can't stop laughing!!..............

Oh my............
I don’t think Trav is saying Cam Mc is a future immortal. He’s saying his stats are approaching Cam Smith’s stats, who is a future immortal.
 

ThingFish

Juniors
Messages
1,665
BTW I don’t think Cook is SOO material. SOO is not a best stats deserves selection scenario. A SOO player needs resilience, they need patience under adversity. When Cooks “X factor” kicks in and he’s in the clear there’s always a 50% chance he’ll have a brain explosion and throw the ball just for the sake of throwing it. Has blown a number of tries for us doing that. Hyper ADD players don’t make good SOO players. Plus I’d rather he be playing for us during the SOO period.
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
@Souths Till I Die the funny thing they're ignoring is the past 4 times we played St George Cook outplayed Mcturtle each time! Even without looking at the stats you could just see it so clearly! That says a lot!

My Dragons mates even though it hurt them to admit it said the same thing and they believe that the young guy will get a bench spot at some point!

StGI and Souths have only played twice since Cam joined and all the Saints fans i know wouldn't swap McInnes for anyone.

Cook ran more than Cam last round but averaged 4.5 post contact metres per tackle break, 3m per run compared to Cam getting 11 per tackle break and 5.5 per run.
Cam had 10 more tackles, 3 more 1v1 and both missed 1 each.
Neither had an assist of any form.
I wouldn't say one outplayed the other. Cook was better running, McInness was better tackling. StGI won. Make of that what you wish.
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
Have you seen Cookies tackles made for Souths?Its not a love in mate,no one can predict his X factor until he plays in that elite company!
He played rep games last year so someone with footy expertise likes him!
I wish him well.

While doing a bit of research i discovered that Cam played in the same rep game for the opposition and came out victourious.
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
Lol, you're being deliberately difficult.

Lol. Am i wrong though?
X-factor is great but it's usually a nice way of saying inconsistent. While it brings some great moments and passages of play, it rarely equates to success.
 

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