Cooper cronk

[Vasilevsky]

Such a response highlights your total inability to read entire posts and comprehend them.

Someone other than you supporting Benji is hardly a commanding position.

I note that you avoided the invitation to look at the stats as you always choose to ignore anything and everything that does not coincide with your position.

You will note that this entire thread is about the No 7 position not Benjji v Widdop although you try your hardest to steer it that way.

So for the record do you believe Benji is best at No 7 or best at No 6?

If you believe he is best at 6 then who would you have at No 7 Cronk or Widdop?

What stats? If you provide a link, I will follow it. But reliable stats this time. Not stats by some obscure site no one has ever heard of and at a wild variance to NRL, News LTD and Fairfax reported stats.

Good question. No question Cronk is a better 1/2 than Widdop but given his age and if the money being reported is even close to the mark. I'd prefer Widdop.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Nightingale now states that Benji wants more years and retirement is all crap talk. If that is the case happy days. Give him another year or 2 until Bird gets his retirement money from the Sharks and then comes to the Saints when he hits his prime in a few years.

For me the most interesting part of what Nightingale said was in reference to the awesome way Benji led the team around.

 

[_Johnsy]

you can just put him on ignore i think a few people have now.

great idea

 

[Old Timer]

What stats? If you provide a link, I will follow it. But reliable stats this time. Not stats by some obscure site no one has ever heard of and at a wild variance to NRL, News LTD and Fairfax reported stats.

Good question. No question Cronk is a better 1/2 than Widdop but given his age and if the money being reported is even close to the mark. I'd prefer Widdop.

As I said you do not read the entire post.

You said my question was a good one and you then avoided it and tried to get some comparison going between Widdop and Cronk.

The question was not whether Cronk is better than Widdop it is where do you prefer Benji in the 7 or in the 6 jumper?

 

[Vasilevsky]

As I said you do not read the entire post.

You said my question was a good one and you then avoided it and tried to get some comparison going between Widdop and Cronk.

The question was not whether Cronk is better than Widdop it is where do you prefer Benji in the 7 or in the 6 jumper?

6 though last season he did an outstanding job in the 7 so...... I guess either is ok.

 

[coast_dragons]

I don't see Cronk moving on but stranger things have happened.

 

[denis preston]

His age when available worries me if it is a 700k & above contract we are talking about.

 

[Miller was a legend]

On what basis do you say that? I was among the fiercest critics of supercoach Price from very early on (and was roundly denounced for it on this forum) so I'm hardly one who believes the club and anyone involved in it is immune from criticism. But from what I understand, during the first half a season Mary was in charge he stemmed the bleeding even if the situation didn't improve.

Last season he took a team many (including me) were tipping for, or thought would be lucky to escape the wooden-spoon (I always tip the Shonkies for the spoon. It works pretty well.) and turned them into a genuine premiership force.

As for not being able to recruit top players, I think it has much more to do with TPAs and brown paper bags than the coaching staff.

There are many things one can find to criticize about the club but from what I can see, your criticism of the coaching staff is unfounded at this stage.

and yet again you show your lack of knowledge for the game.

Works pretty well does it?

1967, 1969, 2014

 

[bottle]

and yet again you show your lack of knowledge for the game.

Works pretty well does it?

1967, 1969, 2014

Well, to be fair, no one has accused him of being smart.

 

[Old Timer]

For me the most interesting part of what Nightingale said was in reference to the awesome way Benji led the team around.

Actually thought it was the Captains job to lead the team around?

If your quote is the case then going from 1st to just scraping into the eight and losing to teams we should have well and truly spanked must be part of that because after all "HE WAS AWESOME IN THE WAY HE LED THE TEAM AROUND"

If he was doing the leading then you can't just take out the good and attribute it to him he must also be responsible for the crap parts of the attack as well.

Highlights how ineffective our on field management is with Captain of the bench or on the wing and other players taking over responsibility.

 

[gregstar]

Actually thought it was the Captains job to lead the team around?

captains are the pr / motivators

playmakers lead the team around.

 

[BennyV]

Actually thought it was the Captains job to lead the team around?

If your quote is the case then going from 1st to just scraping into the eight and losing to teams we should have well and truly spanked must be part of that because after all "HE WAS AWESOME IN THE WAY HE LED THE TEAM AROUND"

If he was doing the leading then you can't just take out the good and attribute it to him he must also be responsible for the crap parts of the attack as well.

Highlights how ineffective our on field management is with Captain of the bench or on the wing and other players taking over responsibility.

Yeah, nah. There is a difference between leading the team and leading the team around. Its the captains job to lead, whether by example of by voice, in that he should be driving his team and motivating them.

The job of the playmakers is to lead the team around the park; call the plays, direct the troops, and so on. I dont think either of our halves did that effectively, but I think that it because we are not working to their strengths for most of the year. Swap their roles, we may see improvement. That is, let Widdop move the team around, call the direction on the first 2-3 tackles, do majority of the kicking (the traditional halfback role) and let Benji pick his moments and take more control over the actual attacking plays.

 

[Maximus]

Means Benji is the better player and better valued player fullstop.

So Benji is a better player because he can play multiple positions and Cronk can't (although that just proves you know nothing of Cronk's history)? By that logic, Nathan Green is a better player than Cameron Smith because he can play centre, 2nd row and wing, whereas Smith can only play hooker.

Difference is Benji achieved EVERYTHING too early in his career. He dominated the comp by 25 and then lost the desire as he has stated a few times. The Tigers won the comp when they were not even spoken about as a threat. I know Cronk has achieved a lot as has JT but they never won a comp and captained their country to a World Cup and Four Nations at 25? I don't know many in the whole history of the game that have? Pretty rare feat which does not get the credit it deserves. If Benji was an Aussie he would have won a stack of Origins as well and been spoken about as an immortal but because he is not an Aussie he isn't even thought off. How many KIWI's are talked about as immortals? Exactly? Not saying the NRL has an issue with KIWI's but because they don't play origin they don't get as much of a chance to get spoken about as immortals.

Of all KIWI's to play the game Benji would be my pick if any are to become an immortal.

When did Benji captain his country to a world cup? Nathan Cayless was captain in 2008.

 

[Slippery Morris]

From Wiki....

In October 2008, Marshall was named in the final 24-man Kiwis squad for the World Cup.[29] Marshall captained New Zealand for the first time on 8 November 2008, in a World Cup match against England.[30] Marshall scored a try and kicked two conversions in the Kiwis' 2008 Rugby League World Cup final victory over the Kangaroos. It was the Kiwis first ever World Cup victory, in a game they were considered "massive underdogs."[31]

 

[BennyV]

From Wiki....

In October 2008, Marshall was named in the final 24-man Kiwis squad for the World Cup.[29] Marshall captained New Zealand for the first time on 8 November 2008, in a World Cup match against England.[30] Marshall scored a try and kicked two conversions in the Kiwis' 2008 Rugby League World Cup final victory over the Kangaroos. It was the Kiwis first ever World Cup victory, in a game they were considered "massive underdogs."[31]

Captained a group match. Cayless was captain for the tournament and final.

 

[Slippery Morris]

OK So he probably won the 4 nations as captain in 2010 not the World Cup. Still a great honour and all at age 25 wining the NRL, World Cup and 4 Nations as capt.

Most games as Captain

• 20 – Benji Marshall (2008–2012)
• 19 – Gary Freeman (1990–1993, 1995)
• 18 – Ruben Wiki (2003–2006)
• 18 – Mark Graham (1980–1983, 1985–1986)
• 15 – Roy Christian (1970–1972)
• 14 – Ken Stirling (1974–1975, 1978)
• 14 – Cliff Johnson (1957–1960)

 

[Old Timer]

Yeah, nah. There is a difference between leading the team and leading the team around. Its the captains job to lead, whether by example of by voice, in that he should be driving his team and motivating them.

The job of the playmakers is to lead the team around the park; call the plays, direct the troops, and so on. I dont think either of our halves did that effectively, but I think that it because we are not working to their strengths for most of the year. Swap their roles, we may see improvement. That is, let Widdop move the team around, call the direction on the first 2-3 tackles, do majority of the kicking (the traditional halfback role) and let Benji pick his moments and take more control over the actual attacking plays.

Benny,

My post was more about Vasil's claim (by stealth) re what a good job Benji did.

I was trying to point out that what he was trying claim as fantastic was actually pretty ordinary.

If fantastic playmaking "leading the team around the park" is finish 2nd bottom for points then god help us.

 

[Old Timer]

captains are the pr / motivators

playmakers lead the team around.

Captains also ensure the "game plan" is followed at critical moments and that does not happen if your captain is on the bench.

Then the strong "individual" personalities take over and that is not always in the best interest of the team.

When our captain is not on the field we either have a quick lead nowhere play or a pow wow while the opposition gets aligned in defence or take the 2 points. Not much of what we did is decisive or effective.

As I say if Benji leading the team around was fantastic and we finished 2nd last for points some people's idea of fantastic is vastly different to mine.

 

[Smurf]

Captains also ensure the "game plan" is followed at critical moments and that does not happen if your captain is on the bench.

Then the strong "individual" personalities take over and that is not always in the best interest of the team.

When our captain is not on the field we either have a quick lead nowhere play or a pow wow while the opposition gets aligned in defence or take the 2 points. Not much of what we did is decisive or effective.

As I say if Benji leading the team around was fantastic and we finished 2nd last for points some people's idea of fantastic is vastly different to mine.

Well said old timer and gregstar

 

[chemics]

Has cronk signed yet?��